Recovery Board
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Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
I keep getting LDS links in my news feed. Maybe they know I post here and they're trying to get me to come back? (haha)
Yesterday's headline in Des News did catch my eye though:
"President Nelson asked President Ballard to help correct church’s name. Here’s how he led the Twelve."
I confess to some amusement at the headline. Who has to "correct" their church's name?
They try, I think, to make it sound like it's the outside world that's confused. But they've been happy enough to call themselves Mormons for all these decades. Suddenly, we need an English class to parse the various modes of address when it comes to Mormonism?
And they sound pretty happy that apparently the eager world is lapping up this timely Sunday School lesson from "the prophet" and switching to the latest terminology wrt the Mormon Church - oh sorry - I mean LDS - oh no - sorry - I mean The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Or more familiarly, just the Church of Jesus Christ. Because that is their witness to the world. Or a way of seeming more mainstream. Or holy. Or something.
What's so funny (to me anyway) is how many times in one brief article the word 'correction' is used. Why does the most correct church on earth need a correction when it comes to something as simple, and crucial, as its own name?
And it's worded somehow in such a way as to make it seem it's "the world" that made the mistake that needs to be "corrected".
If I were advising them, I would likely say not to make the correction part of it so prominent. Because if you are God's one true church that was restored, or whatever, why would you get the name wrong to start with? And then the weaselly leaders need to pretend it's outsiders who are using the wrong moniker?
Why would not the church founder know the right name to start off with? Why would other church leaders through all the decades not already know it and teach it and use it? Why the need for a long wait until the 21st C before Ballard et al finally set the world straight, including their own members, on the actual real best name, at last?
The instructions (stated below) about the various labels referring to the church needing to relate to proper nouns (say what? I'm not even sure I get what that means and I'm a grammar nerd) seem ponderous in the extreme. The church in my neighbourhood is just called The United Church. Others up the street are just called Pentecostal or Catholic. Not too fussy or long or difficult to recall and no need for a newspaper article to explain to everybody, church members included, when to use which title and specifically with which parts of speech (eg: "proper nouns").
Excerpts from the Des News article:
“President Russell M. Nelson began to emphasize the correct, full name of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints nearly three decades before he became its president.
“Eight months after he was ordained the church’s prophet and president, he announced in August 2018 the church no longer would use the terms “LDS” or “Mormon,” unless related to the Book of Mormon or other proper nouns.
“President Nelson set the tone and the course for a correction with that announcement and his general conference talk two months later. “The name of the church is not negotiable,” he said, because Christ himself had revealed it. “For much of the world, the Lord’s Church is presently disguised as the ‘Mormon Church.’”
“When we omit his name from his Church, we are inadvertently removing him as the central focus of our lives,” he said.
“How would the church correct its name across the world?
“As President Nelson said a year later in another general conference talk, he assigned President M. Russell Ballard, acting president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, to lead the entire quorum to institutionalize the correction.
“Suddenly, not long before President Nelson’s announcement, ChurchofJesusChrist.org was offered for sale. The church purchased it for “a very modest amount,” Elder Andersen said.
“Then ChurchofJesusChrist.com became available the month President Nelson announced the name correction, and the church scooped it up, too.
“It was a miracle,” Elder Andersen declared.
“The second signal the church was intent on carrying out President Nelson’s vision was changing the name of one of the church’s biggest international brands.
“The Mormon Tabernacle Choir willingly surrendered its name. Today it is known proudly as the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square.
“LDS Business College became Ensign College. Mormon.org was redirected into ChurchofJesusChrist.org.
“In all, over 1,000 products that had the name “Mormon” or “LDS” attached were renamed, Elder Andersen reported.
“The third and final stroke was changing the church’s symbol, or logo.
“President Nelson said he again enlisted President Ballard and the Quorum of the Twelve to oversee further emphasizing Christ at the center of the symbol representing the church.
“The world has taken note. Leaders of other religions, humanitarian officials, politicians, many journalists and others now regularly use the church’s full name.
“We have gone to these extraordinary efforts because when we remove the Lord’s name from the name of his church, we inadvertently remove him as the central focus of our worship and our lives,” he said.
