Th SLTrib ran a major article today about a proposal to expand the LDS Temple Square complex - about 30 acres presently, to 80 acres. The planning document was drawn up in 2020, and was recently leaked to the Trib. I think it was more of a serious spitballing proposal, rather than firm plans to do anything, but it was pretty breathtaking in scope.

The article was "subscribers only", and I'll respect that, but I can recite the major points. I fully expect that the local television stations will soon be covering this story, and I will post a link when that becomes available.

Right now Temple Square is west of Main street, and the COB, Church Administration Building (the granite neoclassical building built in the early 20th century), RS building, JS Memorial Building, and Beehive house are in the block east of Main Street.

West of W Temple St is the Family History Museum. North of North Temple is the Conference Center and the Church History Museum.

So those are the main properties now. There are some other minor parks and buildings.

THe proposal is to expand the two blocks between N and S Temple from a two block strip into a 6 block strip, one block to the east of State Street, and 3 blocks west of W Temple, extending clear to Gateway complex.

Also expand the two blocks north of N Temple to cover the entire blocks. Each SLC block is ten acres, so the entire complex would be 80 acres. That is a lot of land in the heart of a city.

The proposal called for tearing down the COB, Church Administration Building, and JS Memorial Building (aka old Hotel Utah), but leave the Beehive House complex.

It also calls for tearing down the Plaza Hotel, which is on church-owned land. The Church already owns almost all the land in the proposal. The three blocks west of Temple Square have been underutilized for decades, and the city administration has wanted the LDS Church to do something with them for a long time. The third block, down by the Delta Center, is basically a ten acre surface parking lot.

the church offices would be moved down to the west end, near the Delta Center, which is also close to TRAX and the interstate exits. The Assembly Hall on Temple Square would be disassembled and moved to the west end near Gateway Complex.

A fully functional "mini-temple" is proposed east of the SL Temple. It would be in permanent "open-house" status, so tourists could enter the mini temple and see the baptistry, sealing rooms, endowment theater. The mini-temple would be used for special church temple events. at which point it would be "dedicated", the event held, and then it would revert to "open house" status.


All in all, it is a spectacularly ambitious plan. There are plans for some sort of transportation system. Eighty acres is a lot of land to cover on foot. Several major cross streets would be impacted, notably State, W Temple and 300 W. An underground tunnel is proposed for State, a roundabout at 300W, and I'm not sure what at W Temple.

My first impression when I saw the drawing of the plan was that it looked like a theme park.

One of the city planners who commented said the same thing, or that it looked like to would be an island in the middle of the city, not particularly well connected to the rest of the city. Neither a theme park feel, or separate island feel would be good for the city in the planner's opinion.

The Church did authenticate the plans, but said they had never been formally proposed to or approved by the Q15, and that considerable input from the city and city residents would be needed yada yada yada.

But the scope is kind of breathtaking. It would cost billions of dollars. It would be 2/3rds the size of Vatican City. It really couldn't get started before the Temple Square overhaul were mostly complete which is scheduled for 2026. As envisioned, there is no way IMHO it could be started in 2026 and finished in time for the Winter Olympics in 2034.

Stay tuned. I am sure there will be more developments about this leaked document (100+ pages)

Vatican City without the art.

That seems to be their goal. Their arrogance is endless.

Yep.

And why is it that the Mormons have genuinely terrible art? Can they not afford better?

The first thing I saw upon entering St. Peter's, Rome, was Michelangelo's "La Pieta." Later, I toured the Sistine Chapel to see Michelangelo's famed frescoes. The chapel also has artworks by Botticelli, Rafael, and other famous artists.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And why is it that the Mormons have genuinely
> terrible art? Can they not afford better?
>
> The first thing I saw upon entering St. Peter's,
> Rome, was Michelangelo's "La Pieta." Later, I
> toured the Sistine Chapel to see Michelangelo's
> famed frescoes. The chapel also has artworks by
> Botticelli, Rafael, and other famous artists.

Yeah. They're never going to beat that. Ever. No matter what.

Another way to destroy downtown Salt Lake.

At first I thought the makeover might include housing and services for the poor. But no, we are talking about the Mormon "religion."

They seriously have too much money and nothing to spend it on but tinkering with self-aggrandizing buildings.

