Is it an eye-opening look at sex-trafficking or an LDS/QANON exploitation.

Is Tim related to Elder Ballard?

Why did Disney shelve the film?

Is crowd-sourced Angel films an LDS company?

Have you seen the movie? Thoughts?

auntsukey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it an eye-opening look at sex-trafficking or an
> LDS/QANON exploitation.
>
> Is Tim related to Elder Ballard?
>
> Why did Disney shelve the film?
>
> Is crowd-sourced Angel films an LDS company?
>
> Have you seen the movie? Thoughts?

There doesn't seem to be a connection with Mormonism:
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4587882/bio/?ref_=nmpub_sa_1

RPackham Wrote:

>
> There doesn't seem to be a connection with
> Mormonism:
> https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4587882/bio/?ref_=nmpu
> b_sa_1

I apologize deeply for my mistaken information!

I saw the movie on Saturday.
I wouldn't say I "enjoyed" it, because the content is very disheartening, but it seemed well-done.

No mention of Mormonism or Utah.

After the credits, they had a special message.
If you wanted to, you could buy a ticket for someone who might not be able to afford to see the movie.
They really want to spread the word and put an end to human trafficking.

Reminds me of the Little Orphan Annie decoder ring from A Christmas Story.

Tim Ballard is very LDS. Famously LDS.

The film was made in 2018, before Qanon was a thing.

Evil in today's world is more powerful than ever thanks to Metcalfe's Law.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law

Social networks and end-to-end encryption are genies that cannot be put back in the bottle. Most people I meet don't believe that radical evil exists in everyday life. I don't blame them. It's just too much to acknowledge. We would rather pretend the world is safe.

I think Mormons are going to make hay while Ballard's 15 minutes of fame lasts.

>Evil in today's world is more powerful than ever thanks to Metcalfe's Law.

>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law

I'm not seeing the relevance of Metcalfe's Law. Why wouldn't it also apply to good being a more powerful force in the world then. ever before? The law seems ethically neutral to me.


>Social networks and end-to-end encryption are genies that cannot be put back in the bottle. Most people I meet don't believe that radical evil exists in everyday life. I don't blame them. It's just too much to acknowledge. We would rather pretend the world is safe.

Your conspiracy-theoryism is showing. Anyone who doesn't buy what you're selling is in denial? That's conspiracy-theory 101 - all disconfirming evidence is simply ignored.

> That's conspiracy-theory 101 - all disconfirming
> evidence is simply ignored.

It's not ignored. Quite the opposite: it's turned around to show that the conspiracy goes even deeper than originally thought.

Conspiracy theorist: the earth is the center of the universe.

Scientist: look at all the proof that the earth is not the center of the universe.

Conspiracy theorist: that just proves that scientists, and science, are part of the conspiracy.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Conspiracy theorist: that just proves that
> scientists, and science, are part of the
> conspiracy.

I know a flat-earther. He thinks that the governments of the world can all cooperate in hiding the truth (that the earth is flat). When I brought up the fact that the governments of the world cannot agree on anything, he countered that it was all for show. Governments fight over borders, trade, and engage in all sorts of military conflict to hide the fact that they are conspiring to hide the fact that the earth is flat.

Hmmm.

Bradley wrote in part:

"The film was made in 2018, before Qanon was a thing."

Qanon was definitely around in 2018, and this movie was taking advantage of that.

> Tim Ballard is very LDS. Famously LDS.


https://www.mormonwiki.com/Tim_Ballard


https://www.ldsliving.com/rescuing-children-from-sex-slavery-one-latter-day-saints-inspired-mission/s/78169

Past discussions of the man, his silly video, and his work.


https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1538711,1540772#msg-1540772

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1672826,1672913#msg-1672913

Just watched the movie. Before that, I watched a few hours of interviews with Tim Ballard and other people who worked on the movie.

Having travelled the world and seen some of the seedier places, I'm not surprised that s*x traffcking happens.

There is also a huge problem with child labor.

Kudos to Tim Ballard for bringing this to the consciousness of millions of people. Don't care if the guy is Mormon or not. If a person does something to make the world a better place, I'll give credit where credit is due, no matter how that person prays or votes.

Tim Ballard and OUR may be doing some good in the world, but there is controversy surrounding him and his organization.

In the past couple of years, I have listened to a few podcasts and read several articles about Tim Ballard and OUR. There are a variety of complaints about the organization. From what I remember, there have been accusations that Ballard misuses donations to OUR. In addition, rather than using skilled operatives, untrained, wealthy donors pay to be part of his raids. There have been reports that some of the raids are just shams. He and OUR orchestrate pretend raids so that wealthy donors can have a feel good experience.

