that the average wage is $283,000 a year plus their wonderful lunches and wine any time they want it. How many of us would jump at a job for $283,000?!?!?!
Those guys live in San Francisco. Their $283,000 becomes $170,000, at most, after taxes.
The cost of living there is extremely high. Google tells me that the average one-bedroom apartment is over $2,300 a month wile a two-bedroom unit rents at over $2,700. A year at $2,500 a month is $30,000, so we are down to $140,000. I have no idea what other expenses are in that area, but I'd guess $60,000 at a minimum, bringing total disposable income down to about $80,000. For that, they work 60 hours a week, which means they are paid about $26 on an hourly basis.
These are people almost all of whom have at least an undergraduate STEM degree from a great university and in many cases a graduate degree in engineering and/or an MBA.
Musk is smoking dope if he thinks he can make them work harder for what they get. Even in today's economy they have options.
Lot's Wife Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ... which means they are paid about $26 on an hourly > basis.
They've just announced here that a "living wage" (bare minimum) is $25.00/hr. So you'd have to make a lot more than that to be even marginally above basically just getting by.
On that, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to afford (or qualify) to buy a home. The average home in Vancouver costs $1.155M. Ouch. The average apartment rental is $2600.00/mth.
Even if you could manage that, you still have to eat, pay for transportation and maybe buy a warm coat every now and again.
In the medical field, some jobs (largely done by women) are currently advertising positions for $20.00/hr. Many women work at least two jobs just to get by.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2022 10:00PM by Nightingale.
Google tells me that the average home price in San Francisco, which includes a lot of small and old houses in some rough areas, is $1.5 million even after the recent decline.
The dirty little secret is that technology companies thrive by hiring brilliant young workers who hope one day to get rich but don't realize that they are now joining large, established, bureaucratic corporations who won't pay them well. When they eventually recognize that fact, they start looking for startups (rare and risky) or simply lower their expectations for life.
Meanwhile the success stories continue to appear in the media with enough frequency to entice the next class of highly-educated and competent lemmings to follow suit.
Not sure it's quite as harsh as your post implies. I retired from Silicon Valley in 2016. The late 90s was the last days of stock options (and a lot of fun) before going to RSUs. By the 2004 the fun was gone, and it became a real job. Up to my retirement, I still made a lot of money, great medical benefits and wife and I maxed out our 401ks. There are affordable areas to live in the bay area and if I went to the SF office, I took cal trains. The weather is great and we are oenophiles.
Note: we sold everything and moved to the Carolinas after retirement.
Well, Moe, if you were in SV in the 1990s, you are in a different class of worker. You presumably amassed decent money and a reputation during the Valley's heyday, ensuring that good high-paying jobs were always available.
As you note, the "fun" stopped in the aftermath of the Tech Bubble's implosion and has in the subsequent 20 years grown much more like typical corporate drudgery. But for those workers who, like you, were already established and had unique skills the situation was still quite good--and remains that way.
By contrast, today some 90% of *new* workers are headed for mundane jobs with long hours and vastly reduced financial potential. They're not going to make enough money to buy homes and, from what I hear, the daily commute (before and after COVID most workers had to go to their offices) is from places far afield and with terrible traffic.
The people cl2 refers to are not like you. They work such long hours that they must live in SF or SV, and they have enough income to find nice apartments but not enough to save realistically for homes. So they move to the Valley, work really hard for a few years in the hope of being discovered like a waitress in Hollywood, then lose hope and move away. In that sense the place is like NYC, where people go to work for great companies for a few years but cannot afford to stay.
Yes, the weather, wine, and scenery are great. But for the vast majority of new hires, those are temporary benefits.
>>In that sense the place is like NYC, where people go to work for great companies for a few years but cannot afford to stay.
That happened to my nephew. He made it into a very high-profile job within his industry in NYC (with the accompanying long hours,) but even then, had no hope of buying a home there. The pandemic made him rethink his career plans, and now he lives and works elsewhere. And he and his wife own their home now.
NYC broke me in any number of ways. But it was financially unviable for me in the long run as well.
Ah yes, the financial services industry. Start at what the world could consider a great salary but working that hard you have to spend more than most would and hence are left with very little at the end of each year.
In a place and job like that, you need $250,000 to live a basic life. Perhaps one in ten makes it big, the other nine move to Kansas and keep their marriages.
Ha! No, not financial services. My Ivy League M.B.A. friends had fewer problems with affording life in NYC. They could buy a condo and eventually a nice house out in the 'burbs.