“President Ballard said the correction would clarify the church’s messaging to the world.
“As this goes forward, it will become more and more evident in our literature, in our messaging, in anything where the church is connected, that we are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” President Ballard said. “It is part of the message of the ongoing restoration of the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ.”
-----
"The world has taken note" - good heavens - there's a lot going on. I don't think this teensy little LDS development makes a big enough splash to register on the universe, especially not when there are many meaningful, urgent, tragic, earth-shattering and everlasting situations occurring as we speak.
As for "miracles" - if such exist, please God could they be used for the good of humanity, not picayune administrative blips in a tiny little bubble - such as a web name becoming available for use by a small self-serving organization. That's what a Mormon leader ascribes to a miracle?
And what a stroke of (belated) genius - to change the LDS logo so everybody would know at a glance that it's a Christian organization. {{sarc}}
I'm glad they're sounding so happy. Maybe they think they're finally getting their act together. Weird that it could take this length of time.
The other thing I can never get used to (as I so often say) is how they emphasize 'Christ'. I knew an overbearing sister missionary who said it loud and proud all the time and it never once sounded reverent to me. Perhaps largely due to the fact that it was my dad's favourite form of emphasis. It just never sounds churchy to me - not like churches I'm familiar with where the term 'Jesus' is much more prevalent and not as 'sweary' in my ears.
OK, that was fun - over-analyzing their grammatical corrections - now do not forget which names one should use and especially when it's with or without the involvement of proper nouns.
Goofing off aside: It's kind of pitiful to me that they over-obsess about such basics, which you'd think they could have figured out long before now, when there are actual real and urgent issues occurring as we speak.
PS: From the article - “The name of the church is not negotiable,” he said, because Christ himself had revealed it."
If this is so, why did it take this long in the church's existence for Mormon prophets to get the message? Not too efficient!
Article (Des News):
https://www.deseret.com/2023/11/16/23953064/president-nelson-asked-president-ballard-to-help-correct-churchs-name-heres-how-he-led-the-twelve
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2023 10:58AM by Nightingale.
Yesterday's headline in Des News did catch my eye though:
"President Nelson asked President Ballard to help correct church’s name. Here’s how he led the Twelve."
I confess to some amusement at the headline. Who has to "correct" their church's name?
They try, I think, to make it sound like it's the outside world that's confused. But they've been happy enough to call themselves Mormons for all these decades. Suddenly, we need an English class to parse the various modes of address when it comes to Mormonism?
And they sound pretty happy that apparently the eager world is lapping up this timely Sunday School lesson from "the prophet" and switching to the latest terminology wrt the Mormon Church - oh sorry - I mean LDS - oh no - sorry - I mean The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Or more familiarly, just the Church of Jesus Christ. Because that is their witness to the world. Or a way of seeming more mainstream. Or holy. Or something.
What's so funny (to me anyway) is how many times in one brief article the word 'correction' is used. Why does the most correct church on earth need a correction when it comes to something as simple, and crucial, as its own name?
And it's worded somehow in such a way as to make it seem it's "the world" that made the mistake that needs to be "corrected".
If I were advising them, I would likely say not to make the correction part of it so prominent. Because if you are God's one true church that was restored, or whatever, why would you get the name wrong to start with? And then the weaselly leaders need to pretend it's outsiders who are using the wrong moniker?
Why would not the church founder know the right name to start off with? Why would other church leaders through all the decades not already know it and teach it and use it? Why the need for a long wait until the 21st C before Ballard et al finally set the world straight, including their own members, on the actual real best name, at last?
The instructions (stated below) about the various labels referring to the church needing to relate to proper nouns (say what? I'm not even sure I get what that means and I'm a grammar nerd) seem ponderous in the extreme. The church in my neighbourhood is just called The United Church. Others up the street are just called Pentecostal or Catholic. Not too fussy or long or difficult to recall and no need for a newspaper article to explain to everybody, church members included, when to use which title and specifically with which parts of speech (eg: "proper nouns").
Excerpts from the Des News article:
“President Russell M. Nelson began to emphasize the correct, full name of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints nearly three decades before he became its president.
