https://twitter.com/ingloriousgigi/status/1530159735583948800?s=21&t=kw_OflXimyRNAsZ5uxiJ0w

What a mess.


Of course a Mormon would do “soft swinging.”

MORmONism, gone off the rails is kinky AF!
Mormons have become increasingly uptight on the outside as the kinkiness of the abusive CULT becomes more well known.
Singing the praises of a serial sexual predator is pretty GD abusive to start with.
Once you’re ok with that, you can justify ANY behavior!

Throw in the Masonic throat slashing and spilling blood on the ground, and you get the Laferty Bros and Brian Mitchell.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2022 09:02PM by schrodingerscat.

And drinking! One comment was correct, when you get a bunch of repressed religious people you will find a lot of skeletons in the closet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2022 09:14PM by Susan I/S.

Holy cow. I'm going to need two boxes of popcorn -- and some of that Utah dirty soda. lol

I think this "soft swinging" is like "dirty soda". They want to do something they perceive as sin don't quite have the nerve to do it. I sure when this all shakes out, somehow it will all be the fault of the booze. The fact that they married young with little experience will not even cross their minds.

When I was reading a description of what their parties were like, I was thinking, sounds like your typical (nevermo) college party. They never had a chance to get it out of their systems before marriage and children.

swinging was a thing in lehi and Draper when we lived there. most the swingers I ever knew were doctors. doctors and dentists are kinksters.

Salt lake had a reputation for having the best backstage and hotel shenanigans. Ask anyone who was in a band or on a road crew.

The Draper swingers I knew of were couples where one or both of their parents were rich mormons. They were living in houses their parents bought for them and they were managing property their parents bought for investments. I call these trapped mormons. The don't have any real belief in the religion so they rebel because they can't leave because their parents will cut them off.

Threesomes end up in disaster and open marriages never work.

From what I've seen, you are correct. I don't give a tiny damn until they drag kids into it.

> I don't give a tiny damn until they drag kids into it.

+1

Rubicon Wrote:
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> Threesomes end up in disaster and open marriages
> never work.
Having participated in swinging threesomes I can tell you that if all the parties are having a good time then swinging works just fine.
It is only when guilt tripping is allowed on the scene that swinging doesn't work
We used to swing in Santa Cruz frequently and the mutual oral gratification was fabulous.
I heartily recomend swinging whenever possible

    I am so private a person that I would blindfold myself before masturbating.

    The first time I 'did' sex with the lights on, I kept one eye closed, in case the open eye was blinded.  It's still a habit...

    I also wear ear plugs so that I'm not offended by anything I say out loud.

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We used to swing in Santa Cruz frequently and the
> mutual oral gratification was fabulous.

Thank you for sharing that.

One problem is when feelings develop, which is what happened with this particular group of Utah swingers.

My personal opinion is that it is wise to do all of your needed adventuring *before* you marry and form a family.

Old but interesting.

https://kutv.com/news/local/dangerous-liaisons-the-popular-state-of-swinging-in-utah

Some relevant Reddit forums:

https://old.reddit.com/r/taylorpauldrama

https://www.reddit.com/r/momtokgossip

Oh lol, this sub thread on the first link. It is so hard for nevermo, non corridor people to understand.

Explain Mormon culture?

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some relevant Reddit forums:
>
> https://old.reddit.com/r/taylorpauldrama
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/momtokgossip


Welp.

These folks just wanted to have a presence outside Utah. Instead, they got a sh!tshow.

I honestly don't get the whole influencer trend. Ordinary moms are opening up their lives to the public. Well, in this case, it came back to bite.

One born every minute.

These people aren't "mormons". They're no more Mormon that Real Housewives are Real Housewives.

I've always found it fascinating that there is this persistent rumor of "swinging" in Utah. It's always whispered about. People "know" it's going on, but nobody can every really pin it down.

It is everywhere. The rumors of the rich hiding swinging clubs.

