verbal and emotional abuse from a spouse for 30 year and say nothing about it to anyone who could give her relief?

It could be that her self-esteem had been beaten down so low that she feels she deserves it. Or, she thinks that she has no way to support herself. Or, both.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It could be that her self-esteem had been beaten
> down so low that she feels she deserves it. Or,
> she thinks that she has no way to support herself.
> Or, both.
===============================
This is on the right track.
It seems not something from the intellect, and so cannot be solved with reason alone.
It comes from deeper, darker.

But it is not just women, and not just abusive marriage.
There are many abusive circumstances that are long endured.

Consider Mormonism, where we are taught to "bow the head and say yes." Remember that?
We are taught that any questioning, any doubt, arises from our own imperfection.
And so we turn doubt inward: I am not good enough, righteous enough, faithful enough.
I, alone, am defective.

We are indoctrinated to first doubt the self.
Trusting the self is the first hill to climb leaving Mormondom.

Dr. No Wrote:

> We are indoctrinated to first doubt the self.
> Trusting the self is the first hill to climb
> leaving Mormondom.

Wisdom, right there!


As I climbed that hill, and reached a prospect and looked around, I noticed how many non-Mormon things in the world requests us to “bow the head and say yes”. (Listing some of these invites being scrubbed.)

Human Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I climbed that hill, and reached a prospect and
> looked around, I noticed how many non-Mormon
> things in the world requests us to “bow the head
> and say yes”.
===============================

This is true.

And the truly dangerous are the ones to which we give ourselves willingly.
The seductive.

The ones we do not even see.

Does Mormonism carry the concept of original sin? I think this concept alone is very damaging. It makes you always feel that you are not good enough to be in God's company -- that you have to do certain things, that you have to be a better person, maybe even a perfect person. It took me many years of being away from Christian churches to see the ridiculousness of this concept.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does Mormonism carry the concept of original sin?
> I think this concept alone is very damaging. It
> makes you always feel that you are not good enough
> to be in God's company -- that you have to do
> certain things, that you have to be a better
> person, maybe even a perfect person.
================================
Useful as a weapon of power over another, is it not. Ingenious.

I do not know if Mormonism has this concept - but almost it would be unnecessary.
The Bretheren have mastered the art of inculcating original guilt in the subject.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) rejects the doctrine of original sin. The church's second Articles of Faith reads, "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression."[94] The church's founder Joseph Smith taught that humans had an essentially godlike nature, and were not only holy in a premortal state, but had the potential to progress eternally to become like God.[95] Latter-day Saints take this creed-like statement as a rejection of the doctrine of original sin and any notion of inherited sinfulness.[95] Thus, while modern members of the LDS Church will agree that the fall of Adam brought consequences to the world, including the possibility of sin, they generally reject the idea that any culpability is automatically transmitted to Adam and Eve's offspring.[96] Children under the age of eight are regarded as free of all sin and therefore do not require baptism.[97] Children who die prior to age eight are believed to be saved in the highest degree of heaven.[98]

The LDS Church's Book of Moses states that the Lord told Adam that "thy children are conceived in sin".[99] Apostle Bruce R. McConkie stated that this means that the children were "born into a world of sin"


Like most things in mormonism, this is subject to change at the whim of a lighted pen.

"My own fear bound me in chains of remorse and my self-loathing was the lock that shackled these chains; thus I was a prisoner of my own devices."

--Anonymous, Chapter VI, page CMXXIV, "The Big Book of Little People"

Human, I may get scrubbed here, or at least dog-piled, but I’ve know several people who *quietly endure.*

It seems that many get good mileage out of being a martyr. They use suffering as currency.

Not that I lack compassion, but when I start sensing the their mysery is the payoff, I give up.

Dr. No, I hope you can help these people—-I’ve never been able to.

kathleen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. No, I hope you can help these people—-I’ve
> never been able to.
===============================
I think I understand.
Yet am uncertain whether any may need help.

(Barely I am able to help myself!)

And consider, all of us, here, have escaped the mental enslavement that is Mormonism.
Somehow, against odds, we escaped. With scars perhaps, yet we escaped.
That is the miracle. And so here we are.

We are all of us okay, really; and doing the best we can, we are all doing okay, really - all things considered.

So here we all are, and in the end, it's kinda like the end of my favorite book:

Piglet:
Tigger's alright. Really.

Christopher Robin:
Of course he is.

Pooh:
Everybody is. Really. That's what I think. [sadly] But I don't suppose I'm right.

Christopher Robin:
Of course you are.

who were family or kind of family (my "husband" especially the first few years after he left). But when reading things about abuse, there is one thing that popped up in my mind: Bishopric interviews. Those were very traumatic to me and I assume a lot of kids. Then the shit they pulled on me when they were trying to get me to save my future "husband." It was as though I was the gay person and my "husband" was a god. It was my problem--not his, and I was told it was after he cheated and left me.

Dealing with church leaders was extremely traumatic to me. Any other abuse I've been through doesn't even come close to the trauma they put me through in my life.

When you are told for thirty years you will not only be destitute but in debt for attorney fees if you leave. The women have probably never been allowed to work, had no control over money and finances. They have been physically and mentally abused for decades.

That is why!

Why isn’t anyone wondering why a man would do that to a woman or their wife! Why blame the victim?

That's why my parents wanted me to get a good education -- so that I would always have the ability to support myself if needed.

Ya know that old story about how to boil a frog? That is how long term abuse happens. You are looking for a simple answer to a VERY complex problem. One of the best things to come out of the awareness of the issue is to start talking about it to kids in school. Teenage dating abuse is a lot more common than most people realize.