“Eight months after he was ordained the church’s prophet and president, he announced in August 2018 the church no longer would use the terms “LDS” or “Mormon,” unless related to the Book of Mormon or other proper nouns.
“President Nelson set the tone and the course for a correction with that announcement and his general conference talk two months later. “The name of the church is not negotiable,” he said, because Christ himself had revealed it. “For much of the world, the Lord’s Church is presently disguised as the ‘Mormon Church.’”
“When we omit his name from his Church, we are inadvertently removing him as the central focus of our lives,” he said.
“How would the church correct its name across the world?
“As President Nelson said a year later in another general conference talk, he assigned President M. Russell Ballard, acting president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, to lead the entire quorum to institutionalize the correction.
“Suddenly, not long before President Nelson’s announcement, ChurchofJesusChrist.org was offered for sale. The church purchased it for “a very modest amount,” Elder Andersen said.
“Then ChurchofJesusChrist.com became available the month President Nelson announced the name correction, and the church scooped it up, too.
“It was a miracle,” Elder Andersen declared.
“The second signal the church was intent on carrying out President Nelson’s vision was changing the name of one of the church’s biggest international brands.
“The Mormon Tabernacle Choir willingly surrendered its name. Today it is known proudly as the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square.
“LDS Business College became Ensign College. Mormon.org was redirected into ChurchofJesusChrist.org.
“In all, over 1,000 products that had the name “Mormon” or “LDS” attached were renamed, Elder Andersen reported.
“The third and final stroke was changing the church’s symbol, or logo.
“President Nelson said he again enlisted President Ballard and the Quorum of the Twelve to oversee further emphasizing Christ at the center of the symbol representing the church.
“The world has taken note. Leaders of other religions, humanitarian officials, politicians, many journalists and others now regularly use the church’s full name.
“We have gone to these extraordinary efforts because when we remove the Lord’s name from the name of his church, we inadvertently remove him as the central focus of our worship and our lives,” he said.
“President Ballard said the correction would clarify the church’s messaging to the world.
“As this goes forward, it will become more and more evident in our literature, in our messaging, in anything where the church is connected, that we are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” President Ballard said. “It is part of the message of the ongoing restoration of the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ.”
-----
"The world has taken note" - good heavens - there's a lot going on. I don't think this teensy little LDS development makes a big enough splash to register on the universe, especially not when there are many meaningful, urgent, tragic, earth-shattering and everlasting situations occurring as we speak.
As for "miracles" - if such exist, please God could they be used for the good of humanity, not picayune administrative blips in a tiny little bubble - such as a web name becoming available for use by a small self-serving organization. That's what a Mormon leader ascribes to a miracle?
And what a stroke of (belated) genius - to change the LDS logo so everybody would know at a glance that it's a Christian organization. {{sarc}}
I'm glad they're sounding so happy. Maybe they think they're finally getting their act together. Weird that it could take this length of time.
The other thing I can never get used to (as I so often say) is how they emphasize 'Christ'. I knew an overbearing sister missionary who said it loud and proud all the time and it never once sounded reverent to me. Perhaps largely due to the fact that it was my dad's favourite form of emphasis. It just never sounds churchy to me - not like churches I'm familiar with where the term 'Jesus' is much more prevalent and not as 'sweary' in my ears.
OK, that was fun - over-analyzing their grammatical corrections - now do not forget which names one should use and especially when it's with or without the involvement of proper nouns.
Goofing off aside: It's kind of pitiful to me that they over-obsess about such basics, which you'd think they could have figured out long before now, when there are actual real and urgent issues occurring as we speak.
PS: From the article - “The name of the church is not negotiable,” he said, because Christ himself had revealed it."
If this is so, why did it take this long in the church's existence for Mormon prophets to get the message? Not too efficient!
Article (Des News):
https://www.deseret.com/2023/11/16/23953064/president-nelson-asked-president-ballard-to-help-correct-churchs-name-heres-how-he-led-the-twelve
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2023 10:58AM by Nightingale.
So what they are saying is that God was wrong and needed to be corrected.
They can't claim to be the inspired spokesman for God and then claim God didn't do something right. They try to claim that God "updates" what needs to change with the "current" prophet, but come on. God couldn't name his one true church the first time?
