It's reported that the audio is below par.  I don't know, cuz I didn't listen ... didn't need to.



https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/18ynjbt/mississippi_ward_bishop_resigns_from_the_pulpit/

What did you expect? The man has a beard.

Probably plays the accordion too.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What did you expect? The man has a beard.
>
> Probably plays the accordion too.


Early reports turned out to be erroneous; an accordion would have been OK, but this denizen actually plays the bagpipes!

I'm hoping for some copy-cat type duplications.

He’s one dam fine Exmo imo…nice to hear one right from the heart

He avoided saying specifically what had offended him. Perhaps that was a precondition for being allowed to resign from the stand.

It would be nice to know what concrete issues motivated him.

What do you mean by "being allowed" to resign from the stand? Why would he need permission? Since he was a bishop, all he had to do is stand up and say what he wants. Maybe he wanted to control the message to the people in the ward so they don't run around saying he wanted to sin?

I couldn't understand much of what he was saying. He was using his Testimony Voice.

Good for him. No one needs permission from the Mormon church for anything. It's hard for Mormons to realize that.

You may be right. My surmise was that he probably ran this by the stake president, which I still think more likely than not.

I have a relative who left the church as a bishop. He discussed his decision at length with the stake president, who wanted him to resign rather than having to be excommunicated and asked that he avoid specifics when talking to ward members. My relative went along with that because he did not want to hurt his congregation, to whom he still felt a strong loyalty.

Assuming that experience is general, this bishop would have had some leverage. He may have told the bishop he wanted to address the congregation and, in explicit or implicit exchange, agreed not to raise his complaints.

Again based on my relative's experience, a bishop feels some obligation to his congregation and does not want to hurt people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2024 08:54PM by Lot's Wife.

That does make sense.

It's sad that someone resigning might feel the need to play by their rules, not "offend" anyone, and agree not to state any facts. They still want to be considerate for the other cult members apparently.

Our departures were like that. We didn't want to offend people whom we cared for, we wanted to let them make their own decisions, and we didn't want to create social problems for our own children.

In fact, I still do that. There are a couple of my friends who have been edging their way out of the church and I did not want to get in the way; better, I thought, to let them make their own decisions. As result we have grown closer as they and their children have disengaged. Another old friend was recently made a counselor in his bishopric and was anxious to discuss our differences. I suggested that it was probably best not to do that since our friendship was more important than disagreements over religion. He agreed, which was a relief to both of us.

I guess my view is that it is more helpful to a doubter to have a quiet ex-Mormon friend than a strident one. You can talk to the former, seek advice, whereas the latter is a threat and likely to put you in a defensive posture. In short, you won't see me ambushing missionaries with a concealed video camera.

"Not because of some sin, not because I'm hiding something...not at all. There's just a few things that I've been required to do that I cannot personally morally stand on...I can't.

....I can't do it. I won't."

Thus begins moral reasoning that does not rely on any church's judgment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2024 07:02PM by summer.

I wanted to transcribe this for anyone who can't play it or hear it as I think he said something important. I hope it makes a difference for others in his ward as well.

If I'd heard more talks like this at church I may have stuck longer - very heartfelt, emotional, thought-provoking, honest. I'm so curious to know what happened to bring him to this place but maybe we can give it a good guess, due to our own experiences.

I know I missed a few spots where I couldn't quite hear him as he got emotional and then sniffy with his drippy nose. That demonstrated though how heartfelt his announcement and his feelings were, as did the spots where he spoke so softly - I hope I caught most of his words accurately.

He said (as best I could hear him):

Two and a half years ago when I was called to be bishop President Richardson came to my home and he sat down on the couch with my wife and I and issued the call. When he left the home I was quite emotional but I remember shutting the door behind him and the words from Section 121 came into my mind:

"It is the nature and disposition of almost all men as soon as they get a little authority as they suppose – as they suppose - they begin to exercise unrighteous dominion. And the Spirit said Don’t --- you --- ever --- do it.” And I’ve thought of that and I never have.

