https://religionnews.com/2023/07/25/irish-mormons-face-dwindling-numbers-but-researcher-finds-their-community-inspirational/

"Ireland has a complicated and bitter history with its former colonizer, England. You write how it can be hard for Irish Latter-day Saints that the church’s administrative structure lumps it together with the U.K.

"I was really quite surprised at the extent of some of the bitterness I encountered from some people towards how the church bundles Ireland with the UK. Many Irish church members were saying they felt that Ireland and the U.K. were already overlooked, because the church still has such an American focus. This also affects missionary efforts. Ireland is bundled with Scotland as a mission area. This means the church does not always fully appreciate how member recruitment might differ in the Republic of Ireland to Northern Ireland, or Scotland, because of cultural differences."

Most traditional Irish socials are based around alcohol or tea. It's not a good fit.

Look at what's happened to Mexico and its traditions!!

When will a Mariachi band play at General Conference?

Certainly not until you agree to leave your sombreros outside.

Would you ask ghawd to leave his sombrero outside?

Trick question!

It seems to me the UK gets more recognition from SLC than it really deserves, purely for historical reasons. It had the first European temple, and both the greatest effort and success at recruitment in Europe. I suppose it is still the country with the most Mormons in Europe, but that bar is set pretty low.

As for Ireland being lumped together with the UK, that is purely a geographic/linguistic decision. Would they be better off lumped in with France? Spain? Germany? The Canadian Atlantic Provinces?

I expect in the not too distant future, all of western Europe will be a single region for LDS Inc admin purposes.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems to me the UK gets more recognition from
> SLC than it really deserves, purely for historical
> reasons. It had the first European temple, and
> both the greatest effort and success at
> recruitment in Europe. I suppose it is still the
> country with the most Mormons in Europe, but that
> bar is set pretty low.
>
> As for Ireland being lumped together with the UK,
> that is purely a geographic/linguistic decision.
> Would they be better off lumped in with France?
> Spain? Germany? The Canadian Atlantic Provinces?
>
> I expect in the not too distant future, all of
> western Europe will be a single region for LDS Inc
> admin purposes.


Why lump all of these places together? Ireland fought a war to get out of the UK. Some of it (six counties/Northern Ireland) is still in the UK and the church can't understand there are two distinct traditions in Northern Ireland. I was visiting Cavehill ward and there was someone praying for the British army at the opening of sacrament. Anyone from a nationalist/Roman Catholic background would have run a mile.

They have even less understanding of the Scottish situation. A lot of Scots aren't into singing "God save the King/Queen" and waving the British flag either, yet I've seen that in Mormon services. The best part is that they pretend to be apolitical!

They are lumped together because there aren't enough Mormons or converts in any of those countries to justify an LDS region for each of them. I would think that is obvious.

If you are going to go all nationalist, then why have an essentially American religion in Europe at all? That is basically the attitude that most Europeans implicitly, if not explicitly, take toward Mormonism.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are lumped together because there aren't
> enough Mormons or converts in any of those
> countries to justify an LDS region for each of
> them. I would think that is obvious.
>
> If you are going to go all nationalist, then why
> have an essentially American religion in Europe at
> all? That is basically the attitude that most
> Europeans implicitly, if not explicitly, take
> toward Mormonism.

There aren't many countries in Western Europe that have had active guerilla warfare and military attacks on civilians in the last thirty years. Ireland is one of them. Many people in Ireland (including some in the North) despise the British presence there. Some of the people in Northern Ireland love it of course, which is why the LDS have mostly succeeded in converting those people and not the other lot.

When it comes to overseas affairs, the LDS is like a bull in a china shop. I'm also thinking of those missionary idiots in Thailand some years ago who did atupid things to a Buddha statue.

How are the Mayans treated in Ireland?

They're a joke.  

If you want to provoke laughter in any nook, cranny or rincón in or on Ireland, just mention that you're having Mayans over for dinner.

> . . . just mention
> that you're having Mayans over for dinner.

You have no idea, Jesus H, how hard I have had to work to refrain from cracking that joke.

The struggle is real!

Yep. I read at least 100,000 people in Northern Ireland have severe PTSD due to the "Troubles".

Maybe LD$ Inc.will be on the receiving end of some of those amazing Irish insults.

Well, we know that Mormons don't care about any history but their own, and don't care about the culture and traditions of anyone beyond Utah. So they're ignorant as all hell even going into this challenge. One LDS mission should tip us all off to their failures:

The Mormons opened the Greece mission back in 1988. The creation of the mission highlights the lack of cultural knowledge and sensitivity in a typically Mormon way. You bring a lot of know-nothing young men --kids, really -- into an area with uncommonly strong culture, then overlay an upstart American religion on top of a culture that took centuries to congeal. "They'll love it!!" say all the church authorities. "It's a formula that has worked for over 150 years!" But with Greece, Greek Orthodoxy is far more than religion. Orthodoxy is woven into the very threads of the Greek culture and identity. They think, "We can make it work wit faith in the Lord Jebus Christ!" But, uh... No, they can't. I kept track of the Mormon missionary effort there for a few decades now. Last I looked, 40+ years of "labour" (so called) brought them a small branch in Athens, and a smaller branch in Thessaloniki, according to cumorah.com. Most of the members of the two branches are ex-pats who work there at places like the American Embassy and the American Consulate in Thessaloniki.

It was a move of significant ignorance and cultural indifference. This time, however, Greece didn't have to pay any kind of price, but the LDS church sure did. Ditto-plus the hapless missionaries. But I am no longer current with Mormon efforts in Greece.

Right!

To whom are the mormons NOT insensitive?

Oh, there's a list of such people, but no one I will tolerate would want to be on it.

Bingo. I’m amazed the church does well anywhere, like Brazil, Mexico, Philippines, West Africa. And it obviously does not do well anywhere in Europe. Ireland is going to have to wait in line if they want to be recognized for not liking Mormons.

It sounds like Greece is ripe for a Mormon temple! Perhaps there is some land available right near the Parthenon.

Most of the members in Greece these days are migrants, often from groups Patrick Kearon favors. I knew someone who served in the Greek mission years ago but things have changed. Greek Orthodoxy as a symbol of anti-Turkish resistance is a parallel to Romanism in Ireland.

How many active members are there in Ireland?