What I am seeing in Texas are new members being baptized. They seem to be new people to the country. Their English skills are low. Many single women with children. (not Caucasian) The occasional male and then we never see them again. The ward I attend has about 6 missionaries and they seem like they would rather be someplace else other than on a mission. People get baptized and then confirmed and maybe show up for a few weeks and then disappear.
I mention this because the conference report shows some growth but the growth here is not sustained. The days of bringing in a strong family, or bringing in well educated people seem to be gone. It difficult to have a really meaningful conversations about gospel topics with these new people. There is a lack of depth.
I sit back and watch testimony meetings. The old timers are not getting up. Just the new people who feel it is open mike Sunday. I saw the same dynamic when I returned back to my old ward a few months ago. People come in, sit and listen and then escape. Church is now just 2 hours on Sunday. The olden days have gone. The ward I am in, is going to have a greet and meet next Sunday after Church. Bring a pot luck dish and stick around. It will be interesting to observe. The Christmas party this ward had was a disaster. There was no real mingling, just eat watch the program and leave. I tried to get meaningful conversations going at our table about anything other than the gospel and it was flat.
Yesterday the ward was all high about the new Temple announced in Southern Houston. But it wasn't like a real spiritual excitement but rather "good news." I had as sense that the days of excitement about a new temple are gone. Its like "that is great, not wow that is truly great" Testimony meeting yesterday lacked any really truly spiritual experiences. It was like members were saying things to convince themselves the gospel and the Church is true. But they know Rusty is a prophet and as the Bishop said, "the words at conference are considered scripture."
So how was your ward or branch yesterday?

Maybe anchor religion is the new anchor baby.

I know my ancestors (European) came to the USA using the Mormon church to assimilate as they looked for new opportunities.

Texian Wrote:
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> So how was your ward or branch yesterday?

Thankfully, gratefully and happily I was not present. :)

-or bringing in well educated people seem to be gone.

Left about 40 years ago. We all know the church has very few activities remaining- Nobody joins a church to get excited about scrubbing toilets.

My ward used to have a tribute to the ward's octogenarians. The young women interviewed and created a photo collage (poster) about their life's milestones. Most of these were non-church related. The young men would volunteer to work in their yard (if they wanted any trimming or mowing, brush clean up). It was a nice luncheon with RECOGNITION.

The new bishop of my ward was very dismissive. He did away with that and wrongfully decide that old fogies (yes, he used that derogatory remark repeatedly over the pulpit) didn't want any recognition.

Back to my point. The church offers very few activities compared with other churches. And there used to be the appearance of somewhat happy families in the church. Heck, even in the late 80s early 90s, it was hard to convince investigators that the Mormon church was THE place to be when so many members were bored beyond belief. Happy people used to be the magnet for attracting golden families. Not any more!

Yeah Texian,
EXACTLY the same type of people here all the way up in Alaska (hopefully no one is taking our comments as xenophobic or derogatory, it’s only about the quality of investigators and new baptisms that are happening, unlike what the church likes to portray)
Along with foreigners, homeless and welfare moms seem to be especially popular here, word must be out they can get free groceries and maybe rent paid (for a while at least) if they join)

I think the demphasis on millenialism took its toll.

I don't think this is the Millennium the church had in mind.

        After reading your interesting post, and the responses, I thought to myself, "How can I respond such that it will be both entertaining and instructional?"  (I'm all about education, with a laughter chaser to make it go down smoother...or in Gladys' case, 'smoothier.')

        ...Nothing came to mind...  So instead, I made up a story, with neither education nor entertainment as a goal...it's just a story, and while to me it's fiction, it's possible that somewhere, at some time, it all did happen in someone's ward or branch:


    
        Bro. Jessup, the 2nd Ward's new bishop, still had some 'newbie' butterflies in his stomach as he sat on the stand and watched the latecomers streaming into the chapel after the opening prayer.  "Goddam it to hell and back; why can't people be on time?!" he thought to himself.  "These dumb-ass mother-humpers!!!  What if someone reports this to the stake!!"

        It was his first counselor's turn to conduct the meeting, so while the first counselor moved to the podium and made a big production of adjusting its height, Bro. Jessup surveyed the half-full chapel, looking for any exposed female flesh.

        Then his eye (he'd lost the other one during a poorly chaperoned scout troop outing when a prank involving a minority deacon all the other boys were hazing went astray) landed on an Asian male, looking to be in his late 20s, dressed nicely, sitting alone (obviously, because none of the White people would get near him) next to the aisle in about the middle of the chapel.