They can't claim to be the inspired spokesman for God and then claim God didn't do something right. They try to claim that God "updates" what needs to change with the "current" prophet, but come on. God couldn't name his one true church the first time?
After Rusty's early 1990s attempt to get rid of Mormon Church, two prophets of the almighty, never wrong, mormon ghawd corrected Rusty, with the first correction occurring at the subsequent GC, six months after Rusty's snit-fit about "mormon."
And previously, a number of prophets were on the record as being in favor of the word. I believe it was Ezra Model T Benson who sang "I am a mormon boy" on the stand during a session of GC, he was so tickled pink to be mormon.
And there is the fact that if you type in mormon.com or mormon.org on a search bar and hit 'enter,' you are immediately greeted by hunky, 'I'm-so-cute-I-could-be-an-underwear-model' Jesus H. Christ to support my contention that enough church officials know not to abandon the word on an absolute basis.
You know how we mock church officials for ignoring past events that embarrass them? That's what's going to happen as soon as a new model prophet is released on the market. They'll keep the church of christ website, but they'll be happy to go back to being mormons...and maybe even allowing humble, chaste tattoos!
Here's a suggestion, whoever is monitoring RfM this week for the SCMC: Start calling Stake Tattoo Artists, but he has to work in conjuction with your Stake Patriarch to come up with suitable, approved tattoos, and you have to current on your tithing!
And previously, a number of prophets were on the record as being in favor of the word. I believe it was Ezra Model T Benson who sang "I am a mormon boy" on the stand during a session of GC, he was so tickled pink to be mormon.
And there is the fact that if you type in mormon.com or mormon.org on a search bar and hit 'enter,' you are immediately greeted by hunky, 'I'm-so-cute-I-could-be-an-underwear-model' Jesus H. Christ to support my contention that enough church officials know not to abandon the word on an absolute basis.
You know how we mock church officials for ignoring past events that embarrass them? That's what's going to happen as soon as a new model prophet is released on the market. They'll keep the church of christ website, but they'll be happy to go back to being mormons...and maybe even allowing humble, chaste tattoos!
Here's a suggestion, whoever is monitoring RfM this week for the SCMC: Start calling Stake Tattoo Artists, but he has to work in conjuction with your Stake Patriarch to come up with suitable, approved tattoos, and you have to current on your tithing!
Audio of ETB in a video of mormon boys doing mormon s**t:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY7n3GuiX5E
(I distinctly recall watching the actual video of him warbling at GC, but can't find the link; probably taken down)
Also, Monson reciting "Dare to Be a Mormon" in 10/2011 GC -
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2011/10/dare-to-stand-alone?lang=eng#p24
Nelson is the first church prez who doesn't dare to be a mormon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY7n3GuiX5E
(I distinctly recall watching the actual video of him warbling at GC, but can't find the link; probably taken down)
Also, Monson reciting "Dare to Be a Mormon" in 10/2011 GC -
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2011/10/dare-to-stand-alone?lang=eng#p24
Nelson is the first church prez who doesn't dare to be a mormon.
>God couldn't name his one true church the first time?
Or the second time
or the third time
or the fourth time
or the fifth time
the spam code was DDEND is that a prophecy about the MORMON church?
Or the second time
or the third time
or the fourth time
or the fifth time
the spam code was DDEND is that a prophecy about the MORMON church?
dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what they are saying is that God was wrong and
> needed to be corrected.
Yes, I was thinking that, dagny. Why can't they see that? They haven't made the best word choice in selecting 'correction' and then emphasizing it so much.
To say that a correction is needed means their founding "prophet" JS got it wrong from the get-go and so did all their prophets ever since?
In a relatively short article the word 'correct' is used twice and the word 'correction' is stated 6 times. Eight times in one brief blurb they say to all the world that they have been doing it wrong since the church's inception.
You would think they would want to downplay the 'correction' concept, not go on and on and on about it.
So not only was JS not getting it right, none of the prophets from his day to theirs has done so until now either or otherwise a 'correction' would be unnecessary.
> God couldn't name his one true church the first
> time?
Yeah. Seems like that's what they're saying. I'm sure that's not the message they meant to convey. Nelson says: “When we omit his name from his Church, we are inadvertently removing him as the central focus of our lives”.