I was talking with Brother ______ this morning. (Couldn't hear the next sentence - sounded like ---- Israel) – It is we who wrestle with God. I want to tell you about a wrestle I’ve had. Ernest Hemingway once said the most painful thing is losing yourself in the process of loving something or someone too much and forgetting that you’re special too. I owe it to my ward family to hear it from me. (Starts wiping eyes and nose from tearing up - genuine emotion). I have asked to be released. Not because of some sin. Not because I’m hiding something. Not at all. There are just a few things that I’ve been required to do that I personally cannot morally stand by. I can’t (slowly raises one shoulder). So I need to step down. For me and my family’s well-being. It’s not been easy. But I feel in many ways I’m failing the ward. I know this is hard. I understand. But I have to be true to my feelings (tears up). I have been angry. Every Sunday people look at me and they’re like “Man, Bishop - is something wrong?” I can’t do that to you. I won’t. I won’t do it. Because that turns to anger and bitterness and malevolence.

I’ve written down a few things, if it’s OK if I could just share my thoughts. Sometimes due to church culture we feel like we’re not supposed to turn down or step away from a calling. I wish I had known it was OK to say to myself “I’m not OK. I’m not as strong as I thought I was.” [Not sure this is what he said: To see that it’s important] - That’s my life, to see excellence, more – doing more – being successful. It’s so much more important to know that you’re OK and I haven’t been OK. This calling, guys, it’s so hard. You have to keep everything to yourself. And it builds up and it is exhausting. And it – it has broken me. (Emotional, lots of nose-wiping, near-whisper voice).

I didn’t have good parents. [I can't swear to the accuracy of that sentence - I can't quite believe he would say that right out loud like that - but it seems to fit the context and that is what it sounds like he said.] I wish they would have told me I was enough. They never have. That whether I had worth or not wasn’t contingent on how I acted. We are not loved for what we do or what we are going to do. We are loved for who we are. Not an expectation, but who we are. And to feel love for who you are is the most sacred kind of love. It’s a gift that we have the opportunity to give to ourselves. (Good thing there’s a box of Kleenex on the stand at this point. And I need some of my own too by now).

If I can just say one more thing towards the youth. Because they are the reason I’ve stayed as long as I have. I love them. If there is ever injustice in the world, young men, young women – there’s not many here but listen – if there’s ever injustice in the world - fight it. If there is ever a bully somewhere stand up to it. And if you ever have something to say, say it, just say it. Don’t fear. Get rid of fear. And if you don’t want to do that, that’s OK. You’re still enough. Instead of judgement, choose compassion. Instead of division, see everyone as you living a different life. And remember - people say it like Alma. Remember. Remember. That you’re enough. Everyone else is too. You are redeemed. You are always forgiven no matter what. This was a man who came to know the Christ. Seek Christ. Seek only Christ.

I realize a lot of people are going to have a lot of questions. Join the club. So do we. This has not been easy for my family. It’s not been easy at all. It hasn’t been easy for anybody. And this is not going to continue to be easy (he scrambled these words around – I didn’t edit them). But we want you to know we love you. I told Jeff this morning – I said that if we get called for tornado work he’s still riding shotgun. I’m just not going to wear this (white?? - couldn't hear) shirt. I know Brother Bailey has prepared quite a bit for the next hour so I will sit down. But I want you to know this is very hard for me. I know it’s hard for you. But I know it’s the right thing to do. Someone else who is better suited will do the job.

So with that being said, let’s close out the meeting. It’s kind of ironic – I see it's Hymn #227 - There is Sunshine in My Soul Today (a few soft laughs from the audience). After which we’ll have a benediction and I totally forgot who it was who was supposed to give the prayer – after which Brother Osgood will give the benediction.

-----

Wow. That was courageous of him. First, to realize he had to step down, for reasons he didn't specify here. Also, to want to speak to the congregation and try to let them know first hand what's up.

To me, the crux of his anguish is reflected in these words he spoke that he is honest enough, and heartbroken enough, to want to let his people know:

"There are just a few things that I’ve been required to do that I personally cannot morally stand by. I can’t."