My nephew was the number #4 person in the company that at the time, was not only at the very top of his industry in the U.S., but also the world (ranked #1 for the world.) He had 60 people reporting to him. And he was still renting in downtown Brooklyn for an absurd amount of money with no hope of buying a home.
Having lived in NYC, I understood his dilemma.
I still think that he will get to where he wants to go, just via a very different path than he first imagined. Leaving NYC is likely a long-term play for him. And I don't ever see him going back.
"By contrast, today some 90% of *new* workers are headed for mundane jobs with long hours"
Except for the late 90s, I would say it was long hours and mundane the entire time. Prior to about 1996, the long hours were kept at bay because cell phones weren't prevalent yet.
In the 21st century, if you want a long high paying career, you will work hard and have long hours. I'm sure there are exceptions.
"Well, Moe, if you were in SV in the 1990s, you are in a different class of worker. " No, I was the same worker I always was and I had to compete with the new young bucks. You can't rest on on your laurels.
I graduated with a EE studying vacuum tubes with a slide rule. When I retired I was working with ZettaByte architectures. I was just an average engineer, I had to work extremely hard my entire career and I had a little bit of luck.
When my wife and I retired, we told everybody we pulled each other over the finish line, bloody and with arrows in our back gasping for air.
Tribal seems very liberal and you won't have a barrage of Elon fanboy bros and bots clogging up everything like I've been experiencing.
It has some quirks which I think they will resolve, but it seems relatively easy to use.
The big complaint is that they can use your information. Honestly, I don't know how that is different from anywhere else. I don't share a ton of personal info.
I just joined Tribel. Great platform. Anyone who wishes to find me can search for "Happy Exmo". If you had a twitter handle (e.g., "@FinGenus") you may use the same one on Tribel.
1. Tap the navigation menu icon , then tap Settings and privacy. 2. Tap Your account, then tap Deactivate your account. 3. Read the account deactivation information, then tap Deactivate. 4. Enter your password when prompted and tap Deactivate. 5. Confirm that you want to proceed by tapping Yes, deactivate.
The cost of living there is insane compared to other parts of the US. My son has a good friend who was making $180k in San Francisco and left for a higher paying job in Detroit MI earlier this year. She was unable to save any money at $180k. Rent was $3800. A place to park her car - another $500/mo. I grew up in Detroit so I am no big fan, though it has likely improved since I lived there.
We had a lovely 2br 2bath, large patio with a view of the Golden Gate, gas fireplace, covered parking spot, separate storage apartment in the late 70s early 80s. Now in the same building I can only find a price for a 1br 1bath -$2895!
This is why I have zero desire for high tech to come in force to central Maryland. We have a very good quality of life here for not a whole lot of money. I don't want to see that ruined.
How badly do you need a job that requires your soul? How much money does it take to buy the bulk of your waking hours so that the job becomes your life and not just the means to provide for your life? High pay will never, ever compensate for being miserable every day, meeting the demands of an employer who expects commitment that can never be enough and who would let you go in an instant to protect his bottom line
Kentish Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How badly do you need a job that requires your > soul?
Good question.
It also applies to other facets of life. How badly do you need any particular relationship, pursuit, belief, endeavour, recreation, goal. It's a question worth asking oneself about how we're using time and it's one worth thinking about every now and again. Taking stock is often under-rated.
I agree with you, and evidently, so do many former Twitter employees. Some say that roughly 75% of the Twitter workforce has departed, and that entire, critically needed teams have been destroyed.
It was nice to easily access information from journalists, news media, authors, economists, scientists, etc. to see what they had to say all in one place. I liked having a scenic picture or cute pet mixed in too. It will definitely take more effort to find the input I like elsewhere. Overall, I agree that it's not going to negatively impact anything. There's plenty of drama elsewhere.
It's not easy, summer. I'm doing what I can old school. I look for their editorials, books and book reviews, blogs, podcasts, newsletters or anywhere I can find people I want to read about. Sometimes I google people I find interesting and find their sites. A lot of people I "follow" show up as guests on various podcasts.
I'm sure another central hub town square will arise. Everything has a season from AOL chats to Twitter.
"My self-driving Tesla crosses four lanes of freeway traffic in an attempt to jackknife an oncoming subaru. In the final seconds of my life, I’m filling out a captcha to try and regain control of the vehicle, but I don’t know which squares in the grid are “woke”