Again - what took so long for them to clue into this? I could actually feel sorry for them - fairly old men kind of blundering along, taking a fair amount of time to reposition the church to try and keep up.
Maybe if they could just relax and be more open (not having to be "the most correct" on earth) then modifications (aka changes) wouldn't be such a big deal.
It kind of reminds me of the WatchTower Society (JWs) having to constantly update their predictions about Armageddon. Once you make definitive statements about when the world is going to end it's a mite difficult to backtrack without losing all credibility (yet they try).
People in the prediction business have to be right, at least about the major things, because otherwise they just look like they don't know what on earth they're talking about.
If I were advising the Big-3 (lol) I would say Don't Say Correction.
And don't be so insistent about the right way to do every little thing.
Because you lose credibility every time you have to change horses in mid-stream.
Especially when you offer tortured explanations for the changes.
PS: I forgot to mention this again - a surpassingly peculiar statement in the article:
“For much of the world, the Lord’s Church is presently disguised as the ‘Mormon Church.’”
Huh? Could someone 'splain that to me please?
If he's saying the non-mos of the world aren't hearing the message due to the misnomer that is the church's known name, that's even more of a reason you'd think the prophets would have figured that out and 'corrected' it long before 2023 - nearly 2024. Or even that it's more of a reason that JS should have got it right the first time.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2023 12:55AM by Nightingale.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So what they are saying is that God was wrong and
> needed to be corrected.
Yes, I was thinking that, dagny. Why can't they see that? They haven't made the best word choice in selecting 'correction' and then emphasizing it so much.
To say that a correction is needed means their founding "prophet" JS got it wrong from the get-go and so did all their prophets ever since?
In a relatively short article the word 'correct' is used twice and the word 'correction' is stated 6 times. Eight times in one brief blurb they say to all the world that they have been doing it wrong since the church's inception.
You would think they would want to downplay the 'correction' concept, not go on and on and on about it.
So not only was JS not getting it right, none of the prophets from his day to theirs has done so until now either or otherwise a 'correction' would be unnecessary.
> God couldn't name his one true church the first
> time?
Yeah. Seems like that's what they're saying. I'm sure that's not the message they meant to convey. Nelson says: “When we omit his name from his Church, we are inadvertently removing him as the central focus of our lives”.
Again - what took so long for them to clue into this? I could actually feel sorry for them - fairly old men kind of blundering along, taking a fair amount of time to reposition the church to try and keep up.
Maybe if they could just relax and be more open (not having to be "the most correct" on earth) then modifications (aka changes) wouldn't be such a big deal.
It kind of reminds me of the WatchTower Society (JWs) having to constantly update their predictions about Armageddon. Once you make definitive statements about when the world is going to end it's a mite difficult to backtrack without losing all credibility (yet they try).
People in the prediction business have to be right, at least about the major things, because otherwise they just look like they don't know what on earth they're talking about.
If I were advising the Big-3 (lol) I would say Don't Say Correction.
And don't be so insistent about the right way to do every little thing.
Because you lose credibility every time you have to change horses in mid-stream.
Especially when you offer tortured explanations for the changes.
PS: I forgot to mention this again - a surpassingly peculiar statement in the article:
“For much of the world, the Lord’s Church is presently disguised as the ‘Mormon Church.’”
Huh? Could someone 'splain that to me please?
If he's saying the non-mos of the world aren't hearing the message due to the misnomer that is the church's known name, that's even more of a reason you'd think the prophets would have figured that out and 'corrected' it long before 2023 - nearly 2024. Or even that it's more of a reason that JS should have got it right the first time.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2023 12:55AM by Nightingale.
They have balls, correcting jesus revelation of the name as given in 1838 or so. Latter Day..., Not Latter-day.
Really, they correct Jesus direct revelation stating the name?
Really, they correct Jesus direct revelation stating the name?
What a cart full of horse... dodo.
I was taught/told/ordered, when asked if I was Christian to loudly and proudly proclaim No I am MORMON! I will always and only use mormon. I was also taught that we were a peculiar people and that we should be damn proud of it. If they want to be what they now perceive as mainstream that is their problem.