"I have to be true to my feelings. I have been angry."

"I wish I had known it was OK to say to myself “I’m not OK.”

"This calling, guys, it’s so hard. You have to keep everything to yourself. And it builds up and it is exhausting. And it – it has broken me."

"That whether I had worth or not wasn’t contingent on how I acted. We are not loved for what we do or what we are going to do. We are loved for who we are. Not an expectation, but who we are. And to feel love for who you are is the most sacred kind of love. It’s a gift that we have the opportunity to give to ourselves."

"– if there’s ever injustice in the world - fight it. If there is ever a bully somewhere stand up to it. And if you ever have something to say, say it, just say it. Don’t fear. Get rid of fear. And if you don’t want to do that, that’s OK. You’re still enough. Instead of judgement, choose compassion. Instead of division, see everyone as you living a different life."

"Remember. Remember. That you’re enough. Everyone else is too."

-----

Sure, we can speculate. Many here have been where he undoubtedly is. I hope he can take his own words to heart "You are enough". "We are loved for who we are." (Would that were true, especially inside countless church organizations).

I feel for him. I hope so much that he can find those who will understand, and love, and see him as worthwhile just for who he is. And I hope he sees and feels that for his own self as well.

Of course I'm intensely curious about the things he referred to obliquely - no details - but we could give it a good guess. He just couldn't bring himself to bishop the way the church wants its men to bishop. He is full of compassion and honesty and love and who knows what all agonies he's felt due to the obligations he's felt as a Mormon bishop. Perhaps many here can guess what that would be about.

That was a bit of a tearjerker. I am speculating about what could have finally pushed him to this edge. I think this is a most revealing statement, among others above:

"There are just a few things that I’ve been required to do that I personally cannot morally stand by. I can’t."

I hope he doesn't beat himself up too much about his decision to step down. And I hope he keeps on asking questions and thinking things through.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2024 07:49PM by Nightingale.

"Porn...  It's almost always porn!"

                        --anonymous

Porn-again Christians

That's a lot of work, Florence. Thank you.

Yes, he mentioned Israel. As you know, there are OT stories that are so beautifully written that they move me deeply. The story of LW is one. Another is the passage in which Jacob wrestles and overcomes the angel (God) and is then renamed Israel.

This bishop seems to have a sense of poetry as well as moral integrity.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a lot of work, Florence. Thank you.

Yes, it took a while. But I thought it would be good for everyone who wants to have the chance to know what he said if they can't hear it for themselves. And it makes it easier to discuss if you can see the words.


> Yes, he mentioned Israel. As you know, there are
> OT stories that are so beautifully written that
> they move me deeply. The story of LW is one.
> Another is the passage in which Jacob wrestles and
> overcomes the angel (God) and is then renamed
> Israel.

I wish I could hear that part. It's likely a good sentiment. And perhaps has a lot of import re the decision he made to step down.

When I was with the JWs they had yearly conferences (with large attendances) at which they often used video presentations or put on plays with live actors (hmmmm, kinda like ...). An elderly-sounding Jewish man with the most incredibly beautiful voice was featured in some of the poignant video performances. His voice and delivery could make you swoon and vow to follow him anywhere. It certainly lent an air of authenticity - Jewish guy - OT.... The power of a movie, eh? Demonstrates how discerning you have to be about what types of media you follow (only half joking).


> This bishop seems to have a sense of poetry as
> well as moral integrity.

Yes indeed. Unfortunately for him he likely feels he has let down the side. He seems to indicate that. I hope he leans into his own insights even if they're not clearly defined for him yet.

I get the sense he didn't feel it was right to go along with the hardline approach to some types of "sins" that as bishop he is required to address and even judge and/or punish.

In particular, this statement he makes could make you go hmmm: "We are loved for who we are."

