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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 08:58AM

I have to share this video!

https://www.tiktok.com/@analyzing.mormonism/video/7340494353485303083?lang=en

So there is an active lds member who has different theories of how the Book of Mormon is not racist. The curse of the black skin could be symbolic for getting a tattoo she says. Once upon a time, I was an active lds member wearing my garments and paying tithing and all that.

I think even when I was an active member I would not been able to believe that the curse was getting a black tattoo.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 09:06AM

Makes about as much sense as this

############

https://www.slashfilm.com/1353558/who-is-armus-star-trek-tasha-yar/

In the first-season "Star Trek: The Next Generation" episode "Skin of Evil" (April 28, 1988), the shuttlecraft carrying Deanna Troi (Marina Sirtis) crashes on a seemingly uninhabited alien world called Vagra II. The Enterprise goes to rescue her, but finds that Troi's crashed shuttle is being guarded by a mysterious living puddle of black tar. The tar shapeshifts into a vaguely human form and calls itself Armus (Mart McChesney, voice by Ron Gans), the only inhabitant of this world. Armus is seethingly cruel and takes pleasure in the death and suffering of the people it encounters. It refuses to let Troi go, wanting to torment the Enterprise crew members who have beamed down to gather her.

############

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 09:09AM

When I was a teenager someone a nin lds friend of mine said that the lds church was racist. He said to me that black members were not allowed to receive the priesthood for many years. I was about 17 years old our youth Sunday school teacher she was done with the lesson and she asked if we had any questions. One boy asked if there are any benefits to fasting once a month. teacher explained that fasting was very good for the body. So I raised my hand and said that my friend had said that black were not allowed to have the priesthood and how I said that every worthy boy starting at age 12 gets the priesthood. The teacher said that my friend was right? What? My 17-year-old old self had not heard of the priesthood ban. She explained to the class that god took away the priesthood from the blacks to protect them during slavery. The Sunday school teacher said that Utah actively fought against slavery. Well I guess the lds church took away something good but did something better instead.

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 09:14AM

I left the Mormon church at age 33. Looking back many things did not make sense to me even as a 17-year-old. But my closest friends were LDS and overall I had fun being LDS so I just put those things on a shelf. Not giving people the priesthood is a form a protection but I thought you needed the priesthood to give healing blessings with consecrated oil? Well 17 17-year-old old me somehow was able to accept the answer and not research anymore.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 10:41AM

If one day they say red is green and yellow is pink, then it is.

If the next day they say green is down and pink is sideways, then it is.

If the day after that they say down is introversion and sideways is vivisection, then it is.

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Posted by: L.A. Exmo ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 07:55PM

"The Sunday school teacher said that Utah actively fought against slavery. Well I guess the lds church took away something good but did something better instead."

No, they didn't do "something better." Utah did not actively fight against slavery. To the contrary, Deseret/Utah was explicitly a slave territory from 1852-62. Mormons owned chattel slaves, and in at least one case brought several to California when they settled San Bernardino.

https://historytogo.utah.gov/slavery/

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2281145

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 08:14PM

Years later I found out that Brigham Young had a slave.

https://homework.study.com/explanation/did-brigham-young-have-slaves.html

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 10:04AM

"That didn't leave a mark, did it?"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FqI3068DG-A

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 11:01AM

They are so embarrassing.

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Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 11:07AM

The most correct of any book on earth can't possibly mean skin of blackness. Probably means they got tattoos. Or maybe it means they dyed the animal skins they wore black. Could even just mean their hearts were black.

Really it can't mean what it says. (sarcasm)

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 12:13PM

Maybe it didn't mean what it said, and they incorrectly thought it meant what it said, not what it meant to mean... And now they know it didn't mean what it said!

The point being, the church is true and the book of mormon proves it...again!!


Damn it!  I would have been one fine mapostle*!!!








*Mexican Apostle

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 12:28PM

>Maybe it didn't mean what it said, and they incorrectly thought it meant what it said, not what it meant to mean... And now they know it didn't mean what it said!

That pretty much describes how people use scripture in general. It's always about making the scriptures justify what you want them to justify, which changes over time.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 01:23PM

Haha. That line is the best I've heard it put.

Pray, pay, obey, and . . . obfuscate!

I will say that apparently in Nephite/Lamanite times tattoo artists must have made awfully good livings doing a whole body at a time one after the other right down to the sacred bits.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 04:24PM

"Mexican Apostle"

The bulletproof Audi might get some modifications.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 12:24PM

We’ve all heard of mansplaining, now we’re being subjected to mormsplaining.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 12:45PM

OMG. Thanks for the laughs.

