*






*

(Nothing)

That's the point.

Modern post-polygamy (legitimate sex with more than on woman during your lifetime!), post-priesthood ban (whites only refuge!), post-men becoming gods (endless celestial sex with a harem of goddesses on your own planet!) Mormonism doesn't offer anything.

It's bland, it's ersatz, it's boring.

It's just a fake religion that was started as a scam in the nineteenth century.

Today, it’s a billion dollar corporation that uses guilt to obtain investment capital.

You pay ten percent per your income for life to belong to a bland, boring cult just to be part of a "tribe."

Its main seduction is the promise that you will never have to grow up. As long as there is a God, or (if you are yourself a God) a God above you, then everything in your life is pre-determined and you never have to face the consequences of your decisions. That prospect is just too attractive for most people to resist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2023 10:10AM by slskipper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKNel1BF9h0


Enjoy until it gets banned -- can't have a girl playing a guy, you know :)

There will always be the “Us v. Them” element.

But there’s no longer the same value to the mormon “us” factor, oo it’s only attractive to much lower strata than in days past.

In other words, nowadays you have to be hurting for mormonism to be a step up, generally speaking.

...superiority above other humans. And a certain sector of the human population can't resist that.

Since Gospel means Good News in religious speak, how do you say Fake News in the same? That is what Mormonism offers and that is what they all offer.

Fake news is the equivalent of comfort food. But rather than damaging your body, fake news damages your personality even as it gives license to attack the most fragile.

"What, if anything, does Mormonism have to offer?
(Nothing) That's the point."

COMMENT: It's a little naive (not to mention arrogant, dismissive, disingenuous, etc.) to dogmatically declare that Mormonism has nothing to offer, when millions of Mormons willingly participate as members, and upon reflection would claim that Mormonism was essential to who they are, the meaning of their lives, and their happiness. So, when we are in the midst of anti-Mormon rage, it might be worth taking a closer look.

After all, even false ideologies all have at least one thing to offer: Community! And Mormonism certainly offers that in spades.

But Mormonism offers much more than mere community: First and foremost, it offers a worldview (the 'plan of salvation') that provides existential meaning to a life that is otherwise existentially final and meaningless. (i.e. 'We live, we die, and that's it.')

Plus, Mormonism offers the consoling benefit of belief in an interested Supreme Being that one can (they say) pray their questions to and receive answers. Even if such faith is merely psychological, it is not "nothing" in the calculation of what Mormonism has to offer. Hope is a positive, life affirming, and often motivational emotion, even if factually unsupportable.

In addition, in my experience TBMs (I mean really TBMs!) are for the most part astonishingly happy, notwithstanding the many burdens of their faith. In fact, it seems that the more committed they are to the Mormon doctrinal and historical narratives--and the more they are able to psychologically dismiss all challenges to their faith without tinge of cognitive dissonance--the happier they are. So, maybe happiness should be on our list.

The problem of Mormonism is not in its failure to offer *anything* to its member believers. Rather it is in its failure to offer anything that is actually true; or reasonably probable; or supported by any objective balance of evidence. Fortunately (or unfortunately), for most of us truth matters. For us, the consideration and weighing of evidence is a psychological imperative of belief itself, such that belief in Mormonism is just no longer an option. As such, Mormonism has nothing to offer *us*!

Yet, if we confuse this personal assessment with a more general assessment that Mormonism (or religion) has nothing to offer *anyone*, we have no chance in understanding what Mormonism, or religion generally, is really about and what its appeal is. Personally, I have found that most writers who set out to "explain" religion make this fatal error. In a context of vast existential uncertainty in the Universe--that science barely touches upon-- religion actually offers a great deal, if only we could 'buy it.'

Henry Bemis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "What, if anything, does Mormonism have to offer?
> (Nothing) That's the point."
>
> COMMENT: It's a little naive (not to mention
> arrogant, dismissive, disingenuous, etc.) to
> dogmatically declare that Mormonism has nothing to
> offer, when millions of Mormons willingly
> participate as members, and upon reflection would
> claim that Mormonism was essential to who they
> are, the meaning of their lives, and their
> happiness. So, when we are in the midst of
> anti-Mormon rage, it might be worth taking a
> closer look.
>
> After all, even false ideologies all have at least
> one thing to offer: Community! And Mormonism
> certainly offers that in spades.

I did mention tribalism, that's the same thing.

And you can find that from other groups who don't demand you pay 10% of your income for life to be admitted to the afterlife to participate.

That's fraud.

And you can find that from other groups who don't demand you pay 10% of your income for life to be admitted to the afterlife to participate.

