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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Who are the saints? Are the saints the membership or the leaders?
nsmek Wrote:
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> Who are the saints? Are the saints the membership
> or the leaders?
They're all saints. :)
Here's a brief blurb about the origins of the name:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Latter-Day-Saints.html
"Primarily by the efforts of Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery, an organization formed and was named The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The name was reported to have come by revelation from Jesus Christ. It was to indicate three specific certainties: 1) Jesus Christ ordained the church, 2) the church’s ministry was specific to the latter days of the world, and 3) the church would consist of only the true saints acknowledged by Jesus Christ. Such a name would have sounded very appealing in a time of widely fluctuating doctrine. The LDS church put forward that theirs was the task of establishing the kingdom of God and of instituting the practices of Christian religion as God intended. These things together were commonly called “the restoration of the gospel” and were part of the restoration movement of the early 19th century."
Britannica explains:
https://www.britannica.com/story/roman-catholic-saints-hallowed-from-the-other-side
"In Roman Catholicism and certain other Christian faith traditions, a saint is a holy person who is known for his or her “heroic sanctity” and who is thought to be in heaven. In the 10th century, Pope John XV formalized a process for the identification of saints. Before that time, saints were largely established by public cult. There are more than 10,000 saints recognized by the Roman Catholic Church, though the names and histories of some of these holy men and women have been lost to history."
"The saints of the church are a diverse group of people with varied and interesting stories. Their ranks include martyrs, kings and queens, missionaries, widows, theologians, parents, nuns and priests, and “everyday people” who dedicated their lives to the loving pursuit of God. Religious and nonreligious people alike have found inspiration from their lives, particularly in the stories of saints who devoted themselves in service to the poor, sick, and disenfranchised, such as St. Mother Teresa and St. Vincent de Paul, among others. Many of the saints who were persecuted for their faith, such as St. Stephen and St. Perpetua, showed remarkable forgiveness and patiently suffered through their trials and tortures."
Wiki gives a more general overview:
"In religious belief, a saint is a person who is recognized as having an exceptional degree of holiness, likeness, or closeness to God. However, the use of the term saint depends on the context and denomination. In Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Oriental Orthodox, and Lutheran doctrine, all of their faithful deceased in Heaven are considered to be saints, but some are considered worthy of greater honor or emulation. Official ecclesiastical recognition, and consequently a public cult of veneration, is conferred on some denominational saints through the process of canonization in the Catholic Church or glorification in the Eastern Orthodox Church after their approval.
While the English word saint originated in Christianity, historians of religion tend to use the appellation "in a more general way to refer to the state of special holiness that many religions attribute to certain people", referring to the Jewish tzadik, the Islamic walī, the Hindu rishi or Sikh Bhagat and guru, the Shintoist kami, the Taoist shengren, and the Buddhist arhat or bodhisattva also as saints. Depending on the religion, saints are recognized either by official ecclesiastical declaration, as in the Catholic faith, or by popular acclamation (see folk saint).
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Loosely speaking, all Christian denominations teach that their members are saints.
Some are just more saintly than others, presumably. :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2023 04:36PM by Nightingale.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who are the saints? Are the saints the membership
> or the leaders?
They're all saints. :)
Here's a brief blurb about the origins of the name:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Latter-Day-Saints.html
"Primarily by the efforts of Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery, an organization formed and was named The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The name was reported to have come by revelation from Jesus Christ. It was to indicate three specific certainties: 1) Jesus Christ ordained the church, 2) the church’s ministry was specific to the latter days of the world, and 3) the church would consist of only the true saints acknowledged by Jesus Christ. Such a name would have sounded very appealing in a time of widely fluctuating doctrine. The LDS church put forward that theirs was the task of establishing the kingdom of God and of instituting the practices of Christian religion as God intended. These things together were commonly called “the restoration of the gospel” and were part of the restoration movement of the early 19th century."
Britannica explains:
https://www.britannica.com/story/roman-catholic-saints-hallowed-from-the-other-side
"In Roman Catholicism and certain other Christian faith traditions, a saint is a holy person who is known for his or her “heroic sanctity” and who is thought to be in heaven. In the 10th century, Pope John XV formalized a process for the identification of saints. Before that time, saints were largely established by public cult. There are more than 10,000 saints recognized by the Roman Catholic Church, though the names and histories of some of these holy men and women have been lost to history."
"The saints of the church are a diverse group of people with varied and interesting stories. Their ranks include martyrs, kings and queens, missionaries, widows, theologians, parents, nuns and priests, and “everyday people” who dedicated their lives to the loving pursuit of God. Religious and nonreligious people alike have found inspiration from their lives, particularly in the stories of saints who devoted themselves in service to the poor, sick, and disenfranchised, such as St. Mother Teresa and St. Vincent de Paul, among others. Many of the saints who were persecuted for their faith, such as St. Stephen and St. Perpetua, showed remarkable forgiveness and patiently suffered through their trials and tortures."
Wiki gives a more general overview:
"In religious belief, a saint is a person who is recognized as having an exceptional degree of holiness, likeness, or closeness to God. However, the use of the term saint depends on the context and denomination. In Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Oriental Orthodox, and Lutheran doctrine, all of their faithful deceased in Heaven are considered to be saints, but some are considered worthy of greater honor or emulation. Official ecclesiastical recognition, and consequently a public cult of veneration, is conferred on some denominational saints through the process of canonization in the Catholic Church or glorification in the Eastern Orthodox Church after their approval.