Skins of blackness that aren't skins!

This is like Chocolate Cake that isn't Chocolate.

Some Mormons have gone way beyond twisting themselves in knots to make a purse out of a sow's ear, but this is taking the knots to the level of macramé.


Those kids really should read what their prophets said. Starting with the Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, and my favorite--Mark E. Peterson. A couple of pages of his quotes that those would know that nobody was talking about tattoos. Ever.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 01:23PM

The Q15 know full well the racism problem in the BoM. Those two changes to the preface, downgrading Lamanites from "ancestors" of the American Indians, to "principal ancestors", and then to "among the ancestors" were not changes made by some low-level staffer in the COB. They were made at the top.

Ditto the change of "white and delightsome" to "pure and delightsome." They knew exactly what they were doing and why.

They (especially Nelson) have made Mormon a dirty word because they can't very well dump the BoM if the church is universally known as the Mormon Church. They know the book is irredeemably racist, and if they try to claim to the world in general that the skin of blackness refers to tattoos, they will be laughed off the stage.

They know all this.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 01:32PM

Spot on.

I do think they could get away with changing the meaning to ink among their most devout believers who swallow anything. However, they would be the laughing stock outside their bubble.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 03:39PM

It's terribly embarrassing that I was a "convert" in the first place.

Irredeemably horrible that I was so ignorant. I always use quotation marks for the C word (convert) in reference to myself because yeah, I was stupid enough to join without asking questions and doing research - baptize first, ask questions later is what the mos I knew preached to me and I succumbed to the pressure. You'd think I'd know better after my JW experience but no, I had to do the whole "convert" thing twice over before I finally wised up about offshoot and controlling religious groups.

The Mormons I knew (and trusted, I guess) told me "dark and loathsome" was a metaphor (for sin iirc). I accepted that.

I didn't know (as far as I can remember now) until I read it on RfM that the dark and loathsome tenet was meant literally in reference to skin colour.

I cringe.

From an SLT (2019) - "new guidance" from the church re (one's own) body:

"Gone is the prohibition on tattoos or extra piercings and the condemnation of bare shoulders or midriffs. The ban on “passionate kissing” is no longer there nor is the shaming of those with same-sex attraction."

"On dress, grooming, tattoos and piercings — “The Lord’s standard is for you to honor the sacredness of your body, even when that means being different from the world. Let this truth and the Spirit be your guide as you make decisions — especially decisions that have lasting effects on your body.”

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2022/10/01/look-new-language-lds-churchs/


As an aside, the same article also states the church's new position on "same-gender attraction":

“Feeling same-sex attraction is not a sin. If you have these feelings and do not pursue or act on them, you are living Heavenly Father’s sacred law of chastity."

All righty then.


From 'Learn Religions' in 2019:

"Church President Gordon B. Hinckley, built on what Paul advised the Corinthian members.

"Did you ever think that your body is holy? You are a child of God. Your body is His creation. Would you disfigure that creation with portrayals of people, animals, and words painted into your skin?

"I promise you that the time will come, if you have tattoos, that you will regret your actions."


"Hinckley also referred to tattoos as graffiti."


And:

"True to the Faith is a guidebook for all LDS members. Its guidance on tattoos is brief and to the point.

"Latter-day prophets strongly discourage the tattooing of the body. Those who disregard this counsel show a lack of respect for themselves and for God. . . . If you have a tattoo, you wear a constant reminder of a mistake you have made. You might consider having it removed.


"For the Strength of Youth is a guidebook for all LDS youth. Its guidance is also strong:

"Do not disfigure yourself with tattoos or body piercings."

-----

So, it seems like it should be OK for religious groups to be free to chop and change as time goes by. Except. The leaders in some of the more rigid groups make everything so black and white (no pun intended, given the subject of this thread - seriously). It would seem that once you've made an "eternal" rigid pronouncement, especially if you're the head guy, and enforced the "law", often with severely negative consequences for the unfortunate 'transgressor', you shouldn't eventually update the "law" that was used to impose censure and punishment and even banishment on members during the time of the old law but since dismissed by the new law. It's simple - just don't declare behaviour and choices to be subject to management and judgement of (fallible) human representatives of a church.

Having guidelines - understandable. Imposing absolutes - especially with punishment attached - not so much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2024 03:41PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: February 28, 2024 08:39PM

There's also the "skin of not Anglo-Saxon" ...

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