Swinging clubs were popular in NYC until the AIDS scare. Plato’s Retreat even advertised on television.

https://youtu.be/kt8g81n7mz0

I lived in 80’s New York. I've seen it all. The only place more weird is Utah. Ha! Ha!

Devoted Exmo Wrote:
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> These people aren't "mormons".

Heck, they don't even look human. And the swinging might be accidental since the women all look interchangeable.

That is one thing I always found fascinating about Utah. People don't just copy fashion trends, they clone them. I guess it's related to the conformist ideals of perfection that permeates the culture. And yes, it makes people kind of interchangeable.

Devoted Exmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess it's related to the
> conformist ideals of perfection...

I suspect a lot of it -- like most willful conformity -- is rooted in insecurity. "If I look like everyone else then I'll be accepted and not criticized, right?"

There's a lot to that idea that if you don't stand out, you won't be criticized.

Plus Utah women have their own (rather bizarre) fashion trends, such as wearing short sleeved T-shirts under sundresses.

Devoted,
I felt the same way you did until I talked with an old girlfriend from Utah. She explained the whole process and yes it was Draper and sometimes Ogden. Swinging is not my bag but I was fascinated by the whole thing and had lots of questions. She got out of the whole mess in 8 months, divorced her husband and stopped the drugs.

I still doubt it's mormons actually swinging. Do I believe married couples are messing around. Yes. Do I believe they generally end up divorced. Yes. Do I think your average Elders Quorum President and his Primary teacher wife are slinking off to swinger parties in Draper, no. Not really.

I agree, I'm not implying they were Mormons and certainly not elders and such. I'm sure the story evolved from, they were Mormons as kids or their dad was in the bishopric to "it's Elders swinging".

That, I believe.

It goes on probably more than you think. My wife and I ended up at a key party in two different states we lived in. One was with Mormon neighbors in Draper, Utah and the other was at a doctors house in Littleton, Colorado. We left with each other on both occasions. Not our thing. Seems to be a fetish for some but open marriages just don’t work. Divorce lawyers love it I’m sure.

Had my mind blown at a dinner party in South East Salt Lake.

I told my Non-Mo friend about this, he lives with an ex-mo steady girlfriend, they verified it goes on a lot in their neighborhood, with less than valiant mormons.

The people who swing usually are very materialistic and money focused. Very keep up with the Jones types. They also like to drink. I think it’s really unhappy people rebelling for a thrill. I think that’s the psychology of it. Add a strict religion in and the urge to experiment with rebellion is even greater.

It can get real screwball.

Devoted Exmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These people aren't "mormons". They're no more
> Mormon that Real Housewives are Real Housewives.
>
> I've always found it fascinating that there is
> this persistent rumor of "swinging" in Utah. It's
> always whispered about. People "know" it's going
> on, but nobody can every really pin it down.

May not count as swinging, but I do know of two cases of people belonging to the "multiple earthly probations" group. These are TBM men, but believe our spirits are sent back to earth multiple times to continue to grow. They use this belief, and the belief that temple marriages are eternal, to justify their having multiple partners. They believe that the spirit has revealed to them that they were sealed to another woman in a prior earthly probation, so that allows them to have a sexual relationship with them in this life. One of these cases was recent (as in Spring 2022) in Davis County, Utah and the wife did not want to be a part of it, so it resulted in divorce. The other case was in Europe, and both the husband and wife believed in it, and were trying to convince some young women of the Stake that they had been sealed to the husband in a prior probation to entice the girls in to a sexual relationship.

Again, this whole church is founded on that kind of behavior. It's entirely believable. But it's not swinging. It's coercion. Joe was a master of it.

(and other various leaders) and he was telling me about the swingers in Cache Valley AND the high school girls who had a trailer they were using to prostitute themselves to leaders around Cache Valley. Most of their clients were leaders. This was then 1970s.

