Evangelical Christian leader Russell Moore revealed this week that many evangelical pastors have become alarmed that their congregants have become so militant that they are even rejecting the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Moore said that multiple pastors had told him disturbing stories about their congregants being upset when they read from the famous "Sermon on the Mount" in which Christ espoused the principles of forgiveness and mercy as central to Christian doctrine.

"Multiple pastors tell me, essentially, the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount, parenthetically, in their preaching — 'turn the other cheek' — [and] to have someone come up after to say, 'Where did you get those liberal talking points?'" Moore revealed. "And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, 'I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ,' the response would not be, 'I apologize.' The response would be, 'Yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak.'"

I get the sense that there is a backlash brewing in more traditional parts of the evangelical spectrum against the Raging Christ who has conquered the GOP and the right in general.

And no, I don't think it is possible to mix any more metaphors in a single sentence.

I must confess I never have till now heard the term "raging Christ" in this context. Usually it is terms of the eternal battle within between good and evil. It is my observation that religion in America is shot through with politics. I believe too much time is spent pushing for political solutions to society's problems rather than charge of the faith which is to change lives through the message of the Gospel. Spending time and energy treating the symptoms rather than the cause.

More alarming to me is the shift to situation ethics displayed among many Christians in recent polls. In 2011 white evangelicals were polled on the question:

Do you think an elected official who commits immoral acts in their private and business life can still behave ethically in their public (elected role) life?

It is a debatable question but in 2011 only 44% of white evangelicas believed so. A few years later that poll was taken again and 61% believed so. Among Catholics the change was from 42% to 58%. Among mainline protestants the change was from 38% to 61%.

I think we know what the major outcome of this was at the polling booths.

I used the term "raging Christ" because it seemed to be the sort of character these people support. I had not heard it before, so my usage has no theological content.

The term "Raging Christ" makes me think of Jesus playing a video game and not being able to level up while others around him have no problem doing so.


ETA: Or needing to chip in close to the pin to save par, but catching it thin and sending it across the green and into a trap...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2023 07:13PM by elderolddog.

> The term "Raging Christ" makes me think of Jesus
> playing a video game and not being able to level
> up while others around him have no problem doing
> so.

This is one of those times when I feel the need to consult a teenage boy in order to understand what you are saying.

I sincerely (whatever that means...) believe that the world really, really missed out when Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John skipped Jesus's teenage years...

Right? Nothing that comes before or after adolescence offers such good spectacle.

But I still can't imagine Jesus sitting over a Play Station 4 between temptations in the desert.

I've never heard it before either.

CrispingPin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... in most of these scenarios, when the
> pastor would say, 'I'm literally quoting Jesus
> Christ,' the response would not be, 'I apologize.'
> The response would be, 'Yes, but that doesn't work
> anymore. That's weak.'"

You wouldn't think you'd have to tell church folk which words and ideas come from God's son.

Re the response "That's weak" - OK, so that's a new one on me.

At that point I wonder why they're even in church. Even many non-Christians know the message is supposed to be about peace (honesty would be good too). Where do they get the idea they're supposed to update the very basics of the message? Or worse - question the literal sacrificial Lamb (in their theology).

I kind of give up, finally, trying to understand where some people are coming from.

It's definitely not the spirit of peace that's manifesting these days.

I think if you're going to call Jesus weak you may as well stop calling yourself Christian - literally the descriptor that conveys the idea that you follow him, no?

I've never heard a message at church that we should always be getting all up in everybody's faces all the time. Not on purpose anyway.

If those folks think that turning the other cheek is weak and no longer works, I can’t imagine they’ll be too responsive to “love your neighbor as yourself.” Especially when they hear Jesus’ explanation of who their neighbors are.

CrispingPin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... I can’t imagine
> they’ll be too responsive to “love your
> neighbor as yourself.”

Yeah, no kidding.


> Especially when they hear
> Jesus’ explanation of who their neighbors are.

First I laughed. Then tears pricked.

Militant "Christians".

Not my favourite brand.

Very good post.

I don't think we should be surprised when groups feel persecuted, attacked or pressured that they drag out Christian war phrases.
Onward Christian soldiers
Army of God
Soldiers of Christ cross
Swords
Marching to war

The Bible and hymns are loaded with war metaphors and phrases, too many to list here. In Luke, the parable of the "King" is going to war is an example.

All you have to do is cherry pick which of Christ's teachings confirm what message is needed. Now that they've gone too far, they are dragging out the Peace Jesus instead of the Rage Against Evil Jesus.

Remember the Christian imagery includes sheep following a shepherd sometimes and fighting evil as a soldier in others. Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised when extremists act out. Hopefully the pendulum will swing back. It must be hard as a EV leader trying to drive the peace vs rage bus.

> It must be hard as a EV
> leader trying to drive the peace vs rage bus.

I imagine it's terrible. These extremists use Jesus as a mascot, not as a leader.

“These extremists use Jesus as a mascot, not as a leader.”

That is SO on the money.

