Hello everyone, I’m pretty sad here today. I’m a single mom with one son that is 17. Because of different circumstances in life and struggles out of my control my son has been living with his grandmother (my mom) for the past few years. She is very much in to the church. She and my sister are trying to pressure my son to go on a mission. I am an ex member resigned in 2018 by choice. Thinking of him going on a mission breaks my heart. Such a waste of time and money. I am not sure if he really wants to go because he does spend weekends at my home where he doesn’t go to church nor asks to go. I feel like there isn’t much I can do
If my family tries to talk
Him in to going. He goes to seminary also where I think he is being talked in to it. I feel so bad like I have no say where he doesn’t live with me. I talk to him about it and he says he doesn’t know what he is going to do yet. Any advice or even comforting words? Thanks in advance!

It sounds like he is not all that into the church itself. I'm guessing he figured out some hot girls are available if he plays along.

It might be something time will solve. If he sees the sales tactics used by the church, he might catch on what the church is about ($$). Just maybe he will learn a language that would be a plus in life. A lot of 18 year old kids are not horribly motivated to be good students if he decides to go to college. Some maturity can help with school too. OK, that's all the positive stuff I can offer.

I know it is a huge disappointment and worry that he will get sucked up into the cult life. I suppose you can be a positive force in his life in other ways. Let him know you are there for him if he decides he needs a way out of a mission. Plant small ideas in conversations that might make him think. For example, what investments the church buys might make him resent living like a poor rat on a mission. Mention things that upset you like needing a male priesthood holder to be a middleman between you and God. Is he comfortable with that? Ask if he would read books the church discourages members from reading and why. Good luck. The church knows how to hook them young and hormones don't help. A lot of people here understand.

"I'm guessing he figured out some hot girls are available if he plays along."

Exactly why I went to seminary.

Thank you for the encouragement! I’ve struggled with lots last five years including homelessness (why my son started living with my mom.) but this is one of the hardest things I have to deal with.
Doing much better now have stable employment and housing by the way! :)
And I will also support my son and love him no matter what decision he makes regarding a mission. It doesn’t stop it from breaking my heart though for him

Pat yourself on the back for digging out of that situation. I can't imagine how hard it must have been for you. I hope things continue to improve for you.

Over time, I bet your son will come to admire you for what you had to overcome in life. Life can be hard with lots of twists and turns.

I think it was an underhanded move by the Gerontocracy to lower the mission age to 18. The church has a way of making the kids think they are choosing the mission for themselves. The specialized style of language is an art many con artists use. That way he doesn't feel like he is being coerced when he is. Few want to go. For me the mission was just automatic. I never even thought about not going because that had always been t "just what you do" when you hit 19.

On the other hand he spends week-ends with you and doesn't even go to to church. How great is that! Sounds like a good bond to me. Building on that will be everything--mission or not.

For me the mission was a huge eyeopener. I saw a whole world I never knew existed and it opening me up in ways that would eventually lead to me leaving the Mormons in the dust. You never know. Could go either way. But a Mom who loves him like you do is always going to win the game in the end.

Oh thank you so very much for your kind words!

“The church has a way of making the kids think they are choosing the mission for themselves.”

This reminds me of the times I’ve seen parents saying how proud they are that their eight year old child “chose” to be baptized.

Dallin Oakes did not serve a mission. He stated he had other priorities like getting a law degree. How many of the first presidency served missions? I believe none of them, but you might want to check. They are asking your son to do something they themselves refused.

Thomas Monson didn't go either. He was in the Naval Reserves.

Russel Nelson didn't go as well. WW2 was a factor somehow.

To me, the thing that would help your son who is considering going is some support with his life. He needs a soft place to fall if he makes mistakes. A place to call home while he figures out his situation.

I'm sure your Mom is making it clear that she will not let him live with her if he decides not to go on a mission. Her love is conditional. He needs to see that. The people in his life who "love" him may only do so if he behaves the way they want. This is controlling and control is bad. Control is the last thing you want in a relationship with anyone. He needs to get rid of the controlling people in his life.

I'm sure you will let him know if he goes and wants to come home early you will be there for him in whatever way you can.

I deeply regret going on my mission. I hope he doesn't have to deal with that.

praydude Wrote:
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> To me, the thing that would help your son who is
> considering going is some support with his life.
> He needs a soft place to fall if he makes
> mistakes. A place to call home while he figures
> out his situation.

. . .