There are other issues that I can't remember now, but I would probably take the movie with a grain of salt.

Yes, I recently listened to such a podcast.

The podcast is called CYBER VICE which I can't vouch for either way. The episode guest was Anna Merlan who claims to have been following this issue for years. I won't link it here.

She didn't come out and accuse them of anything, but there are some suspicious exaggerations in Ballard's claims. A couple of their stories were not exactly as they presented (she explains).

Apparently the organization was investigated in Utah courts and they basically silenced information. (That smacks of Mormons protecting Mormon in potentially negative press stories to me.)

She brings up a few troubling things associated with her investigation. She seemed to be bending over backwards to say a lot of nice things too. She touched on the Mormon angle, and the overall conspiracy trend of accusing everyone of child sexual abuse. Consenting brothel workers in Thailand are not the same as locked up children.

The supporters of the organization have been attacking her but don't seem to answer her questions.

She is in no way downplaying the issue. Credit is given where credit is due.

She is currently seeking information about why he recently left the organization and started another one.

Anyway, for what it's worth, she adds a few things to think about skeptically.

What in the hell is a LDS/QAnon? There is a message board an anonymous poster that goes by Q posts stuff on. There’s people who follow the posts and try to figure out what they mean.

There really is no substantial movement. Just some naive people thinking they have the inside scoop on things. To have a substantial movement you need a leader. There is no leader.

It's a true story. Any media that claims it's some kind of exaggeration are lying.

The only people talking about Q Anon are the left wing press who for whatever reason are running interference for child sex traffickers.

I don't know why anyone would fight conservatives on this issue but this only seems to confirm what conservatives already think about the left and child grooming.

Shouldn't both sides of politics be fighting against pedophilia?

Absolutely no decent person, liberal, moderate, or conservative, is in favor of child sex trafficking, pedophilia, etc.

However, over the years, questions have arisen about Tim Ballard, his organization, and his methods. From a Huff Post article --

"Foreign Policy's analysis fails to ask the most basic question of all: we know that child trafficking is a huge problem in the United States. Why is OUR not operating here? For that matter, why are they not raiding the brothels of Amsterdam or London? The simple reason is that, lacking any legal capacity to undertake such operations, Bollard and his rag-tag team would be arrested on the spot. And any court in any of these jurisdictions would not hesitate to throw out a case that rests on the evidence of an OUR-type raid because of the failure to meet even the most basic standards of supervision and accountability."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chasing-the-slave-traders_b_7913104

There are plenty of other organizations and LEAs that work against child sex trafficking and sex slavery. Raising questions about Tim Ballard does not negate the value of these other organizations or the work that they do.

Here is the link with QANON from Rolling Stone Magazine:
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/sound-of-freedom-jim-caviezel-child-trafficking-qanon-movie-1234783837/

From the article: "It’s straight-up QAnon stuff, right down to his use of catchphrases like “The storm is upon us.” Here, he gets to act out some of that drama by playing a fictionalized version of Tim Ballard, head of the anti-sex trafficking nonprofit Operation Underground Railroad (O.U.R.), in a feature film that casts the operator as a Batman-style savior for kids sold into the sex trade.

Ballard himself has dabbled in Q-adjacent conspiracy theories, such as the Wayfair trafficking hoax, while his organization has far-right affinities and a long record of distorting its botched “raids,” which rely on bizarre tactics like asking psychics where to find victims for rescue."

Your receipt sir.

HH =)

Very good article HH with a lot of facts. The further you look into this movie, the less fact based it is.

I'm curious about one thing -- from living in the greater Washington, D.C. area (central Maryland,) and from having talked with a great number of government workers and especially background checkers, I've never, ever heard of any CIA employee or operative who will admit to working for "the company," either actively or in the past. It just isn't done. Normally there is a cover story -- the person in question works for the State Department, or AID, or the DoD, etc. And yes, you can often tease together small clues and figure it out. But openly admit to working for the CIA, NSA, etc.? Never. Not even in retirement. Not even among close friends.

Even in death, a number of CIA operatives have never been named.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Memorial_Wall

So what's Tim Ballard's deal about that? Why is the CIA on his resume?

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never, ever heard of any CIA
> employee or operative who will admit to working
> for "the company," either actively or in the past.
> It just isn't done.