I didn't think the COB was that old. Surely they could repurpose it? Maybe they are redoing things to incorporate earthquake standards? Maybe they got tired of people making penis jokes about the COB.

We kid about them wanting to create their own Vatican, but I don't think it is far from the truth.

I think having too much money might be the biggest disaster for the church. They are just spending because they can. This really gives the church a bad image to it’s members and outsiders.

The Hotel Utah and Church Administration Building are two historical buildings. None of the previous prophets would tear those down. This is Russel M Nelson wanting to redo everything. He’s crazy.

You're being too generous. The Hotel Utah is historical, over 110 years old. But the Church Office Building is a sterile modern structure that dates to the 1970s.

I am surprised they would tear down the old hotel. But surely no one cares about the office building.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2023 08:44PM by Lot's Wife.

The COB better not be torn down after all the time I spent getting the HVAC system to work correctly !

Maybe they'll let you keep the air conditioners?

How can the COB be torn down if touching the building will make it unclean?

You’re confusing the COB with the older CAB, where the Q15 have their offices.

The COB is fifty-ish years old, probably electronically outdated, doesn’t meet modern earthquake standards, is difficult to get to for commuters, and is kind of an eyesore. Moving the offices over near 400 W is not a half-bad idea IMHO.

Thanks for the clarification.

Their leader is 99. Maybe God told him to tear the entire city down. Just from what I know, I agree that he may have some screws loose.

> ...at which point it would be
> "dedicated", the event held,
> and then it would revert to
> "open house" status.


I dated a girl at the Y who followed this program, sort of!

I shall not be providing details, so ...

"endowment theater"not sure why but that term made me laugh out loud. It is so spot on.

My words, not theirs. They wouldn’t be that honest.

Remember when they bamboozled Salt Lake and took over Main Street?
"A little bit of Paris" was what was said about it by MFMC.

Maybe under German occupation...?

I have always argued with members that LDS Corp values historical buildings.

What we have recently learned from Cody and Heber City is that the church no longer backs down from its plans once they are made. They don't seem to be bothered with bad pr or negativity and opposition. I think their new (maybe it's always been this way) game plan is we made the plans, sought the permits and environmental studies and we are moving forward with truckloads of cash. Nothing is going to stop us.

I'm pretty confident that this plan will go forward.

I don't think the church has ever hesitated to overrule the preferences of local communities. They just do it legally now.

I just hope that the Downtown SLC Experience doesn't end up costing more than a day at Disneyland.

And will they have a f*reworks show?


Here's my favorite review of The Salt Lake City tour...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hafWfgXfZns

Hilarious.

People who would wilfully destroy Minerva Teichert's art are not to be trusted with Utah's built environment.

Right-o.

I wonder if they have looked at this through normal coloured lenses, and see that it could spectacularly backfire, as Mormon stuff like this tends to. As tourists are nudged off the pavement and shoved inside the Church Compound by starry-eyed young women in cult-like uniform ankle-length black skirts, they might not find it all that interesting. Ever since Temple Square was renovated some 50 years ago or so, it has been less interesting. They used to have things like Brigham Young's tophat and cane, and the Jupiter talisman. That kind of stuff piqued my young brain.

...leading to the question, "What was it that pickled Gladys Lot's young brain?
"

Ah yes, I remember it like it was yesterday.

The Astana 1st ward had taken up a collection to send a group of us to youth camp at the Lord's University. We were sitting in the student union, insensate from jet lag and dirty sodas, when what to my wondering eyes did appear but a miniature elder's quorum president and eight tiny RMs, dear.

I was stricken. Even at that young age I was keen on short, dark, and handsome men with something approaching full dentition--which, as you might imagine, was exceptional in mother country Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan. And the hat, never before had I seen such a commodious head piece.

It was love at first sight, perhaps the equivalent of attractive lady missionaries casting their ironically chaste spells over pimply high school boys, but in an instant I knew that Mormon men were the thing for me. So baptized I was, saved I hoped to become.

It was only later that I realized that Mormonism, like certain Latin gentlemen, embodied the difference between dentition and dentures. And the short, dark, and handsome elders quorum president?

Let's just say he had small hands.

I thought the Romans were supposed to destroy the temple not Russell M. Nelson!

They’d have some great talent available if they could resurrect Rembrandt, DaVinci & a few others;

Certainly resurrections are their forte, eh?