        Bro. Jessup immediately began looking for the six missionaries (...the OP mentioned six missionaries) assigned to his ward, assuming that the unrecognized Asian must be an investigator.  And if that were the case, why wasn't one or a pair of Elders sitting with him?

        (Thinking about the Elders and the people they were baptizing into the ward made him grind his teeth...)

        With no way to answer these questions, Bro. Jessup had no choice but to sit and stew.  (He smiled inwardly as an errant thought about 'stewing' with Sis. Stewart crossed his mind...)

        The program droned on, and then it was time for the sacrament.  As it did every Sunday, the thought passed through his mind that if unrepented masturbation meant a priesthood holder could not prepare, bless, or pass the sacrament, the ward budget wouldn't strain to buy bread or CK cups...

        And then Bro. Jessup watched the Asian man take the bread and then the water and NOT consume them!  The Asian man just sat there, holding the piece of Wonder Bread in the palm of his left hand and the cup of water between his right thumb and forefinger!!

        While the 'amen' of the closing prayer was still echoing back from the congregation, Bro. Jessup leaped up and ran from the stand, keeping his eye on the Asian man. 

        "Hey, you!  What's the meaning of this?!"  (I've never in my lengthy, lengthy life said to another human being, "What's the meaning of this?!")

        The startled look directed at Bro. Jessup, by the now trembling Asian gentleman, contained zero indication that he, the Asian man, comprehended Bro. Jessup's meaning.  Recognizing this, Bro. Jessup increased the negative energy of his frown and pointed a thick index finger (the right one, the righteous one) at the sacrament cup, still brimming with Christ's metaphorical blood, and yelled, "What the hell of all the hells are you doing?!?!?!"

        After glancing back and forth from Bro. Jessup's face to the items he was carrying, the Asian man gave an audible 'gulp' and said, "My girlfriend is pregnant, and because she is unworthy of taking the sacrament, she says that if she does, it will make the baby go away...  Personally, I don't think so, but she was a sister missionary and graduated from Brigham Young College, and so I am fulfilling her wish.  It would be nice if it works!"

        The content of the Asian man's reply so startled Bro. Jessup that his only immediate response was, "huh?"

        The Asian man, thinking the response was not totally inappropriate, repeated his explanation.

        By now, the crowd surrounding the two men had grown, and a vague undercurrent of racism began to swell, and a wave of this racism crested and broke on Bro. Jessup's wounded psyche.

        "What the everloving, goddam, effing hell are you talking about, you little (defamatory slur)!!??" yelled Bishop Jessup.

        Everyone who heard him was startled into profound silence, which held for a few seconds, until a querulous voice was heard, "My grandfather lost half his pineapple trees when the goddam (plural defamatory slur) attacked Pearl Harbor!!"

        The next voice heard was one of the deacons: "Ken, I'd like 'mormon doctrine' for $100, please."

    

TL;DR

Wut?

I hate you with a fervor hotter than the sun when it has the flu and still has to go to scout camp and do a five-mile, full-pack march on the longest day of the year during a heat wave...that it caused.


TL;DR

I hate you with a fervor hotter than the sun when it has the flu and still has to go to scout camp and do a five-mile, full-pack march on the longest day of the year during a heat wave...that it caused.

Have I ever told you how much you remind me of a man from

E/C^2 . (-1)^(1/2) . PV/nR ?

Probably not.

BYU is the Harvard of the West, not the MIT of the West...

I knew you could do it, Dad!!!

Between EOD and LW, there is never a dull moment.

EOD........I loved that read!

Outside of that, to answer the primary question. I was in the driveway washing my cars with a cool breeze and the sun shining. When what should appear but a line of cars returning from church. They parked their cars in the garage, went inside, and nothing was said or seen for the remainder of the day.

My teacher colleagues and I have noticed some changes in the immigrants coming across the southern border within the past couple of years. For one, they have a much higher mobility. It used to be that they would pick an initial landing spot, and then move within 3-6 months. That second move would generally stick. Now, I'm seeing 1st graders who have already been to three or four different schools in several states. This makes tracking down school records a challenge. It makes continuity of education very difficult. Sometimes families are just in a school for a month before moving on.

More children are coming to us in 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade (on up) who have little to no prior formal schooling. We have ten year olds who don't know how to write their names. It makes an already challenging job even more so.

Beyond that, the families don't seem to "get" school. They pull kids out of school for months at a time.