> I'm sure you will let him know if he goes and
> wants to come home early you will be there for him
> in whatever way you can.

Excellent advice, as always. Be there for your son: that's by far the best move.

He safely attended business college and then University as a pre-med. After he got his medical degree he served during the Korean war as a military hospital inspector, spending most of his time in the United States. Most men his age signed up in 1942. He was the same age as my dad who volunteered for the Army Air Corp to avoid being drafted for the Navy, which actually meant destined to be a Marine to the Pacific.

i would tell him that there is a lot of pressure in the Mormon church for young men to serve missions, but that if he doesn't want to go on one, he doesn't have to. Tell him that essentially he would be acting as a door-to-door salesman for the church. Ask him, is the church something that he really wants to be selling for the next two years? I would also tell him that Mission Presidents and church authorities don't always treat the missionaries kindly. Sometimes the missionaries are blamed and harangued for a lack of converts.

Talk to him about what he *does* want. Does he want to go to college, trade school, or the military? Does he want to look for a position as an apprentice? See if you can get him to articulate his hopes and dreams.

I would also offer him a home with you over the next few years should he need one. He may want to finish up at the high school where his grandmother lives, but after that, he may need a soft landing with you for a number of reasons. Talk to him about ways that you could offer support as he makes the transition into adult life, even if it's just offering a place to live while he goes to the local community college.

Your son almost certainly has no idea what a mission is like. Everything he dislikes about the church is going to be dialed up to 11. Missions are designed to break people's independent will and spirit.

It sounds like you have the chance to speak with him 1-on-1 without your mother present. He needs to know beforehand what's waiting for him out there.

- Every moment of his time will be controlled. He'll be told when to get up, go to bed, when to eat, etc. He'll be told what to wear, say, read, and think. They'll attempt to take away his individuality by discouraging the use of his given name and instead have him call himself "Elder." (A sure sign of a cult.)

- He'll be told where and with whom he has to live, with no say in the matter. If his assigned companion is abusive or otherwise a complete jerk, too bad. He'll be told to suck it up and work harder.

- He won't be allowed any time to himself. He and his companion must be together 24-7 to monitor each other's behavior and ensure that each is in compliance with the mission rules.

- He won't be doing much if any baptizing, and the mission leaders will blame him for that, even if he's doing everything he possibly can.

- A high number of returned missionaries still have recurring nightmares about finding themselves on a second mission, even 30-40 years after they have returned home.

Many missionaries jump ship in the MTC when they realize what the church demands. Many, many others leave early, well before their two years is up. Leaving early carries less of a stigma than it used to. All is not lost, even if he gets into the field.

The best thing you can do IMO is support him in every way. Your unconditional support vs. grandma's conditional love will be obvious. Play the long game here, and the odds are heavily in your favor.

The first line of this post should be on bill boards all over Utah and anywhere in the world there are Mormons.

Missions are a way of trapping young adults in the CULT. By compelling every young man to serve a mission, they make it a requirement for any young Mormon to have served a mission, to prove his worthiness to the young women in the CULT. As long as young men follow the prescribed plan, they continue to climb the ladder. Temple marriage to a Molly Mormon wife, education, career, kids, 3BR rambler on a Cuk-de-Sac with a minivan in the driveway and a whole tribe of kids.
And you try to get answers to your serious questions and it turns out there are no honest answers as a Mormon, only lies, appeals to authority, myths, group think, tribalism, racism, sexism, homophobia. And you put your foot down and refuse to allow one more generation to be lied to about this abusive CULT, that teaches children to sing the praises of a serial sexual predator who had the morals of an alley cat.

Wow thank you everybody for the much needed advice and support! I really appreciate every helpful reply!

Dear Sad Mom,

My mom did not want me to go, but she lived in an era where it was unthinkable for her to tell me as much.
I have been inactive, while all four of our sons served missions. I told each of them they didn't have to go, but if they did, I wanted them to know missions are difficult. Mine certainly was!
I told them, if they dedided to go, I wanted them to have a good experience, and return healthy and happy. And if they ever wanted to come home early, I would come get them; not just send them money. I hoped such a message from an apostate parent, would help them decide.
And I faithfully communicated with each, at least weekly (before current communication rules allow phonecalls etc).
In the end, active spouse and inactive self, traveled to each mission to fetch the son at the end of their 2-year service.
Three of the four had mostly good experiences, and the fourth is doing fine with marriage, children, and career with some baggage.