COMMENT: Every 'community' or 'tribe' has its 'costs,' in one form or another. If you try to identify the 'best' or 'least intrusive' community by weighing costs, you will find that the costs of membership in any community--be it time, money, or simply an acknowledgment of shared beliefs--are directly related to its community or tribal benefit. The more you have to sacrifice, the stronger the community bond, and thus the community benefit. One of the main reasons why community, or tribalism is so strong in Mormonism is precisely the demands it requires. Community is NOT just a vehicle for social interaction, it is the psychological bond that is associated with a joint commitment to some ideology.

Oh, I don't know. The Roman Catholics have a strong "tribe" even though it's a big tent denomination that has a wide variety and activity level of adherents. Plus, mainline Christians tend to donate in the 1-3% range, with Catholics coming in at the lower end of that. But the Catholics have had two thousand years to perfect their game.

Henry Bemis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And you can find that from other groups who don't
> demand you pay 10% of your income for life to be
> admitted to the afterlife to participate.
>
> COMMENT: Every 'community' or 'tribe' has its
> 'costs,' in one form or another. If you try to
> identify the 'best' or 'least intrusive' community
> by weighing costs, you will find that the costs of
> membership in any community--be it time, money, or
> simply an acknowledgment of shared beliefs--are
> directly related to its community or tribal
> benefit. The more you have to sacrifice, the
> stronger the community bond, and thus the
> community benefit. One of the main reasons why
> community, or tribalism is so strong in Mormonism
> is precisely the demands it requires. Community
> is NOT just a vehicle for social interaction, it
> is the psychological bond that is associated with
> a joint commitment to some ideology.

Every community has "costs" but the mormon church has literal costs, 10% of your income, not to mention time and energy on endless meetings and janitorial services.

Community is wonderful, you can find it via an interest group, a low-demand religion, an ethnicity, sport, volunteer work. Community through a shared conscious choice to commit time and resources to it. MOST active TBMs are born to it. That's not a choice, any more than birthright citizenship is a choice, and by the time they are adults, extricating themselves comes at a "cost" and likely a cost.

Mormonism provides all the community of a MLM, afterall, there are those for whom Amway was a lifestyle. It's conditional, high pressure, high demand, high cost.

Obviously mormonism offers something to those who are willing to suspend disbelief, or are intellectually incurious, or bound to the superstition, or many other reasons mostly related to fear on some level. If it offered so much, people wouldn't be happier when they make it out to the other side, as displayed by most people here.

Like Henry, I remember the good ol' days of mormon tribalism, when the Book of mormon and the Minnie Pearl of Great Price* confirmed that White People were able to and should discriminate against the seed of Cain and Lamanites because that's the way ghawd wanted it.

Because, as we were taught, even being a second-class mormon was better than being a first-class 'not-a-mormon.'




*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnie_Pearl

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like Henry, I remember the good ol' days of mormon
> tribalism, when the Book of mormon and the Minnie
> Pearl of Great Price* confirmed that White People
> were able to and should discriminate against the
> seed of Cain and Lamanites because that's the way
> ghawd wanted it.
>
> Because, as we were taught, even being a
> second-class mormon was better than being a
> first-class 'not-a-mormon.'
>
>
>
>
> *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnie_Pearl

Apt pun, since she always had the price tag hanging from her hat.

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the Mormon whore

A celestial fiefdom and your own planet.

Nothing.

I don't even think they are the one true church anymore. They are the church that provided the framework to return to HF or the church that allows you to experience to fullness of the atonement.

There are plenty of churches out there that allow you to be a bigot and don't cost as much and have a lot better music, and programs that may actually brainwash your kids.

Community
A sense of belonging
Being a part of something larger than one’s self
Security in numbers
Regular contact with like minded individuals

Pro tip: cow herds have about the same to offer, while they’re being led to slaughter

Cow herds also come in choice, prime and utility grades. ;)

That was an efficient castration.

It offers structure. Mormonism spells everything out and it teaches its members "how to be" in nearly every aspect of their lives. Some people like the security that comes with structure. They like answers to questions in life that can't really be answered. They like being told what to believe and how to act. They like the idea that they can do "A" and can expect "B" as a reward when they die.

I believe that the structure it offers is the most attractive characteristic of the church for my TBM husband. I really think it's why he refuses to study the church. If he finds out it's not true or that it has problems, how will he know how to conduct his life?

I agree. Some people need a high level of structure and certainty -- even if there is no real proof of the "certainty."

What does Mormonism offer? Trying to go back to my 12 year old self, hearing the missionary discussions with my siblings and newly divorced mother, it offered the hope of family togetherness in this life and the next, which was very attractive to me after my parents split up. It offered a good, clean life style that I thought was wonderful given the rampant drug use at the time, even in my nice town.