The pattern reminds me of a biography of Otto von Bismarck I read decades ago. The author said that the great man very much believed in God but sort of as a junior partner.

Evangelistic extremists are the same way. "We'd love to have you, Jesus, as long as you don't get in the way."

That says a lot. Jesus makes the best "wing man".

That's because the guises of Christ are just dress-up over his true core self, Banking Christ.

If Jesus didn't want to be a banker he would say something. He could bring it up in Celestial Room discussions with the Q15.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think we should be surprised when groups
> feel persecuted, attacked or pressured that they
> drag out Christian war phrases.
> Onward Christian soldiers
> Army of God
> Soldiers of Christ cross
> Swords
> Marching to war
>
> The Bible and hymns are loaded with war metaphors
> and phrases, too many to list here. In Luke, the
> parable of the "King" is going to war is an
> example.
>
> All you have to do is cherry pick which of
> Christ's teachings confirm what message is needed.
> Now that they've gone too far, they are dragging
> out the Peace Jesus instead of the Rage Against
> Evil Jesus.
>
> Remember the Christian imagery includes sheep
> following a shepherd sometimes and fighting evil
> as a soldier in others. Honestly, we shouldn't be
> surprised when extremists act out. Hopefully the
> pendulum will swing back. It must be hard as a EV
> leader trying to drive the peace vs rage bus.

Mormon / LDS version: “we are all enlisted until the conflict is over…”

Is the song about Hie To Kolob still used?

Does anyone here know ???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2023 12:10AM by GNPE.

Matthew 5:43-44:
You have heard that it was said, “You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.” But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

HUH?!?! That sounds like something a [insert slur here] would say.

Jesus is misquoted for different political aims. Speaking of misquoting, a quick internet search (there are several websites about the Bible, just pick on) reveals that the true meaning of "taking the Lord's name in vain" was not using God or Jesus as an exclamation. The Bible was not written in English. Various translations exist that show that misquoting Jesus or misusing his teachings would be taking the Lord's name in vain.

Evangelicals are so busy fighting each other and splintering their churches believe me they aren’t a threat to anybody. All this talk of Christian militants being any kind of a threat is silly none sense.

Sure.

Ummm, you may not have noticed, but a right was taken away from women mostly because of Christian beliefs. I consider that a huge threat.

They will chip away at rights for any group they don't like either. Even if they are a minority (which they aren't), they are influencing multiple laws in various states.

Yeah, but you're not a white male, so what do you know.

Exactly. Women's reproductive rights have been taken away, and the public schools, which should be religiously neutral, have become a battleground for the evangelicals.

Whoever that person was, it gave me validation of what I’ve been thinking: Most of those religious extremists only read the Old Testament. There’s much more smiting in that book?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2023 12:01PM by lapsed2.

Actually, you're right! But this move towards beliefs in Old Testament-style revenge has been going on for a long time--I actually began a thread a few years back on this very Board about my experiences at Arizona State University around 2010 with evangelicals who preferred the anger of the old Testament to the forgiveness of the New Testament.

Yes. Nothing new. The Bible is a buffet. A very convenient buffet. All through history as men killed and tortured and bullied using the Old Testament as justification, the New Testament of Forgiveness was sitting there meekly the whole time.

At least for some the New Testament is going to go the way of New Coke as the many in the world find "Original" Old Testament to be the "classic" that can fuel their agendas.

OK, as a lifelong Southern Baptist, I call BS on Russell Moore. There are over 47,000 SBC churches in the US. Every pastor, in every church, every Sunday, is expected to come up with a unique sermon addressed to his congregation. Baptists do not use a lectionary, as do Presbyterians,Episcopalians, Methodists, and Lutherans so there are no prescribed scripture readings for each Sunday. There are 66 books in the Bible, 1189 chapters. How likely is it that "multiple" Southern Baptist pastors a) preached a sermon on Matthew 5:39, b)were challenged/criticized by members of their congregations after the service and c) took time to contact Russell Moore, who is no longer a Southern Baptist, to report that their members think the Savior's teachings are "weak?" Sorry, it just doesn't ring true.

The OP merely described Moore as an evangelical, not a member of the SBC. Although it can fairly be said that Moore is a very prominent former leader in the SBC, and a prominent evangelical. As the editor of Christianity Today, he probably does hear from many church pastors in various denominations. He is very well connected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_D._Moore

"Southern baptist" ? Tell us what other kinds of baptists there are.

Which one is true ?

Why the one you pastorize, of course.

Ka-ching to all of that. Fascinating thread for me.

So many Jesus's to choose from. Customize your own. You can, you know, since he works for you. Make him the general of your army. Works well since he is never on the battle field and only calls in his commands from afar. Very very afar. Almost like he's in a black hole somewhere.

So funny how many different "companies" Jesus is fronting for. It's like a football league that all has the same mascot. Our Jesus can beat up your Jesus. And by beat up we mean the Supremes will take you down.

Just remember. He has enough sunbeams and doesn't want you for that any more. But he does need some help with some gerrymandering if you are adept at that.