I wonder if as bishop he knew he was expected to clamp down on things but that isn't in his nature. But if he didn't he wasn't fulfilling his calling the way that would be expected. No point in idle speculation I realize. It's just quite telling how he tried to explain the difficulties he encountered. His only problem pretty much seems to be that he couldn't go with the flow the way he was expected to. Unfortunately, as for many, that didn't lead him (yet) to think it's the church that's falling short - he sounds like he thinks that it's him. I want to say to him, it's not you, it's them. But maybe he'll come to realize that some day? I think he's so heartbroken (and he is even courageous enough to admit to the entire ward right out loud that "I'm broken").

And he even specifies why the bishop's job broke him: "You have to keep everything to yourself. And it builds up and it is exhausting. And it – it has broken me."

Broken from the demands and expectations of being bishop. The church high mucky-mucks should perk up and take heed. Because there's something wrong with that picture.

I would like to know (but realize I never will and it's private anyway) what built up - his position calling on him to judge people but his heart saying people are OK as they are? Maybe.

I feel for the guy. I hope he doesn't castigate himself (because he doesn't deserve it although will doubtless think he does) or have a miserable time as a former bishop while he still tries to continue on in the Mormon way, especially in the same ward. I hope he sees it from the perspective of him having the compassion to value the worth of a human while church demands come at it from the opposite side of the road. If you have an issue, you're the problem they preach. Whereas his heart and mind are screaming at him that it's them, not him. He isn't hearing it yet from that perspective though, it seems. He could be one of us but he just doesn't know it yet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2024 08:30PM by Nightingale.

For me it all comes down to this advice to the youth: "Seek Christ. Seek only Christ."

That could be code for "Joseph Smith was a liar and a con and that is what the church still is I have felt in my heart."

He's only just begun.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He's only just begun.

I hope so D.

I was getting a hint from some of his comments that maybe he ran into the LGBTQ2+ issues as bishop. Kinda sounds like it when he says: "We are loved for who we are."

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but that was my first impression from some of the advice he offered to the youth in his last talk as bishop.

I think he has a long ways to go to come to terms with this experience. It sounds like he is in the place of thinking it's him, not them, so to speak. I hope that turns around for him. What I get from it is that he was expected to do and/or say or impose things he couldn't in good conscience feel comfortable with. That could apply to all kinds of things but I note that he especially mentioned the young members.

It's got to be something tremendously major for him to stand up in front of the entire ward and say "I'm broken". Wow. When personal principles clash into church strictures that can hurt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2024 08:41PM by Nightingale.

Thank you for the transcription. I didn't pick up anything in this which hinted at the gay issue.

This may be the key point:

"It is the nature and disposition of almost all men as soon as they get a little authority as they suppose – as they suppose - they begin to exercise unrighteous dominion. And the Spirit said Don’t --- you --- ever --- do it.” And I’ve thought of that and I never have."

Therefore he is saying that the church leaders above him are "exercising unrighteous dominion", i.e. abusing their power. I don't think this is necessarily about sexuality. It may be, but there is not enough to go on.

"We are loved for who we are" could refer to a number of things. It could be race/gender, political opinions, recent health choicesz, or even someone who's had problems with substance dependence.

> He's only just begun.

Agreed. He's on his way out.

> It's got to be something
> tremendously major for him
> to stand up in front of the
> entire ward and say "I am
> broken".


The odds are greatly in favor that it's the church that's broken, but that is not a message anyone he knows and cares about is ready to hear, and that comes with the territory.

Thanks for all that work, Nighty.

I'm still confused what exactly this is about. I misunderstood the whole thing because I thought he was resigning from the church completely, not just stepping down from some dumb calling. Is that correct?

I didn't like his speaking in code in testimony voice, referring to "exercising unrighteous dominion" which is basically everything about the church. All he did was introduce speculation.

Lots of Bishops weasel out of that job. It burns them out and takes all their time away from family.

What am I misunderstanding here?

dagny Wrote:
----------------------------------

>
> What am I misunderstanding here?


Maybe you're the only one on a path to complete understanding?

Personally, I don't trust people when they're acting/dealing/striving on/from an emotional base/basis.

(But I love /s because they're a sign of forward thinking, as opposed to \s; ugh, so backwards...)