When I joined the Mormon church I felt like I belonged to something. I quickly made really good friends and felt like I had a safe community. I participated in fun youth activities. I was told I was special and chosen. Growing up in a home where I was not told I was special and mostly felt I was unwanted, it was nice to be told feel-good things.

The Mormon church also offered a really close community of people who helped each other.

It's true that it's possible to find good, helpful, nice people and groups outside of the Mormon church, but the Mormon church is very organized and meets all the needs of active members who fit it. It can be a good thing in many ways.

I can also list all the ways the Mormon church has been destructive in my life. I'm not sure the good outweighs the bad. Just using my family as an example, in the end, I think we're more disconnected because of the Mormon church in my part member family. Those of us who dedicated our lives to the Mormon church didn't turn out any better (some are worse) than those who wanted nothing to do with it. All but one are now out. For the one who remains, he now lives in Utah and has a tight-knit Mormon family. He joined later in life, just before he married, so he missed the mentally tortuous youth interviews with the bishop, endless church meetings and early morning seminary while growing up. He didn't go on a mission. He missed out on the worst part of being a Mormon which is why he's probably still in it.

Some of the naysayers who didn't ever get some good cheerios in Nursery will just mock what I say here.

As a toddler I was given some really good cheerios in Nursery class at church and I gained a powerful testimony that those cheerios were true. They gave me health in my navel, marrow in my bones, and strength in my loins and sinews. And then the Correlation program's beloved way of washing my brain through immersion (not sprinkling) to think the peculiar way I think then kicked in. As a result I've been wired to believe that the Church has everything to offer me. Any idea to the contrary gets immediately spit out of my brain to never be ever seriously thought about again.

So now you know why I believe that the Church has everything to offer me. Those cheerios were sure good. How were your cheerios when you were a toddler in Nursery?

A way to "heaven"...

AFTER

Hell,

On earth,

Being LDS.

IOW, nothing Interesting, Worthwhile, Interesting or Fun!

But as an outlet for masochism it's tough to beat.

Sorry to read elsewhere about your reproductive problems, bradley. That must have been hell.

Much as it pains me to have to agree with Henry, ;), I think he has got the right of it. LDS Inc does provide community. That is particularly useful to a group of potentially high earning members - recent BYU grads.

A family graduates, moves to “the mission field” with a corporate job, and one or more family members are nervous being around gentiles. In the ward they instantly have friends who speak the same language (Mormonese), they get dentist and babysitter and school recommendations, and the local ward is thrilled to have some fresh people in the ward. Win - win.

That is a very big deal to a lot of grads. There is a reason that LDS Inc, skinflint that it is, spends a large bundle of money on universities. College grads earn good money, and the LDS community provides exactly what they need to get careers established. LDS Inc gets a good return on investment in their schools.

What LDS Inc provides may not be worth the price, but that is a value judgement. They do in fact provide something.

Perhaps, but I would argue that the Mormons have often been found wanting in terms of kindness and basic human decency. How many times have we heard from former members who have been blamed for their own misfortunes? IMO Mormonism caters to the winners.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Much as it pains me to have to agree with Henry,
> ;), I think he has got the right of it. LDS Inc
> does provide community. That is particularly
> useful to a group of potentially high earning
> members - recent BYU grads.
>
> A family graduates, moves to “the mission
> field” with a corporate job, and one or more
> family members are nervous being around gentiles.
> In the ward they instantly have friends who speak
> the same language (Mormonese), they get dentist
> and babysitter and school recommendations, and the
> local ward is thrilled to have some fresh people
> in the ward. Win - win.
>
> That is a very big deal to a lot of grads. There
> is a reason that LDS Inc, skinflint that it is,
> spends a large bundle of money on universities.
> College grads earn good money, and the LDS
> community provides exactly what they need to get
> careers established. LDS Inc gets a good return on
> investment in their schools.
>
> What LDS Inc provides may not be worth the price,
> but that is a value judgement. They do in fact
> provide something.


Create a society of marks that gives birth to and indoctrinates offspring to be future willing marks.

A grifters dream...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2023 11:57AM by anybody.

>A grifters dream...

I can't argue that point. The definition of a good Mormon is someone who creates more Mormons, either through conversion or by birthing them. That is kind of an odd definition of "good"

And improve your toilet scrubbing techniques.

An envelope instead of an offering plate

It's more like, HERE'S WHAT YOU OWE US/ tscc

Offer it now. Today, and every Sunday

And offer to attend tithing settling tomorrow