Sadmom Wrote:
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> Wow thank you everybody for the much needed advice
> and support! I really appreciate every helpful
> reply!

Most of us have been there, Sad, on one side of the issue or the other. So we know what you are going through and wish the best for you and your son.

Share this one FACT about missions with your son. I was told by a general authority of the church (I won't mention his name because he's a family friend and still alive serving in the Quorum of the Twelve) that he often feels sorry for missionaries because he knows how tough missions can be. He said the church wasn't growing very fast and it was mostly the members having children that allowed the church to grow. In short the missions were not creating the Long-Term converts in any great number. I was then told the church sends young men on missions to convert the young men themselves. If a young man serves a mission he's more likely to stay in the church, marry a member of the church in the temple and bring another generation into the church. If young men did not serve missions they more likely would drift away while attending college or doing military service and end up with a non member.

So the church is pushing your son to serve a mission because the church wants him and his children he will have in the future to be in the church. It's all about the church. Not him.

One of my favorite quotes of all time applies here:

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Edit: To be clear, I'm not at all saying your mom is coming from a place of hate. From what you've said, I don't believe that's true. I think another opposite of love could be disconnection from another's feelings in favor of perceived morality, or in short, "shoulding" on people.

I'm going to try not to be too heavy on the advice here, but he's being pushed, hard, from one side already. I think the last thing you want to do is start pushing from the other side. That isn't going to help him shake off the pressure, center himself and make a self-full decision (ie, not selfish, but also not selfless).

This situation kind of reminds me of my college investment club. The prof in charge decided on a president by fiat, but left the vice pres position up for vote. I tossed my hat in the ring, along with several others.

He gave each of us a couple minutes to make our pitch to the members. I was among the last to make my pitch, and after having heard the others use their full two minutes listing their accomplishments and reciting their resumes, I stood up, said, "I'm [eternalsmile], I'll do the job." and sat back down. I won by a landslide.

Sometimes less is more, but more to the point, sometimes it's less about saying what you want them to know, and more about knowing what they don't want to listen to. They need us to see what they're feeling (such as boredom in my case, or pressure in your case) and not contribute to the problem. They'll like us more for doing that, and any salesman worth his salt will tell you when you're trying to influence a decision, them liking you is 80% of the battle.

It may be counter-intuitive, but I'd encourage, rather than "talking to him", you very willfully *listen* to him. Be interested in his thoughts and feelings and process. Ask what factors he's considering, what needs he's weighing, what specific feelings he's having. Empathize. Ask him if he feels pressure to go or not to go. Ask where the pressure comes from... bishop, YM leaders, friends, your mom... you... even from within himself (is he "shoulding" on himself? Internalized pressure can be the most difficult kind to deal with). Ask him what happens if he sets the pressure aside and thinks of the decision solely in terms of what he would enjoy. Resist the urge to weigh in with your opinions or thoughts or input unless he pointedly asks for them.

In short, from his perspective, the most helpful thing you can likely do is just to listen and connect with what's already going on inside him. You can help him deal with that just by listening and empathizing, and from there he'll see more clearly and be more able to make a decision based on his own values.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2022 06:21PM by eternalsmile.

Indeed.

Came across this little gem this morning and thought it would make a nice addendum to my earlier comments:

"Thinking that we know what is better for others becomes a subtle way we do violence. When we take it upon ourselves to "help" the other, we whittle away their sense of autonomy. Nonviolence asks us to trust the other's ability to find the answer they are seeking, and asks us to have faith in the other, not feel sorry for them. Nonviolence asks us to trust the other's journey and love and support others to their highest image of themselves, not our highest image of them. It asks that we stop managing ourselves, our experience, others, and others' experiences of us, leave the other person free of our needs, free to be themselves and free to see us as they choose."
-Deborah Adele, "The Yamas and Niyamas: Exploring Yoga's Ethical Practice"

I know the "Hot Girls" comment was made as a joke, but I think there is an important point. The Church and especially through Seminary and peer groups is very good at getting young women to influence boys to go on missions. Although it sounds very stupid the deciding factor for me going (I had sincere doubts about Jospeh Smith, B of M, Priesthood etc etc.). I went back to my home town when I was a freshman in college for my best friends mission farewell (these were big deals in the day). After the meeting an old girlfriend from highschool took me by the arm and asked me to go for a walk with her. She told me she had heard that at college I had a very serious girl friend and that I was not planning on going on a mission (I had just told the bishop that morning.) She told me that if I didn't go my girlfriend would lose all respect for me, knowing that it was what the Prophet commanded, and that no other LDS girls would have anything to do with me. There were other things she mentioned, but this is the part of the conversation that I think made me tell the Bishop, OK I'll go at the end of the summer.