> What am I misunderstanding here?

I may be reading more into your posts than is there, in which case please excuse me. But this guy said he was determined not to let the calling and his authority cause him to diverge from his own moral code. That was what he meant when he referred to the temptation to exercise "unrighteous dominion."

And while some bishops would "weasel out of the job" by alluding to the demands of bishopric, the needs of his family, or even an impending move out of state--seriously, I've seen that--this man stood before the congregation and said he was resigning his post because of moral disagreements with the church.

When he said he was "broken," he meant he was broken by the cognitive dissonance engendered by the moral compromises the church demanded. That alone was important. He gave permission for the ward members to take their moral qualms seriously, to consider the possibility that it is the church that is "broken" and not they.

That message, I feel, is more subversive than letting the church insinuate that he was sleeping with the babysitter or that he lacked the energy to do the Lord's will. He had the guts publicly to put his own morality front and center.

OK, thanks.
Well, I guess that's admirable and all. Most of them won't even insinuate problems with the church.

Maybe he can get back to us when he leaves the church.

Yes, I think it's only a matter of time.

Someone on Redit asked the bishop's brother, who I guess posted the video, if the bishop was resigning. His brother answered, "I am going to allow my brother to tell his story when he is ready. I will not speak for him."

I guess we'll have to wait for the Mormon Stories podcast.

You know the podcasters are all foaming at the mouth, all reaching out through every connection they have to be the first to interview him.
My money is on Dehlin winning the race.

It seems to me that he was only resigning from (and having trouble with) his calling as bishop. Not from LDS belief or church authority.

Or did I miss something?

Cultural stuff.

Prestigious positions like bishop are the direct result of revelation. If someone has problems in that role, he is fundamentally flawed. He will never be trusted by the church nor by the membership again. His family will almost certainly be ostracized.

Conversely, it takes courage to do what he did; it bespeaks profound moral convictions and an unwillingness to compromise, traits that usually lead one out of the church. Being treated like a second-class citizen, a "failure," will simply underscore his moral convictions and his belief that the church is not a fit environment for his children.

I'd put the odds that he'll leave over the next several years at 75%.

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems to me that he was only resigning from
> (and having trouble with) his calling as bishop.
> Not from LDS belief or church authority.
>
> Or did I miss something?

He mentions "unrighteous dominion" specifically. That could refer to either local leadership, or the Q12. There definitely is an issue here with church authority.

I think if he felt he was being dragged away from his family or having personal trouble that he would mot mention it.

We should cast our minds back to the last few years snd remember some of the issues which have caused such hostility within the church and outside it.

We now have two video clips. Perhaps you should watch them.


-----------
> He mentions "unrighteous dominion" specifically.
> That could refer to either local leadership, or
> the Q12. There definitely is an issue here with
> church authority.

Watch the first one again. He said he was worried that HE might be tempted to exercise unrighteous dominion and then that he was proud that he had not. He was not talking about "local leadership or the Q12."


-------------
> We should cast our minds back to the last few
> years snd remember some of the issues which have
> caused such hostility within the church and
> outside it.

Watch the second clip, in which he explains exactly why he resigned from the bishopric. Your ominous implications are off the mark.

He is not fighting your wars.

Of course I had to stop paying close attention while listening to the words of this now former Bishop. As a chid in Nursery I gained a powerful testimony of the cheerios. Then the Church used that condition of mine through its Correlation program to wash my brain by immersion to think the wondrous peculiar way I do now on everything. If it hadn't been for that strong testimony of the cheerios and how the Church used this condition of mine then I might not have my brain wired to think the Correlation way.

This Bishop started saying he was resigning. But it wasn't crystal clear that he was being commanded to resign by the leaders above him. That's why I had to shut my mind off from listening to him carefully. That's the Correlation way. You too can learn to think this way if you will follow the Correlation plan. And then once you've worn yourself out completely and had all your joys/aspirations sucked away in unquestionable obedience to your Church-assigned overlords then you will gain your eternal reward of Exaltation (after you spend all your time/energy obeying your Spirit Paradise overlords while you await resurrection).