Just looking specifically at your so-called “news” in America:

John Brennan, James Clapper, Chuck Rosenberg, Michael Hayden, Frank Figliuzzi, Fran Townsend, Stephen Hall, Samantha Vinograd, Andrew McCabe, Josh Campbell, Asha Rangappa, Phil Mudd, James Gagliano, Jeremy Bash, Susan Hennessey, Ned Price, Rick Francona... I can keep going.

That’s off the cuff…

Citations? Yes, once you get to the level of Director or Chief of Staff, your name is going to be known. Brennan and Hayden were both CIA directors, Clapper and Hayden DDNI, McCabe at the FBI, etc.

I'm talking about more ordinary employees and operatives. My experience is that someone at Tim Ballard's level would never admit to his association with a clandestine agency. That's why I'm questioning it.

I heard that there have been several instances of tactics used by OUR that actually has increased demand for child sex trafficking in these areas.

Like realtors on the team offering pimps of children large amounts of money to buy the kids. To save them, of course, but it sends the message to those trafficking children that if they continue to do this, they'll get offered money and receive money for doing it. Or the operatives going into villages pretending to be wealthy tourists, throwing money around, then finding local pimps and asking if they offer children. When they say they don't, the operatives then tell them, "go bring me a child" and when the pimps do, they call in local authorities and get everyone arrested.

It increases demand for children in the sex trafficking market. It's dumb. Don't we all have super action hero fantasies about "If I just went into this situation guns blazing, I could save everybody. Yippe ki yay motherbutter!" But in fact the real world doesn't work like that. Structural problems need structural solutions. Not Batman going in and beating crooks bloody one by one.

Even if these claims about their tactics end up not being true, I wouldn't trust this guy Ballard or anything he's created. As far as the movie goes, sure, some propaganda has entertainment value. And sure, those who've been living under a rock and never heard of sex trafficking might be made aware of a very real problem. But then anyone looking to get involved or how to contribute might incorrectly seek to support these incompetent losers rather than looking into it deeper and finding organizations that actually do work that helps.

Agree, blackcoatesdaughter.

Plus, according to the podcast I heard (which I can't confirm), there was a discussion in the organization addressing what to do if you too are attracted to the children being rescued.

It kind of gives me "protest too much" vibes or maybe "invent the disease and provide the cure" vibes. There was apparently also a whiteboard they had linking children to "the covenant" which is Mormon speak. I wish they would be more transparent to independent investigating reporters to remove skepticism.

What is very interesting is the amount of negative press the movie is receiving.

I have to agree with Summer: "Absolutely no decent person, liberal, moderate, or conservative, is in favor of child sex trafficking, pedophilia, etc."

In this case, I have to say that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I am against child trafficking. Whether Tim Ballard drives over the speed limit or has a bad haircut is not my concern, I'm just glad he's doing SOMETHING about child trafficking.

Once the causes and enablers are rooted out, I'd be happy to look for the ideal person to be the face of the anti-exploitation movement. Until then, I'm going to have to give credit to the man who has helped save more children than all of us put together here on this board.

But back to my original point. Why all the negative press about the movie? Why would anybody want the message to be silenced? Or why not make a better movie?

We all know that filmmakers get things wrong. There was a movie about an MMA athlete (don't know the title) where the hero ends up fighting for the title, but they used the wrong opponent. It seems the producer thought a different opponent would make a better movie.

Go to YouTube and look for all the mistakes in Saving Private Ryan. They got a lot of things wrong. The soldier crossed the beach in 10 minutes. Historians say that it would have taken longer. There's a guy with a huge typewriter who is there to set up field operations. They didn't use massive typewriters like the one he's carrying. But the producer probably used the massive typewriter to make the scene seem even more absurd. A classmate remarked that there is no way the 8 guys who went to find Private Ryan could have got from point A to point B in such a short time. Yes, they made a ton of errors, but it's still an awesome movie.

Go back to Sound of Freedom. Were there mistakes? I'm sure there were. How about Tim Ballard? Is he perfect? Who is? Does OUR make things worse sometimes? They might. I don't know. Sometimes the solution causes new problems. But I'm sure Ballard's heart is in the right place.

I can make one prediction. People are going to be on the lookout for trafficked children. Hopefully, they don't take it overboard.

Ballard and his movie go beyond "mistakes". My sense is that they deliberately exaggerate, exploit, and lie about their efforts.

