When I was active on this board about ten years ago, I remember a former member who had been involved in some way with the money collection process writing about the nuts and bolts of tithing and other monetary collections from members: how tithing/offerings are collected, where it goes next, how the local expenses (electric bill, whatever) are paid, etc.

After watching the 60 Minutes whistleblower episode I started thinking about it again and would like to refresh my memory.

Please does anyone here know enough to give a quick overview? Or can anyone answer these questions:


Are tithing/offerings collected at branch or ward level, or some other way?

Assuming the money is collected locally, is a percentage of that sent to SLC, and another percentage kept for local use (bills, local charities, etc)?

Or does all the money collected locally go to SLC and SLC decides how much money to send back for local use?

Or something entirely different?

Roughly what percentage of money that is raised from members locally gets to be used locally? Roughly what percentage of local member money disappears to the opaque SLC accounts never to be seen again?

Having looked at a fair number of church budgets for the mainstream Protestant churches, normally each congregation keeps 90-95% of the donated funds. Only a small amount (normally 5%, but sometimes 10%,) is sent to the denomination's headquarters to cover administrative costs.

Out of the donated funds that each congregation keeps, they pay for a minister (who often has a divinity degree and coursework/experience in pastoral counseling,) any assistant or youth ministers, an organist, a maintenance worker, a church secretary, etc. They pay for their own heat and lights. They often have plentiful activities for both adults and youth. Members typically donate 1-3% of income, and they get a great deal back for their money. Individual congregations often also budget for charitable work, normally in the 5-10% range, but sometimes more.

Volunteers typically handle Sunday school, vacation Bible school, and selected projects. But the day-to-day cleaning is handled by a paid professional.

Mormons, by contrast, get temples and inexpensive church schools. They also spend an inordinate amount of time in "volunteer" positions that are covered by paid professionals in other churches. An all-volunteer church at the local level is not the flex that Mormons think it is.

Thanks Summer.

I agree with your conclusions. I also agree those are standard practices of mainline Protestant churches--along with financial transparency. Members get regular accounting reports that show how their money is being used.

In my opinion any organization with tax-exempt status should be required to report their finances.

But I was hoping someone here might be able to answer my questions re Mormon practices. There was an informative post about it here, maybe ten years ago. I thought I remembered that the percentages were flipped, with maybe 90% of the money going to SLC? Or maybe it all goes to SLC and then a small percentage is returned to the local branch for essentials?

Would appreciate it so much if anyone could give me a quick overview or answer any of my questions.

I know. My memory is that everything goes to SLC, with a small percentage being returned to the ward for its expenses. I remember the numbers being mentioned, and the amount returned to each ward is shockingly small. I think they base it on the number of church attendees each quarter.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My memory is that everything goes to SLC,
> with a small percentage being returned to the ward
> for its expenses. I remember the numbers being
> mentioned, and the amount returned to each ward is
> shockingly small

That is my memory as well.

If any others can corroborate, I'd be most grateful

Thanks!

This is how I understand it and they did away with the humanitarian check box. It all went into the big pot and then a little bit would be given back for the ward budgets. Every penny is sacred.

My guess is that 100% of tithing goes to SLC, and bills are paid either directly from SLC, or by checks written locally on a SLC account.

I also assume that fast offering stays at the stake level, or possibly even the ward level, or some combination. A real ward financial clerk could give a definitive answer, but I don’t know that we have any of those hanging around here at the moment.

My recollection as ward clerk is that ALL donations are transmitted to SLC weekly regardless of whether it was tithing, fast offerings, missionary donations, scouting or BoM donations. All the totals were transmitted to SLC. Membership changes entered on the ward's computer could not be sent until Tuesday- they didn't want clerks at the church during family home evening :)

I only filled in for the Finance Clerk 3-4 times a year. On one occasion, the counselor in the bishopric was too lackadaisical for my liking. The physical tender (cash and checks) had to be deposited in the nearby bank by 5 pm. So it was after 4 by the time it was counted, verified, recounted and transmitted to SLC. Brother Slowpoke drove slower than Grandma Moses and we got stopped by a train. We missed the 5pm deadline. We had to drive together to the stake center with the bank pouch. A call had to be made to the Financial Dept which has emergency numbers in case the protocol is muffed.

There's a church form that has to be filled out to the T if the church's money is not deposited the same day it's collected as well as a synopsis of the folly for failing to get their money to the bank.