While the English word saint originated in Christianity, historians of religion tend to use the appellation "in a more general way to refer to the state of special holiness that many religions attribute to certain people", referring to the Jewish tzadik, the Islamic walī, the Hindu rishi or Sikh Bhagat and guru, the Shintoist kami, the Taoist shengren, and the Buddhist arhat or bodhisattva also as saints. Depending on the religion, saints are recognized either by official ecclesiastical declaration, as in the Catholic faith, or by popular acclamation (see folk saint).
-----
Loosely speaking, all Christian denominations teach that their members are saints.
Some are just more saintly than others, presumably. :)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2023 04:36PM by Nightingale.
It's gobbledygook that no one else had already registered at the time.
They couldn't get the "true" name, because it was already registered by another church.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2023 05:41PM by Gordon B. Stinky.
They couldn't get the "true" name, because it was already registered by another church.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2023 05:41PM by Gordon B. Stinky.
According to Joseph Smith there are two groups of saints. The first group were the followers of Christ when He lived in ancient times and supposedly established a church. That church became invalid after Jesus was crucified because the priesthood power died with Jesus, according to Joseph Smith. The second church was the Church Joseph "restored" in the 1830s: The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon)
To distinguish between the two churches, both whose followers Joseph called "saints", Joseph called his saints "latter day saints." He wanted his church to be called the Church of Jesus Christ but it was already taken so he settled for "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints." What a mouth full!
The term "saint" doesn't apply to the followers of Christ from the time Jesus was crucified (30 AD) till the time Joseph Smith started the Mormon church (1830 something). The followers of Christ during that span of about 1800 years didn't have the priesthood power (it was "lost" after Jesus was crucified) and were just "playing" church so they don't count. They count to the Catholics but not the Mormons. Also, Presbyterians, Catholics, Baptists, etc. also are not called saints because they don't belong to the "true" church. The only true saints today are Mormons.
To distinguish between the two churches, both whose followers Joseph called "saints", Joseph called his saints "latter day saints." He wanted his church to be called the Church of Jesus Christ but it was already taken so he settled for "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints." What a mouth full!
The term "saint" doesn't apply to the followers of Christ from the time Jesus was crucified (30 AD) till the time Joseph Smith started the Mormon church (1830 something). The followers of Christ during that span of about 1800 years didn't have the priesthood power (it was "lost" after Jesus was crucified) and were just "playing" church so they don't count. They count to the Catholics but not the Mormons. Also, Presbyterians, Catholics, Baptists, etc. also are not called saints because they don't belong to the "true" church. The only true saints today are Mormons.
Rattle Day Snakes
If you really want to move up, then you need to carry a ladder. A big one will allow you to climb to the top.
Look how much the Catholic Church has changed since Peter was at the head of it.
Because mormons believe in a prophet who receives cryptic notes from ghawd, along with fuzzy feelings and "impressions" (some of my "impressions" have scared the sh-t out of me!), they at least know that the changes are sanctioned of ghawd.
I wonder if there are TBMs who wish some of the changes were explained in a manner that would foster understanding to help them cope with 'change.'
I don't have the answer as to why ghawd saw fit to sever ties with the Boy Scouts of America; I know the church said it was because the BSA adopted changes that "pushed it away from the church" but couldn't something have been worked out? And what has replaced the role of the BSA in church life?
Same for doing away with Beehives, Mia Maids and Laurels: Why?
What the heck does this church announcement mean:
"Sister Cordon explained that in an effort to make class a safe, wonderful place for Young Women, it was time to ditch the three-class structure and embrace something more flexible.
"As such, effective immediately, there are to be no more
Laurel (ages 16-17),
Mia Maid, (ages 14-15),
or Beehive (ages 12-13) classes.
"The new system allows each congregation's bishop and Young Women leaders to determine how to divide class members based on their circumstances. For example, if a ward only has a few young women, only one class can be formed."
At these ages, 12 & 13 year olds don't have much in common with 16 & 17 year olds.
Oh, well, who am I to question ghawd?
Because mormons believe in a prophet who receives cryptic notes from ghawd, along with fuzzy feelings and "impressions" (some of my "impressions" have scared the sh-t out of me!), they at least know that the changes are sanctioned of ghawd.
I wonder if there are TBMs who wish some of the changes were explained in a manner that would foster understanding to help them cope with 'change.'
I don't have the answer as to why ghawd saw fit to sever ties with the Boy Scouts of America; I know the church said it was because the BSA adopted changes that "pushed it away from the church" but couldn't something have been worked out? And what has replaced the role of the BSA in church life?
Same for doing away with Beehives, Mia Maids and Laurels: Why?
What the heck does this church announcement mean:
"Sister Cordon explained that in an effort to make class a safe, wonderful place for Young Women, it was time to ditch the three-class structure and embrace something more flexible.
"As such, effective immediately, there are to be no more
Laurel (ages 16-17),
Mia Maid, (ages 14-15),
or Beehive (ages 12-13) classes.
"The new system allows each congregation's bishop and Young Women leaders to determine how to divide class members based on their circumstances. For example, if a ward only has a few young women, only one class can be formed."
At these ages, 12 & 13 year olds don't have much in common with 16 & 17 year olds.
Oh, well, who am I to question ghawd?