T-Bone asked for "the ideal person to be the face of the anti-exploitation movement." Perhaps THORN, the group advocated by Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher answers that plea.
https://www.thorn.org/about-our-fight-against-sexual-exploitation-of-children/


In the meantime, interested parties might want to watch the Op-Ed video Lynn Packer produced three years ago re: Tim Ballard, UT AG Sean Reyes, O.U.R, and "The Sound of Freedom" addressing these concerns:

- Stockpiling $30M in donations that are not being used to save children.
- Excessive compensation to Tim Ballard (over $300k/year).
- Unethical accounting that now is likely hiding Tim Ballard's total compensation.
- Lavish expenditures (e.g., first-class flights, 5-star hotels, dramatic helicopter appearances) with no financial accountability about how funds are used.
- Using false statistics to overstate the prevalence of child sex trafficking worldwide to lure donors.
- Using excessive emotion and religious manipulation to lure donors, including claims to be called of God, and to be protected by God in OUR's work.
- Using affinity with Mormon celebrities like Mormon apostle M. Russell Ballard, Glenn Beck, and Elizabeth/Ed Smart to lure donors.
- Claiming credit for raids that they were not involved with.
- Engaging in illegal and unsafe raids (jump teams) that often yield no positive results.
- Alleged unsavory behavior of jump team members, including illegal drug use during raids, sexual assault, etc.
- Drawing money and attention away from legitimate charities who are meaningfully providing solutions to the problems OUR decries.
- Victimizing and politicizing the suffering of children for political gain (Sean Reyes).
- Associating with and taking advantage of known false conspiracy theories like QAnon.
- Using the LDS Church's law firm (Kirton & McConkie) to intimidate and silence whistleblowers.
- In summary, manipulating wealthy donors through religious and patriotic emotion and misusing or misallocating funds, all on the backs of a very vulnerable population.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_cM6mZgD2E

The movie misses the elephant in the room; namely, that most pedophilia is done by friends or family members of the victim, not strangers.

My brother's daughter is a case in point. She was born as his marriage to an LDS native American woman was disintegrating. His ex remarried, and they hid themselves on her native Navajo reservation while my brother was searching for them to get visitation rights. After he found them, he learned that the girl's new stepfather had been molesting her since she was little. After the girl got married and moved out, it was revealed that her younger half-sister was now receiving unwanted advances from her actual father, my niece's stepfather.

I don't have the statistics on hand, but I do remember reading that what happened to my sister and her half-sister is much more common than the sex trafficking of children portrayed in this movie.

I tried to watch Packer's video. Anybody who has any tangential experience with evidence law will start to have a melt-down 2 minutes in. But to someone with and practical experience, Packer basically throws out a bunch of emotive catch phrases designed to induce FUD. But he nevers seems to bring receipts.

QAnon links. OK, what links? Oh, just links to QAnon. That should be enough.

His discussion of the difficulties in producing the film is nothing new.

Difficulties in fund-raising, filming, and distribution. If you've ever worked on a movie, it takes years to raise money, film, edit, and distribute. There are always problems. Unless you're a major studio, you always have financing problems, contractual problems, and all sorts of problems.

My wife had a bit part in a friend's indie movie. 3 years later, the producer sent me a link to the trailer. Then he took the film to several festivals. About 5 years after the film wrapped, my friend got it on several streaming platforms.

So it's a negative thing that Ballard ran into difficulties funding the film? Does Packer know nothing about film-making? EVERYBODY runs into trouble with finance, unless you're given a blank check by a major studio.

Packer is counting on the general public's lack of experience with film-making.

All of Packer's "sources" seem to come down to "Trust me, bro."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2023 07:03PM by T-Bone.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend?" Not necessarily. He/she/it may be an ally in some cases, but allies are not always good friends; in fact, there have been several instances in history (think of the U.S.-USSR alliance during World War II) where allies, once they have defeated their common enemy, have turned on each other.

A lot of people want simple answers and absolute fixes (in fact, it is driving much of U.S. politics right now) to wboth individual and world problems, but in most cases, including this one, simple answers and quick fixes do not exist. And anyone making a film saying otherwise is lying, probably to gain more volunteer and financial support for themselves.

blindguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The enemy of my enemy is my friend?" Not
> necessarily. He/she/it may be an ally in some
> cases, but allies are not always good friends; in
> fact, there have been several instances in history
> (think of the U.S.-USSR alliance during World War
> II) where allies, once they have defeated their
> common enemy, have turned on each other.

Fair point. But I think you get the spirit of what I'm saying. Ballard is combating human trafficking, and I respect that. Whether he's perfect in the rest of his life, I'd be happy to sort that out later, as long as his failures are not so egregious that he's creating an even bigger problem.