I remember those discussions too. From my memory, it goes to SLC and they give back per butt in the seat. Rubicon was a ward clerk, I think he is the one I remember talking about it. You may want to run him through SEARCH and see if anything stands out to you. Be sure to change it to search "all dates". The default is set to just 30 days. I did find this one in a quick scan using "ward clerk"

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2201268,2201268#msg-2201268

I was a financial clerk for 3 years. All checks, cash, and coins are counted and entered into the church software application by 5 P.M. on Sunday, you balance and enter per donation category. The deposit is placed in a bag and dropped at the bank. The church checks what you entered into the software to what the bank received, 100% of all donations go directly to the church's main account.

The bishop is provided a small budget based upon attendance that he can use for discretionary purposes, mostly for activities and such. Which explains why there are no longer any activities, my bet is what they get currently can no longer cover events. The bishop writes checks (with a co-signer, who at the time was me), you had a box (during my time as a clerk) that you checked for the purpose of the check. Either budget or assistance.

If you exceeded your budget, you got a call. If you exceeded your wards fast offering contributions, you got a call. All building expenses were covered by the church, things like carpet replacement you had to make a request and cross your fingers. Repairs had to be requested, you crossed your fingers. Church Headquarters controls "Everything"!

At one point, it was brought to our attention by the bishop that we clerks were flagged by the stake auditors because we were using too much electricity during the week. Neither the financial clerk nor myself had the code to fire up the HVAC. Yet they stake was bitching that we clerks were coming too often to the ward meetinghouse. I think I went T-Th if I wasn't working and the FC came in on W-F and sometimes Saturday. There was only one computer so I tried to let him use it as often as he needed to.

We had to report to the stake center to sign an explanation as to why the utility usage and subsequent bill had increased. The FC took the whole circus in stride. I was pissed and asked them if it was better to use the computer without turning it on. I think the FC nearly choked over my comment.

The stake auditor looked down then glowered- Brother Matrix there's no need for levity. This is a serious charge as utility bills are paid from tithing. Your tone is out of place over this matter.

I retorted- No, this is stupid crap. The church has money and shouldn't bother people doing their crappy church reports.

I don't think the auditor had ever heard the word crap spoken inside the stake center. He lost color in his face. I thought he was going to cry.

He left the room and warned me- You're in big trouble for your careless profanity and taking the lord's name in vain. The stake president will hear about this.

I think I shouted- Good. Let's have it out.

The FC grabbed my hand to calm me down. I waited a half an hour but the stake president never came out of his office. So we left.

The stake auditor did not return to my ward for some 4 years, even after I was released as ward clerk. I moved out of state which is why I was released.

There was no more complaining about ward utility bills after that.

Thanks for the story, it made me smile.

I had one visit from the Stake Auditor. He came in all high and mighty in the clerks office. I was there, and had my backup clerk with me, since two of us had to count the money.

The bishop was standing in the room, and the auditor launched into me about my responsibilities. I cut him off about 5 minutes into it, and told him that I was currently the Chief Accountant of a County Division who handled grants for State, County, Federal, which was millions coming and going per month. I also told him that I dealt with Federal, State,and County auditors on a regular basis, and never had a finding from any of them. I then told him all the flaws in his auditing approach, and suggestions on how the church could improve their auditing methods for the wards.

He then blustered about and left. My backup clerk slapped me on the back, and the Bishop gave me a sly grin and a pat on the back as well and left the room. The Stake never bothered me again.

Good for you, Silence.

Silence,

I'm glad you put the stake auditor in his place. I faced the dragon (auditor) alone for the first time. He gave me hell over extra typewriter ribbon and nice looking stationary for membership certificates.

I was but an assistant membership clerk. I barely did anything in the clerk office save for typing membership certificates and filing hard copy membership files (the ones in carbon triplicates).

I wish that I would have had the courage to stand up to these goons sooner. I spent nearly 30 years of my life worrying about what they thought of me and following their edicts when I never was going to do enough to please them.

I listened to a recent Mormon Stories episode where John Dehlin read something from a stake financial clerk. The clerk stated that his stake received approximately $230k in donations per month from the wards in his stake. Those donations were sent to Salt Lake and then the stake receives $9k back per quarter with which to run the stake. So the stake contributes almost 2.8 million and received $36k per year from Salt Lake.

The information seemed somewhat incomplete. I'm not sure if fast offerings were included in that, but it gives an idea of how little the church funds its wards and stakes. If you care to listen, it's episode 1765 starting at about the 1 hour 30 minute mark.

I’m guessing that ward financial clerks, especially in N America, are going to have a little more attitude with stake auditors, since the Ensign Peak disclosures.

Certainly hope so!