I was taught/told/ordered, when asked if I was Christian to loudly and proudly proclaim No I am MORMON! I will always and only use mormon. I was also taught that we were a peculiar people and that we should be damn proud of it. If they want to be what they now perceive as mainstream that is their problem.
Were you forced to go trick or treating the Saturday before Halloween too? And forced to explain it because you are MORMON. We were both in So Cal but I think you are a bit older.
We had Saturday trick-or-treating in the cultural hall when it was Sunday halloween... This was in Las Vegas (which, since it's not Utah, is basically the same as SoCal).
As for supposing that I'm older... HOW DARE YOU!!!
As for supposing that I'm older... HOW DARE YOU!!!
I would have LOVED to do it in the cultural hall. I got dragged out and forced to go door to door in the neighborhood. To the houses of school mates. I heard about it for years.
I think you are older just going by music you mention :)
I think you are older just going by music you mention :)
> I think you are older just going
> on the music you mention :)
I've decided that "The Music I Mention" is a hill on which I am willing to die . . .
> on the music you mention :)
I've decided that "The Music I Mention" is a hill on which I am willing to die . . .
Eternally, and forever, and as it always should be, you were only mistaken and confused and the bits condensed into the informative article help to only confirm what happened.
It's all your fault.
Pffft.. we forgive you!
I know I know, you're so relieved.
It's all so very Mormonesque, LOL..
It's all your fault.
Pffft.. we forgive you!
I know I know, you're so relieved.
It's all so very Mormonesque, LOL..
They could have said further light & knowledge & avoided correction altogether. Why didn't they think of that?
Nightingale Wrote:
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> They could have said further light & knowledge &
> avoided correction altogether. Why didn't they
> think of that?
Oh no no no no... See, you're thinking wrongistly (sorry) again.
Never missing opportunity to blame and assign fault to the members and other minions in the world.
They have their newest badge as an icon, newest name, even have had Jesus as more handsome and even more familiar, and now an associated theme song might be appropriated.
What'd ya say, maybe We ARE The Champions by Queen?
Too strong?
-------------------------------------------------------
> They could have said further light & knowledge &
> avoided correction altogether. Why didn't they
> think of that?
Oh no no no no... See, you're thinking wrongistly (sorry) again.
Never missing opportunity to blame and assign fault to the members and other minions in the world.
They have their newest badge as an icon, newest name, even have had Jesus as more handsome and even more familiar, and now an associated theme song might be appropriated.
What'd ya say, maybe We ARE The Champions by Queen?
Too strong?
There are a million things wrong in today's world and they choose to focus on the silliest things that matter not.
Read the comments section, that is a whole thread that can be started.
Cleanup on aisle three!
Unfortunately for CoJCoLDS, the name of "The Lord's Own Church," -- The Church of Jesus Christ -- is already taken by another religious organization. And why must the Mormons appropriate someone else's image of Jesus? Have they no decent artists of their own?
Another MORMON church.
Still does not stop MFMC from appropriating the name.
Even as the name thieves still have Mormon.org for a website.
Still does not stop MFMC from appropriating the name.
Even as the name thieves still have Mormon.org for a website.
Rusty is the church's corrections officer. Try to stay in line so he doesn't have to use his nightstick.
I thought changes were supposed to be called "continuing restoration".
I thought changes were supposed to be called "continuing restoration".
Despite it all most will still refer to it as the Mormon Church.
Nowadays if you say Mormon in a group of Mormons it sorta like you passed nasty gas in the middle the group.
Actually funny in a third grader kind of way.
Actually funny in a third grader kind of way.
What an amazingly well written post Nightingale about such an arcane topic among non-Mormons. Only Mormons seem to care about this nonsense regarding a name. You should be a professional writer. This one was exemplary.
Agree! Nighty nailed it.
I might add that the church should not be surprised that the rest of the world calls them Mormons when they still teach about the BoM. If they successfully ditch the BoM someday, THEN maybe the word Mormon can go down the memory hole. They think they are looking more Christian, but instead they are looking controlling and thin skinned.