Exaltation is a wondrous prize. If you've ever had an email account that gets thousands of SPAM messages each week then you'll have an inkling of what Exaltation will be like. What'll be expected of you is to answer billions of prayers & supplications every second from your Spirit Children for all the rest of eternity unceasingly on a 24/7 basis. Wow, what a wondrous joy that'll be.

And that eternal reward of course assumes that Nauvoo Joe was a true prophet. How can a man who loved the people, especially the wives of the missionaries he sent away from Nauvoo, so much be anything but a true prophet?

IMHO the key word: "Exhaustion".

Like the exhaustion felt by women controlled by priestholders, who must carry the load.
Like the exhaustion felt by closeted gays who must be ever watchful of every word, mannerism, reference, glance.
Like the exhaustion of magnifying callings at the neglect of loved ones.
LIke the exhaustion of manipulating a tight budget in order to pay tithing.
Like the exhaustion of dragging yourself and your reluctant, whiny children to church when you crave rest.
Like the exhaustion listening to the drone of the authorities in order to demonstrate your loyalties and righteousness while masking your ennui.

The church is a living definition of "exhaustion".

Twinker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMHO the key word: "Exhaustion".

> The church is a living definition of "exhaustion".

Great observation.

In many other churches you can show up on Sunday, or not. You can basically formulate your own way of living your faith. It's seen to be between you and God, not administered by a middle man. Your participation level is up to you.

Perhaps partly that approach is because leaders don't obsess over an individual's level of participation. Also, importantly, the church itself is not seen to be judged by the actions of an individual adherent.

Many don't impose strictures on folks such as thou shalt not consume alcohol or miss a meeting and you should work for the church for free.

Those are my impressions anyway.

Yes and Yes.

As a kid I heard Mormons brag all the time that we had "no paid clergy" and this was proof that we were the true church. Cuz taking money for doing the Lord's work would just be wrong. Jesus didn't get paid. His Apostles didn't get paid.

Nowadays other churches have paid clergy who go to school to learn how. They don't, like my father, come home after a long day at the insurance company and then start their second job--being Bishop. Which he did for 11 years. Our family suffered for it though he did everything he could to not have that happen.

EXHAUSTION Physically, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally.
All four of those are in that Bishops voice as he resigns.

How could he not resent the Big 15 by now?

I had a strategy to avoid high church callings by being liberal and honest. The church doesn’t like across the board honest people. It wants company men.

My strategy was to grow a beard and refuse to get a temple recommend.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had a strategy to avoid high church callings by
> being liberal and honest. The church doesn’t
> like across the board honest people. It wants
> company men.

Very astute observation.

They don't want innovation, free thinking, or how to live more like Jesus.

A lot of bishops become frustrated when they follow the church's handbook which helps no one, but the church and its name.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EXHAUSTION Physically, mentally, spiritually, and
> emotionally.
> All four of those are in that Bishops voice as he
> resigns.

Yes, that's what I see/hear too. The church asks and expects too much of people. The church of the family - that demands most or all of the free time of men like your father, D - putting so much pressure on them and taking so much away from their family. Does. Not. Compute.

They could be like other religious sects in the way of having paid clergy who, for one thing, would hopefully at least be educated/trained to deal with major life issues that arise for churchgoers, as well as being able to perform the basic religious services. Members could just be people who show up at church, period, or who *freely volunteer* time to help out the church and fellow churchgoers, able to choose their own schedules as well as the area/s in which they are qualified or interested. What a concept.

Sometimes a person just wants to attend a church service. They don't want a second job, especially one they don't even get to choose. Like, they shoved me into Primary as a new member who knew nothing about church doctrine (my bad) as well as not being married or a mother, which made me kind of not all that interested in "teaching" the Primary kids. And the guy who sneaked around watching me with the kids (especially when I {{shudder}} took them outside one bright summer day to get out of the stuffy, boring classroom) was seriously strange to me - lurking there on the gravel watching us spread out on the lawn, just enjoying the outdoors. To me it was a pretty good "lesson" for the kids to get to run around outside enjoying nature. That's a God thing isn't it?! :) Yikes, he gave me the creeps, just standing there watching us (and later the bishop or somebody - I forget now - told me not to leave the classroom in future). Weird. Still makes my brow crinkle when that picture moves forward again into my mind.