Nothing surprises me. A missionary who served in Polynesia said members wanted him to get their daughter pregnant because they viewed Caucasian DNA as superior and wanted it in their bloodline. Not just members but that was the general attitude in the community. I think it was the Solomon Islands this was going on.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing surprises me. A missionary who served in
> Polynesia said members wanted him to get their
> daughter pregnant because they viewed Caucasian
> DNA as superior and wanted it in their bloodline.
> Not just members but that was the general attitude
> in the community. I think it was the Solomon
> Islands this was going on.

Yes; that’s the essence of brainwashing.

Go to Southeast Asia and boring, homely men who couldn’t get laid here are called handsome. They want a mixed baby to return to the US with.

They kept telling me in Vietnam, “Oh, you have right skin. You have right skin.” I thought, “Weird” each time they said this. Towards the end of the trip, my second tour guide eventually ended up telling me that they were saying that I have white skin and that’s a positive.

I spent three years in British Hong Kong as a kid but none of that was going on there. China was closed off and Vietnam was a place you definitely didn’t want to go to. The war had just ended. We had boat people who would show up in the harbor trying to get into Hong Kong. You would see these boats just packed with refugees. I wondered how many of those boats sunk in the open ocean and how many people died. They weren’t allowed in Hong Kong. I don’t know where they ended up. But we were just a little island surrounded by communism and people were risking their lives to get to us.

That’s what I remember. The late 70’s was definitely different times but it seems like communism and fascism are both on the March again and another Cold War is starting.

The problem then, and now, is oversimplification of geopolitics.

"Communism" was falling apart at the time. In the late 1960s relations between Moscow and Beijing were so bad that China and the Soviets fought a few undeclared large-scale battles along their joint border; and China stopped letting the Soviets ship equipment to their allies, the North Vietnamese, overland. When the US and the Soviet Union came close to reaching a deal on the war in late 1967, the Chinese reacted by supporting their ally, the Vietcong, in the Tet offensive in early 1968, which made it impossible for Washington to continue negotiating a ceasefire.

In 1972 Nixon drove a wedge between the USSR and China, fracturing the supposed unity of the international communist movement. When the US finally withdrew in 1975, China's allies in Cambodia launched a war against Vietnam, whom they feared wanted to unite Indochina under its auspices as the region had been united under France. Part of that war was Pol Pot's pogrom against the Vietnamese community within Cambodia whom he feared might function as a fifth column for Hanoi. That led to the war between the two countries that lasted through 1978 and the Chinese invasion of Vietnam in February 1979--an action unwittingly supported by the clueless Carter administration's recognition agreement with Beijing in December 1978, which prevented the soviets from supporting their ally Vietnam.

There are two important points about that. First, the boat people you encountered were almost entirely Vietnamese who had lived in Cambodia and were displaced by Pol Pot between 1976 and 1978. Besides Hong Kong, they washed up in refugee camps on Palawan in the Philippines, in Thailand, Malaysia, and even Australia. Tens of thousands of them would be stuck in those camps for decades; two generations of children would be born in those collections of hovels. Second, there was no international "communism" then or anytime since. Wars between the communist powers were at least as intense, and certainly more frequent, than between them and the "free" world.

With that background, I'm wondering what you mean by communism and fascism being on the march today. China rejected communism in that same Third Plenum in 1978 that confirmed the decision to recognize the US as well as the imminent invasion of Vietnam. The reason the Chinese economy has done so well since then is precisely because it embraced capitalism. Nor is modern Russia communist; rather, it is a kleptocratic form of capitalism.

Sure, we may be facing a new "Cold War," but it isn't between capitalism/fascism and communism: it is between various forms of capitalism under increasingly authoritarian/fascist leaderships. The wave across the world is towards the latter, not the former. In the US and parts of Western Europe there is definitely a proto-fascist tendency, but what you appear to term "communist" is really just attempted movement back towards the more egalitarian politics and economics of the 1950s--when the highest marginal tax rate in the US was 93%. Did that make Eisenhower and Nixon communists???