So part of my advice is do what you can to suggest your son finds a non-TBM girlfriend and hangs out with non-mo peers. It is not the end of the world if he does go, it's happened to a lot of us here, and my Mission was my ticket for eventually having nothing to do with the Church.

Spencer W. Kimball when he was a prophet dedicated the Church building that was completed my junior year in high school. (The Church was on his former grandfather's land holdings) The Priest's quorum was assigned to be ushers and help Church security. I ended up blocking the door, and opening it for Kimball as he came into the building, he patted me on the shoulder and said something like "You young man are going to serve a powerful mission". He did the same thing to two of my friends who were blocking interior doors. At the pulpit he told the congregation and tons of other town folks, including teachers, and relatives, that those three young men I talked with have all committed to serving missions.

Now jump ahead two or three years and try telling the Bishop, hell no, I won't go.

Things to tell any LDS missionary (or anyone that does not want to be a missionary).

1. You are an ADULT. Think and act like it. As an adult, you make choices and you are responsible for those choices regardless of who influenced you to make the choice and regardless of what type of persuasion was used.

2. If you choose to discuss your sex life with someone who has ulterior motives, regardless of whether the discussion was supposedly in confidence, you can reasonably expect that someone to use that information to coerce you. Knowledge is power. The more someone knows about you, the more power they have over you. Confession in the LDS culture invariably comes back at you in the form of coercion.

3. You are a VOLUNTEER. As such, you are in a superior position. The LDS church is asking you for your help. If you chose to extend your kindness to the church by VOLUNTEERING to perform some kind of function, the church needs to understand its position as the recipient of charity. If any mission president, stake president, bishop or other so called leader makes demands of you, remind him that beggars can't be choosers and he is in no position to demand anything of you, AN ADULT VOLUNTEER.

4. Money + passport + clear thinking = freedom.
You are an adult, you are a volunteer, there is no binding contract. You can be a missionary on Sunday and a tourist the rest of the week if you so choose. You don't need their permission to be a missionary. You can go knock doors anywhere you want at anytime without anyone's permission, blessing, calling, or setting apart. You don't need anyone's permission to be a tourist at anytime. You can tour anywhere you choose at anytime. It's your belief system that both limits and empowers you.

5. In the United States, they cannot 'send' you home. They can only coerce you into agreeing to go home. In the USA, you have the option of telling the mission president you will go home on your schedule, not his. If he has trouble understanding that, I'm certain the local police will help him understand the you are a FREE ADULT, not an indentured servant.

6. I'm not sure about the visa requirements in a foreign countries as far as a mission president being able to send you home. Research the law before you go so you'll know what kind of legal power a mission president has in the country you are going to, but in the USA they cannot 'send' you home.

7. Take a credit card, a telephone calling card, and a photocopy of your passport with you. That's what any rational adult would do. DO NOT TELL ANYONE about them. They are your ticket out. Keep your options open.

8. Take care of yourself. Make sure you get enough sleep. Make sure you eat right. Make sure you are safe. Make sure you are healthy. Make sure you keep private matters private. That all sounds obvious. What isn't obvious to some missionaries is that obeying rules does not relieve one from natural consequences. If people around you are not allowing you to take care of yourself, they are not your friends. Simply tell them that you are not available for whatever it is they want you to do. If they as why, simply say you don't care to discuss that. Do not present your reasons for debate. You are an ADULT. You do not have to defend your reasons for your decisions. You do have to live in the environment you create with your decisions.

9. Print this out and take it with you.

One more thing. You know that story about putting fleas in a jar with the lid on and after awhile they'll only jump high enough to not hit the lid? When you take the lid off and the fleas won't jump out of the jar.

As long as you think of yourself as anything other than an INDEPENDENT ADULT, you will never jump out of the jar.

I really like what MissionaryMan wrote. Be sure to print it out and give it to your son if he decides to go. I believe this list would of helped me. I spent 2 years in Finland with 0 baptisms. (zero, in retrospect is good). Two years wasted with the added bonus of destroying my self-esteem.

I agree, Eric, it should perhaps become a sticky on the main page.