Doesn't it clang loudly enough to wake the dead that the church that's supposedly all about family takes up the time parents (especially fathers in the case of demanding, stressful, time-consuming positions such as bishop) could be spending with their children?

What about down time? Aren't members supposed to get some time to just enjoy being alive?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2024 07:35PM by Nightingale.

That's one of the things that stuck me most about Mormonism -- how much it demands of its members. Growing up, my family attended church on Sunday, and I had religious instruction on Wednesday afternoons after school. For the most part, that was it. Volunteer work was truly volunteer -- no one expected it. You went to church on Sunday and people left you alone otherwise.

Why are TBMs forking over so much money to their church for so little in return? Not only are they bled for money, but their time as well.

Volunteer work felt like “vol and told work”.

Exaltation is a wondrous prize. If you've ever had an email account that gets thousands of SPAM messages each week then you'll have an inkling of what Exaltation will be like. What'll be expected of you is to answer billions of prayers & supplications every second from your Spirit Children for all the rest of eternity unceasingly on a 24/7 basis. Wow, what a wondrous joy that'll be.

This Exhaustion you speak of is just a warmup. If you go back to church you too can get in this path of exhaustion -> exaltation. This assumes of course that Joe was a true prophet from the holy land of Palmyra, New York.

One of my best friends left the church after serving as bishop. His wife divorced him and he started a new air charter business that is going really well. He’s happy. He told me the church is just a machine that doesn’t really care about it’s members.

> He told me the church is just
> a machine that doesn’t really
> care about its members.


At least it can be said that the church cares about its members' money...

I wonder what people thought. I wonder also if it caused the stake presidency to run around a bit.

Moral courage.

At the end of the day, it’s all that matters.

While not generally seen as being of the same utility, immoral courage may have its own time and place...

Follow-up video. It appears that he is not just tired of being bishop, or tired of the church leadership. He is tired of the church.

https://www.tiktok.com/@thebishops_storeh/video/7321202433445743903?_r=1&_t=8ipD3vgSg6o

The whole family said F*ck this shit.

Now we're talkin'!

Good for them. I couldn't help but notice how HAPPY the kids were not to be dragged off to church. They are excited to actually enjoy the day as a family.

I'll bet the dad is excited as well. He lost so much time with them due to his bishop duties.

They look like a great family.

The Reddit commentary thread includes two of his very close relatives: a sibling and a sibling in-law. They state that all the adults on both sides of the family are out and imply that he will soon be as well.

The factors he has mentioned include 1) the burdens on his family, 2) his being asked as an ecclesiastical leader to do things he opposes, and 3) he was abused at an LDS camp when he was little.

Put simply, he's motivated by the same factors as most of us and not by political issues.

I am sure there are several reasons he quit his calling as bishop. From how he talked about the youth, he may have been pressed to carry out policies and procedures he saw as cruel and harmful and it was just a bridge too far. Talking about any specific policy could lead to speculation among ward members, and no good could come of that. Job #1 for a bishop: take care of the youth.

I would like it better if he had resigned from a tavern.

He said that he got abused at an LDS camp.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT84gG82b/

I did not see that coming. I hope he and his family recover from all the negativity and struggles and begin to thrive in the outside world. I think he's strong and is channelling positivity. Lucky kids with strong parents.

Here is another video from the bishop.

https://www.tiktok.com/@thebishops_storeh/video/7322593465978703134?lang=en

A video of his wife talking.

https://www.tiktok.com/@thebishops_storeh/video/7322514845931146526?lang=en

She presented herself very well and revealed more than he has so far. They seem like fine people.

And yeah, they're effectively out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2024 11:00PM by Lot's Wife.