And "Cold War" doesn't need to be between different ideological systems: it more typically is between similar regimes fighting over concrete economic and geopolitical interests.

and (relatively) nice when this sort of struggle is external to the border . . . and when there is at least a common understanding on the nature of reality.

The chaos then seemed oddly tidier somehow

Thank you.

My belief, long held, is that whether talking about science or politics or history it is always best to start with facts rather than conclusions. There are always charlatans, who recognize the human appetite for simplicity and feed it to them in the form of lies about underlying reality. Most of the time those lies are intended to manipulate others to advance the charlatans' own interests.

There is no doubt that China, Russia, and the domestic purveyors of disinformation represent potent threats to us all. But we shouldn't just accept their skewed assumptions about reality and debate within that framework since it by definition inclines people towards their favored conclusions. Instead, we must do the difficult work of identifying the facts and reasoning from them to logical agenda.

More particularly, we may well be heading towards a Cold War, but that phrase itself implies a communist/free world dichotomy that is inapplicable to today's circumstances. What we are dealing with now, at least internationally, is less an ideological war than a new version of the centuries-old struggle against authoritarianism. If we get the facts right, we are more likely to arrive at effective strategies for solving the problem.

I always start with the Conclusion because I learned how to think and analyze everything through the wondrous ways of the beloved Correlation program of the Church. I had the peculiar blessing of having my brain baptized and washed by immersion, not sprinkling, to think according to the way that the marvelous Brethren tell us to think and obey.

In the meantime these pesky exmormons are missing out on the blessings of this wondrous gospel. For example, you don’t even get to enjoy Prozac while doing chapel toilet cleaning assignments to clean up the Lord's holy poops and instead get stuck having to worry about spending all that extra money you have to burden yourselves with because you don't do tithing.

By starting with the conclusions I am just following the correlation program. Then its a matter of picking the pieces of information that feel good and support the conclusion. I would analyze this process more but my brain has been washed clean of any analysis ideas that try to interfere with obedience to the beloved Brethren.

Hah! For too long we've been subjected to EOD's irreverent humor and lacked the TBM sincerity we need to counterbalance it.

It's nice to have you back, Elder!

As if we needed another excuse for the Provo soak.

I call it boring sex. I never bought it. A hard cock and a wet vagina is going to create some grinding and a young man is going to blow his load pretty quick. It’s not going to take much. Mother Nature at work here. Discipline goes out the window when you are hot and horny.

The reality is some Provo girls are going to end up at Planned Parenthood to get the end result removed.

I really cringe at what people put on social media. The technology was invented by the US Defense Department. It was designed to gather data on people and the social media companies can claim any information you put on their platform as their property and sell it.

People post like they are in a confessional or in a psychiatrist office. It’s crazy

Oh we all love dirt because it’s nice to know someone else has screwed the pooch harder than we have or we aren’t alone.

I agree. When my friend was telling me about swinging, one part of me said, "this is messed up" while the other side said, "I want to hear more".

Guess which voice was your penis . . .

I remember the coarse thrill that went through me at an EQ function in Lakeview Ward when an elder, after the closing prayer yelled, “Alright, all the men throw your key rings into the hat and you ladies line up to see who you go home with!”

He was joking and my penis was sad.

Sorry Elderdog, that wasn't the case, it was actual curiosity.

It’s Pandora’s box. I never opened it myself but I”ve seen the results of those who did. Total train wreck. Curiosity definitely will kill the cat.

Some years ago I bought a computer from a person. He needed money ASAP. He had not uninstalled some old p2p-software but he had tried to delete all content he downloaded. But there was a index he had forgotten to remove (it was easy to miss it) and on it there was a list with all the consensual BDSM movies he had downloaded.

The digital world leave traces and you really have to know your stuff to be safe.

Personally I do not understand why some couples take pictures of their bed room life. To risky.

Yup. But today it’s so easy to doctor stuff you can just say it’s fake news. Ha! Ha!