I might add that the church should not be surprised that the rest of the world calls them Mormons when they still teach about the BoM. If they successfully ditch the BoM someday, THEN maybe the word Mormon can go down the memory hole. They think they are looking more Christian, but instead they are looking controlling and thin skinned.
I read an account that some current Mormon missionaries are carrying bibles with them, but not copies of the Book of Mormon. Perhaps the church is trying to de-emphasize the BoM.
I'm going to keep on saying, "Mormon." Rusty is throwing a tantrum at the members about it, but there's not much he can do to stop the nonmembers from saying it. Plus much of the media has been uncooperative or only somewhat cooperative. One wonders if the next church president will quietly reintroduce the term.
I'm going to keep on saying, "Mormon." Rusty is throwing a tantrum at the members about it, but there's not much he can do to stop the nonmembers from saying it. Plus much of the media has been uncooperative or only somewhat cooperative. One wonders if the next church president will quietly reintroduce the term.
Thank you so much, Eric, for your very kind comments. You've made my day!
I do do a bit of writing. It comes especially easy for me when it's a subject I care deeply about or when certain things really tick me off. :)
Half the time I feel sorry for the ancients who have spent decades in a really very boring and mediocre church, some of whom call themselves prophets, and yet it takes them all these years to finally figure out what the heck they want to call themselves.
It's kind of amusing, yet sad too, that now they have to expend such effort, not to mention tithing dollars, sorting out what most people and organizations can do the first time 'round - getting their name right. It's pretty basic.
And yet they believe they are the chosen.
It's pitiful. I actually feel sorry for them - an entire lifetime consumed within the stultifying atmosphere that is Mormonism - whatever they end up wanting to call it.
It bugs me though when I see them trying to blame outsiders for not using the correct terminology. Mormon leaders are the ones who make it confusing, first wanting to be different, now wanting to blend into the crowd.
The most correct book on earth. For time and all eternity.
Except for when the editors are called in to write updates. Then it's called revelation or clarification or even blamed on members and non-members that it's their fault the wrong name is used or a negative impression is given.
I agree with those who say in effect that it will be a thousand years, if then, before CoJCoLDS can successfully ditch their troublesome moniker.
And JS and all the others brought it on themselves.
I'm sure we're going to get tired of hearing the Big-3 harping on about what their bloody name is. It's actually an amazingly pitifully picayune issue, as I said above, especially in light of all the real world problems people grapple with every second of every hour of every day of their entire lives.
And the Mormon leaders think it's a gift from on high when a dot org becomes available for them to grab in their updating/revamping efforts about something the world doesn't even care about - at all.
And that's what they call a miracle?
Pitiful.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2023 04:02PM by Nightingale.
I do do a bit of writing. It comes especially easy for me when it's a subject I care deeply about or when certain things really tick me off. :)
Half the time I feel sorry for the ancients who have spent decades in a really very boring and mediocre church, some of whom call themselves prophets, and yet it takes them all these years to finally figure out what the heck they want to call themselves.
It's kind of amusing, yet sad too, that now they have to expend such effort, not to mention tithing dollars, sorting out what most people and organizations can do the first time 'round - getting their name right. It's pretty basic.
And yet they believe they are the chosen.
It's pitiful. I actually feel sorry for them - an entire lifetime consumed within the stultifying atmosphere that is Mormonism - whatever they end up wanting to call it.
It bugs me though when I see them trying to blame outsiders for not using the correct terminology. Mormon leaders are the ones who make it confusing, first wanting to be different, now wanting to blend into the crowd.
The most correct book on earth. For time and all eternity.
Except for when the editors are called in to write updates. Then it's called revelation or clarification or even blamed on members and non-members that it's their fault the wrong name is used or a negative impression is given.
I agree with those who say in effect that it will be a thousand years, if then, before CoJCoLDS can successfully ditch their troublesome moniker.
And JS and all the others brought it on themselves.
I'm sure we're going to get tired of hearing the Big-3 harping on about what their bloody name is. It's actually an amazingly pitifully picayune issue, as I said above, especially in light of all the real world problems people grapple with every second of every hour of every day of their entire lives.
And the Mormon leaders think it's a gift from on high when a dot org becomes available for them to grab in their updating/revamping efforts about something the world doesn't even care about - at all.
