Is it a good thing if a guy says he likes a woman who needs him?
This was stated in response to a remark by a never-Mormon who said he likes that his girlfriend doesn’t need him—she has her own career and is highly educated/PhD.
The Mormon’s response became extra cringy when you factor in that he isn’t bringing home the bacon: 5 kids on about a $45,000 annual salary/household income.
For the college-educated nevermo men that I know, it's pretty much expected that their wives will spend much or most of their adult lives working. They like that the burdens of supporting a family are shared. I knew one man whose Wall Street wife earned more than he did, and while he admitted it was a bit of an ego blow, he did appreciate the lifestyle her earnings afforded them.
I've never understood this male "ego blow" idea. First of all, my wife would never have stayed with me if she couldn't work... She'd have gone mad. Secondly, she has ALWAYS earned more than me and I'm very glad that she has because otherwise we would be much poorer. My ego is not involved ;-)
Once again, she nails it! I don't know if I'm a "strong man" but I don't allow my ego to run things or make decisions. I am a very independent thinker and have strong boundaries.
when we got together, I told my wife who I love dearly, that I want to be with someone that wants to be with me rather than needs to be with me. I want to be with my wife, but don't need to be with her. It would be sad and a huge adjustment, but I would go on and so would she. If she came home one day and said "I don't want to be with you and I'm leaving" I would accept that. That's much better than I don't want be with you but am staying because I need to.
When someone gets to "I need to be with you" it starts getting creepy and sometimes ends up up as "if I can't have you then no one can!"
When I hear someone say they want a woman who needs him, I think three things:
He wants the woman dependent. This means he wants full control over her and she will have no way to leave.
He feels threatened that she might be better or smarter than him in some way.
He doesn't think women should be allowed to be providers or achieve all they want to be.
If a man or woman do not encourage their spouse in all ways, including being an intellectual equal, that was a red flag for me, even when I was Mormon.
For me the guys in the nerd section of the honors library turned out to be far more interesting than the gym rats. I mean, you gotta talk about something after the 5 minutes in bed, right?
When I left my insular community and went away to serious places, I got a taste of relatively equal relationships. It was there that I learned additionally how healthy and loving families worked, something I had not observed in my Mormon world.
PS: Thanks for the "may" as opposed to "might." Grammar nerds everywhere are jumping with joy.
when I was 28, I decided to be a stay at home mom. He wanted me to be, too. I had no money to call my own. I'm not assertive. When the twins were 8 months old I went out looking for a job without telling him. When he found out I was looking, he foudn me a job at the hospital he worked at doing medical transcription, which I still do to this day at home. My twins just turned 38.
I don't need a boss. I don't need someone to make me tell them every penny I spend.
And what would I have done it I didn't have a job and he left, like he did, and I raised the kids and paid the house payment, etc., with very little help from him in ANY FASHION. No food money, no clothes money, no school fees, no gifts.
When I got into a second relationship, I made the rule that we didn't share finances and we don't. I always paid my fair share of anything we did. I insisted. I start to feel like I owe them something. Husband and boyfriend are both bossy and I had to go against my mormon upbringing to be submissive to men.
The men I ended up with actually needed me more than I needed them.
My first wife refused to work and refused to do much of anything else. That first marriage taught me what I really wanted in a relationship.
I am a highly independent person, and I prefer a highly independent partner, since marriage to me is secondary and commitment is first to a successful relationship. Which with my second wife I have, she does her own thing and I do not interfere. We rarely have disagreements, and if we do we settle them through a calm conversation. My only complaint is that I wish she was better at not spending money (Ha Ha).
Successful couples compliment each other, instead of one or the other relying. I encourage all my children and grand children to get an education and advance themselves, and not rely upon someone else for their needs.
Silence is Golden Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My first wife refused to work and refused to do > much of anything else. That first marriage taught > me what I really wanted in a relationship. > > I am a highly independent person, and I prefer a > highly independent partner, since marriage to me > is secondary and commitment is first to a > successful relationship. Which with my second > wife I have, she does her own thing and I do not > interfere. We rarely have disagreements, and if > we do we settle them through a calm conversation. > My only complaint is that I wish she was better at > not spending money (Ha Ha). > > Successful couples compliment each other, instead > of one or the other relying. I encourage all my > children and grand children to get an education > and advance themselves, and not rely upon someone > else for their needs.
Your first wife refused to work?
I always thought there was some of that going on. I mean one Mormon I know worked at Walmart until she found her "Prince Charming," and in three weeks she quit Walmart and was engaged.
I always thought that she used marriage as a way to get out of working. (At Walmart, I can't blame here. But she had forgone school too.)
I suggested she get out of the house, develop a career, be independent, and have some money she could spend on herself. But no, she refused.
I would leave for work in the morning and she would be lying on the couch. I returned late in the evening after being at work and taking night classes as a non-traditional student. She would still be on the couch. Always a reason to not do something, unless the missionaries wanted a ride, then she was up and driving them all over the place. Sometimes she would not get home until midnight after dropping them off, or making them a dinner. Don't get me started on the missionary bit, the local leaders looked the other way on that one.
So, maybe I'm reading something into this thread that isn't there, but are many saying that a woman isn't considered strong and independent unless she's highly educated and has a career?
I'm educated, but did the Mormon SAHM thing because I thought it was the right thing to do at the time. Turns out, I liked it. I liked being with my kids. I liked being the one who raised them. I'm really good at running a household. I'm very creative and handy and can fix just about anything around the house. Among many other things, I've always done all the house and yard work and managed our family finances.
However, the years that I spent with my kids came with a trade off that I didn't understand that I was making many years ago when I became a SAHM. I am not financially independent. I'm dependent on my husband to provide for me. I work part-time now that my kids are mostly grown, but I realize now that the years that I spent with my kids definitely put me at a financial disadvantage. Going back to work in my fifties has been difficult. Even though I kept my credentials and skills current, there don't seem to be many opportunities. But I don't think this makes me a person who isn't strong or independent. I mean, I did walk away from the church on my own ten years ago to the immense displeasure of my TBM husband. That's not a task for the weak.
I feel like sometimes women in the church are talked about in a way that feels unfair and often derogatory. There are jokes about the high number of Mormon SAHMs or shallow Mormon women who just want a perfect priesthood holder to take care of them. As much as I dislike the church, I really don't see many Mormon women this way. Often, they are women who are raising (or raised) a passel of children on their own with limited funds while their husbands spend a great deal of time away with work and church responsibilities. They are strong and independent women in their own way even if they're dependent on a man to provide for them. I think that we shouldn't forget that Mormon women are in a system that works hard to limit their opportunities and independence. A Mormon woman needs a priesthood that she will never be able to get on her own in order to get to heaven, so it isn't a far stretch to think that many Mormon women may not feel confident in their ability to pursue education or to provide materially for themselves or their family.
It's not a one size fits all situation. Being strong and independent can take different forms. It involves being able to make your own decisions, and confidence. I've met SAHMs who are owned and SAHMS who are more confident and independent than anyone.
want2bx Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > . . . are many saying that a woman > isn't considered strong and independent unless > she's highly educated and has a career?
I think we are saying women should have the choice. They should have enough resources of all sorts to do what they want.