And finally, I think the families are feeling greater stresses. I used to see mainly intact families with a mother and a father both living at home. Now there seems to be a somewhat greater likelihood that the parents are separated or divorced.

This is just a report from the front, but I could see how an immigrant family might be attracted to a church where they feel they might get some help and support.

summer Wrote:
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> This is just a report from the front, but I could
> see how an immigrant family might be attracted to
> a church where they feel they might get some help
> and support.

Would be good if that were true. Perhaps? hopefully? so, in some places?

Many of us can be indescribably grateful that we weren't born into the desperate situations so many other human beings are, often with no way out or at least a treacherous path ahead.

Reflecting on our great degree of unearned good fortune, in many cases, can help to keep us more humble than not or at least grateful. And understanding of those for whom that is not the case.

Hopefully.

I talked to a former mission president who was over one of the Salt Lake missions and he said the church was getting on him because very few of the new converts were attending church. He said most of them are here illegally and they are working three jobs to send money home. They are too busy for church.

The reality is some rich church was showing them attention. They just joined to see if there was any benefit to them. Missionaries are notorious head hunters. They just want baptism numbers.

That's ironic, because the Mormons want investigators dunked ASAP. If they would make investigators take classes, attend church, and wait at least a few months, they might have a more lasting success.

As far as being illegal, I'm seeing the opposite. More families have at least an initial visa from the border on the grounds that they are experiencing persecution, etc. in their home countries. Whether they make their initial court date to explore that further remains to be seen.

I do agree that they are hard workers. But I do think that a lot of ways that they traditionally make a living (house cleaning, landscaping, etc.) are becoming over-saturated.

> They just want baptism numbers.


Nothing buoys up the spirit of an elder more than finding an inactive family with twin nine-year-olds who haven't been baptized!!

"as the Bishop said, 'the words at conference are considered scripture.'"

Scripture with a limited shelf life. See

Nelson: Don't Say Mormon – April 1990
Hinckley: Ignore Nelson, It's OK to Say Mormon – Oct 1990
Monson: Dare to Be a Mormon – Oct 2011
Nelson: Don't Say Mormon, I Mean It – Oct 2018

But they all are, or were, the literal mouthpiece for God on earth. Maybe God just can’t remember what he said (he IS getting old).

    
    

It's the same here and everywhere. The blame rests squarely on the church's Big Fifteen. This is their Frankenstein, and IT'S ALIVE! They learn nothing from past bad news. They're just too arrogant toearn and do what needs to be done.

No, no an LDS church. A Bible Baptist church.

Regarding Summer's astute observation, "If they would make investigators take classes, attend church, and wait at least a few months, they might have a more lasting success."

Most of them attended 4 sessions of new convert/newcomer SS classes. Some of them are established believers from other churches. And the Pastor says there are a few more in process. I'd say about half our new members of late are in the 18-30 range. They're dating, getting married, and getting pregnant. And are they efficient with tables & chairs! Not a month goes by without an engagement, a diaper shower, or something in the way of (food) fellowship. I think we could teach the RS a thing or two.

An LDS ward closed up shop in a nearby town. We're sort of maxed out on capacity, so we put in a bid, but alas, didn't get it. It would have been great space. Our Pastor was incredulous that the baptistry is in the basement. (Ours is behind a movable partition behind the pulpit.) "What, are they ashamed to be seen getting baptized or something?" He asked. I answered, "If we get the building, maybe we can turn it into a hot tub!"

-That's ironic, because the Mormons want investigators dunked ASAP. If they would make investigators take classes, attend church, and wait at least a few months, they might have a more lasting success.

Some of us tried. I found a lot of resistance from established, long time members and church leaders in the wards/stakes (speaking as a church missionary). The mission that I was sent to had been involved in hundreds and thousands of quick dunks.

Members didn't trust missionaries (I understood that part) but members also didn't want ANY new members added to the ward's roster (which I did not understand).

The church, realizing that too many people had been baptized without proper fellowshipping, developed new protocols which were supposed to be adhered to the tee. Both local church leadership and my mission president wanted us missionaries to disregard. For those not familiar, you were supposed to be teaching the missionary discussions to investigators with a supporting church member family and local church leadership. Nearly impossible to do with the logistics of total missionaries and the fact that members have lives and need to work.

Many a times, the ward mission leader told me to stop inviting the local street walkers to church. It was upsetting the sisiters in the wards.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2024 12:01PM by messygoop.