The information is out there. I think there's more evidence that the church and its leaders have been lying and deceiving the members than the gospel really brings life changing blessings.

I think most of us agree that those still active in the church will stick with it to the end, no matter how many facts are presented. Their feelings trump their thinking.

I tend to agree. It is no long 1998 and the information was hard to come by, it is right there and those who don't know are either just isolated or choose to ignore.

It is just interesting to see how things change from those still on the inside.

As new people depart, they encounter it all as new to them. So for newly departed, there is a purpose.

dogbloggernli is rite ~

They are not aware of the rabbit hole. For those that stumble across it, watch that first step.

I consider the End Game of the church to be must see TV!

I hope to hang around long enough to see the church visibly begin to unwind.

You should do all you can, Jesus, to stay young.

Begin taking walks, learn to serf, get a few tatoos, maybe start drinking espresso.

And for heavens sake, stop whining and get that nose ring you've been eyeing so intently. Septuagenarian women LOVE those things!

Today I read a 1988 article by the church trying to defunk the "myth" of native Americans arriving over the bering strait.

Their arguments were:

The blood type ratios were wrong. Comparing the ratio of native Americans with type O blood with the ratio of "native Siberian" with type O blood.

Second. The Bering Strait "flooded" before the ice sheets "melted" so it was impossible to come that way.

35 years later we have better info but the church still argues against DNA results, the pseudo science of archeology and carbon dating.

Just for reference. Over 100 years ago Egyptologists debunked the book of Abraham in full page newspaper adds. Didn't matter.

You will note that they have largely given up on “scientific” arguments. A few apologists are blowing on those embers, but you will not see it in the official magazines.

They don’t try to debunk the science. They simply ignore it and hope investigators or members don’t bring it up, I think the technical term for that is “lying by omission.”

Also note that two thirds of baptized Mormons have left, formally or informally, so it is clearly not true that nobody leaves. Most of us left.

It makes sense that the church would not express respect for science. The central tenet of Mormonism is inspiration, direct access to truth. Suggesting that mundane disciplines are relevant as alternative or complementary approaches merely dilutes the church's authority.

If it’s the wrong answer, the church doesn’t care how scientists managed to come up with it.

Those scientists should be given nose rings and then blood atoned!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2022 09:39PM by Lot's Wife.

Heartless Wrote:
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> Second. The Bering Strait "flooded" before the ice
> sheets "melted" so it was impossible to come that
> way.

Hold on, one of their arguments was "they couldn't have crossed water to get here"? Did they think this through?

Hahaha!

A lot of people get social benefit from cojcolds, employment, inheritances, friends, but those that find themselves as squares trying to fit into a round hole will struggle, a whole new generation is constantly coming of age too. So the work never ends.

+1

I believe that what most attracted me to mormonism is that the females either had, or would develop, secondary sexual physical attributes.

In my youth I found this to be very comforting… along with the mormon female penchant for feigning modesty.

The first thing that shook me, and hence my name here, was when it was found that American Indians didn't have the DNA expected from who the mormon church told me they were all my life.

I remember from my childhood BYU having, "The Lamanite Generation" and "Lamanite week." So it was a shock that people Native of the Americas had nothing in common with Laman from the Mormons.

Though things might not be shocking anymore, when they've been preached not to consider any, "Anti-Mormon" things at all, it will still be shocking to many who finally see it.

Agreed.

But things have definitely changed from 10-15 years ago. Back then people were still emotionally engaged. There were posters on New Order Mormon who did conference reviews, others who wrote alternative lessons, and of course the NOMs themselves who wanted some intermediate status between active and ex.

There was also, here and at other boards, constant surprise at the latest doctrinal reversal, the new hypocrisy, the latest purge. Now, by contrast, there's virtually nothing the church could do that would surprise us. Moreover there are very few people who think NOM-ism is possible let alone desirable.

Even the members have lost interest, as attested by lack of interesting debate about doctrine or history. What's the point in studying scriptures that the church is constantly reinterpreting and de-emphasizing? Does anyone ever return from a Sunday meeting and say, "Wow, that was amazing?" It's no wonder that the percentage of young Mormons who want to go on missions has crashed.

The church may not be dead, but it is surely moribund.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> ...The church may not be dead, but it is surely
> moribund.

Indeed, like all of us, it too will someday die.

I dunno, we followed the evidence to its logical conclusion, what makes you think others won’t?

Nothing. I think we have learned people are just going to do what they are going to do. What their actual belief is definitely is hard to determine. I don’t think most people even know what they really believe in. Actions are usually determined by habit, social traditions, wanting to get something from others ect…. Very few people are self-motivated. Most people are followers.

That’s what the church is. A gaggle of followers that stay because it’s easier to stay than to leave.

A ton has been said about the church. You could waste your whole life reading and listening to it all.

Leaving the church is not easy if you have long family and social ties to it. If it was easy this would not be called The Recovery Board. Followers don’t leave the church. Followers stay in the pack. Is the church in trouble? Is it going to implode? Not anytime soon. It’s going to remain a thing in the Intermountain west and it will continue to be a big thing and remain there. Is it going to grow? Nope. It might in isolated parts of the third world.

You can’t fix stupid but hopefully you can jump off of it and get out of it’s way.

I am quite astonished over the 100 billion dollar rainy day fund. With that much money the church can never end. No matter if everyone knew that the church is false. Who would get the money if the church would close? Who could make the church close?