The world demands heros that are spotless and perfect. We demand that of pro athletes, actors, and politicians. But I can't find any who are spotless and blameless. I just want people to do some good, regardless of their flaws.

> A lot of people want simple answers and absolute
> fixes (in fact, it is driving much of U.S.
> politics right now) to wboth individual and world
> problems, but in most cases, including this one,
> simple answers and quick fixes do not exist. And
> anyone making a film saying otherwise is lying,
> probably to gain more volunteer and financial
> support for themselves.

I agree in part.

What I'd like to see more than some guy going on dangerous missions that can possibly make things worse is investigations into the "customers" of the pedo rings.

Can we agree that the thunderous silence just feeds more conspiracies? For example, Ghislaine Maxwell was convicted of human trafficking. But where is her "customer" list? Who was she trafficking to? When we hear nothing about that, the conspiracy theorists come out of the woodwork. It just fans the flames. "That must means the people she trafficked to are so powerful that they are getting the story suppressed, and they killed Epstein! She's next!"

So in my mind, the best solution would be to find the sickos who are preying on children. Make them so afraid to act out that demand for human trafficking drops.

Of course, if you've seen Chris Hansen on Catch a Predator, he helped put a few guys in jail. But you'd often see these older guys come to a home to meet with a decoy and they'd say, "Oh, yeah, I've seen you on TV." When a person has this kind of mental disorder, it seems that nothing will deter them.

If deterrence is not the answer, what is? That's where the conversation get nuanced. I've seen articles that suggest castration. Sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me. Do serial offenders need to be locked up? Therapy might be enough for others.

Despite our disagreements about how to handle the problem or who is best to handle it, I just hope that we agree that exploitation of children (or any human being) is sick and evil and needs to be stopped. How to go about that? I don't know. But I'm happy that someone like Ballard has an idea and he's taking action, which is much more than I can say for myself.

$14.5M budget
Now grossed over $100M.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7z74x/tim-ballard-sound-of-freedom-operation-underground-railroad-stepped-away

"In a statement, an OUR spokesperson said, “Founder, Tim Ballard has recently stepped away from Operation Underground Railroad prior to launch of the film, ‘Sound of Freedom.’”

Perhaps he was called as a mission president.

A comment from someone who worked with him --

"This doesn’t sound like it was Tim’s choice..."

https://twitter.com/Jesse/status/1679866963466801154

Here's a previous, and rather harrowing account from a young Mormon woman who was on one of Ballard's first raids --

"Toward the end of my association with the group, I told one person anxious about the recent bad press that I was concerned about an organization that relied so much on Ballard and his vision of the world. The other person was worried, too."

https://slate.com/human-interest/2021/05/sex-trafficking-raid-operation-underground-railroad.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2023 03:44AM by summer.

Thanks, summer, for that article.

It's something, isn't it? I can't believe that he put a young mother in the path of danger like that -- all to feed his ego, IMO.

For once I find myself agreeing with you.

From Wikipedia: "Ballard grew up in California. As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, he served a two-year mission to Chile. After completing his mission, he attended and graduated cum laude from Brigham Young University with a Bachelor of Arts in Spanish and political science."

So, the film project really began in 2014. Ballard wanted to be a cowboy. And Kathrine could be his cowgirl. Did Tim leave OUR for greener pastures? It doesn't get any greener than Jesus playing you (with Mira Sorvino as your wife!) in your very own movie. The Tim Ballard story preceeding another Ken and Barbie movie by a month.

Now, to read the tea leaves, what to make of the film's smashing success. Is Qanon the new counterculture movement? Is this the 1960s on LDS instead of LSD?

Here I am back to my religion as a cultural hallucinogen riff. Jordan Peterson is the new Timothy Leary, in a strange Harvard tie-in. Not that there's anything wrong with getting high on God if that's your cup of, um, tea.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2023 10:59AM by bradley.

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

Is Tim Ballard doing anything to rescue the underage brides of the FLDS, the Kingstons and other polygamous fundamental groups of HIS religion? Yeah, HIS religion. Despite the Mainstream LDS protests to the contrary, they are all followers of Joseph Smith, who was a sexual predator if ever there was one.

I'd like to see him rescue sex crime victims closer to home.

Bet that's a movie a lot of people would flock to see.

Lois

Mormonism was founded on the sex trafficking of minor girls. Who is Ballard kidding?

Depending which source you believe Ballard has a net worth if 15 to 17 million dollars. I suspect that none of his books have been big earners so either he invested his salary well while on the government payroll or something else is in play.

The movie will earn good money. I don't think he'll be suffering.