And that's what they call a miracle?
Pitiful.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2023 04:02PM by Nightingale.
The phrase "further light & knowledge" should only be used while keeping in mind that Joseph Smith also taught that you can recognize a false "revelation" if it contradicts a previous revelation.
Just remember that "church of jesus christ of latter day saints" is its fourth name.
For all their blather, they still have no short appellation that can be used to refer to "a member of TCOJCOLDS", which when spelled out in its full glory is FIFTEEN <bleeping> syllables.
The mainstream media has actually been pretty good about referring to the church by its full name on first reference, and then using something like LDS on subsequent references. Yes, I know LDS is not on their approved list, but the full name more than once is ridiculous. Lines must be drawn somewhere.
The MSM tends to use "Mormon" when quoting other people using the term. McKay Coppins used it extensively when quoting Mitt Romney in Coppins recent book about Romney. Romney, like most Mormons, refers to members as Mormons, because there is no other reasonable alternative, other than the generic "church members".
I bet that a hundred years from now, the term "Mormon" will still be universally recognized and widely used at least in the US. In much of the world, it has never been universally recognized, pesky missionaries notwithstanding.
The mainstream media has actually been pretty good about referring to the church by its full name on first reference, and then using something like LDS on subsequent references. Yes, I know LDS is not on their approved list, but the full name more than once is ridiculous. Lines must be drawn somewhere.
The MSM tends to use "Mormon" when quoting other people using the term. McKay Coppins used it extensively when quoting Mitt Romney in Coppins recent book about Romney. Romney, like most Mormons, refers to members as Mormons, because there is no other reasonable alternative, other than the generic "church members".
I bet that a hundred years from now, the term "Mormon" will still be universally recognized and widely used at least in the US. In much of the world, it has never been universally recognized, pesky missionaries notwithstanding.
Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I bet that a hundred years from now, the term
> "Mormon" will still be universally recognized and
> widely used at least in the US. In much of the
> world, it has never been universally recognized,
> pesky missionaries notwithstanding.
I agree. Mormon. Mormon. Mormon. It's the Mormon church. They are Mormon people. It is the Mormon religion.
But they're stuck with these long phrases they seem to like to call themselves and their church when most people these days like short and descriptive and accurate.
They're Mormons.
The only way to eradicate the name (which would take decades) would be to change the title of their book. As long as they're handing out BoMs they're Mormons to outsiders.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I bet that a hundred years from now, the term
> "Mormon" will still be universally recognized and
> widely used at least in the US. In much of the
> world, it has never been universally recognized,
> pesky missionaries notwithstanding.
I agree. Mormon. Mormon. Mormon. It's the Mormon church. They are Mormon people. It is the Mormon religion.
But they're stuck with these long phrases they seem to like to call themselves and their church when most people these days like short and descriptive and accurate.
They're Mormons.
The only way to eradicate the name (which would take decades) would be to change the title of their book. As long as they're handing out BoMs they're Mormons to outsiders.
For me, in the media I've seen the full name on first reference, and then the reporter will say something like, "commonly known as the Mormons."
And I'm a mormon.
You already know the phrase, "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" (the more things change, the more things stay the same!
They sure wouldn't be exactly whom they have become if they surely didn't do something so predictive and dumb like shell companies to first horde tons and tons of cash, instantly followed up with another shell game to try and hide their actual name.
Yup yup, you gotta be at least partially blind to the facts to be a Mormon.
They wouldn't have it any other way.
Put that, in the missionary handbook.
They sure wouldn't be exactly whom they have become if they surely didn't do something so predictive and dumb like shell companies to first horde tons and tons of cash, instantly followed up with another shell game to try and hide their actual name.
Yup yup, you gotta be at least partially blind to the facts to be a Mormon.
They wouldn't have it any other way.
Put that, in the missionary handbook.
It's a gift to the passive aggressive.
They know full well THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST is the legal name of another church.
Another mormon group.
They figure if challenged they can bankrupt them in court filings and delays.
Dishonest as Joe Smith.
Another mormon group.
They figure if challenged they can bankrupt them in court filings and delays.
Dishonest as Joe Smith.