I was listening to a BBC documentary on suicides earlier this morning. What the documentary said was that a lot of countries list suicide as being "illegal" and that if a suicide attempt fails, then family members of the person who attempted to commit suicide often beat up that person. According to the documentary, there are some places including Pakistan and Guyana where the legality of suicide is changing as well as what the ways countries use to try to prevent it.

The documentary noted, among other things, that human religions tend to view suicides and attempted suicides as sinful acts and I wondered how your former church viewed them. I'm well aware that suicide among homosexual Mormon teenagers is very high in Utah as there has been a lot written on this Board on that subject. But what I'm wondering is does the number of suicides matter at all to the Mormon church and, if so, how does your former church view and deal with people who actually attempt to commit suicide.

As a young Mormon, many decades ago, my understanding was suicide was worse than murder. The person would not have any opportunity to repent and funeral services were not allowed in the chapel.

The church has a softer approach now. The current handbook states:

Suicide

It is wrong to take a life, even one's own. However, a person who commits suicide may not be responsible for his or her acts. 0nly God can judge such a matter.

Leaders should counsel and compassionately console the family members of a person who has committed suicide. The family, in consultation with the bishop, determines the place and nature of a funeral service for a person who has died under such circumstances. Church facilities may be used.

I've known a few people who committed suicide in the church. The saddest was one who was an identical twin. His surviving twin brother was mistaken for him for a while after his death. It came in the wake of a vicious divorce. I think his ex-wife had been the love of his life.

Thank you for your direct response. I'm glad the LDS church changed its stance on the subject--its previous position was untenable in modern U.S. society.

I always found execution a bizarre punishment for suicide attempts. Maybe it's to deter people who cry wolf on a frequent basis. Inappropriate either way.

    "I've heard people excuse any suicide that was based on a choice involving reasons other than 'hurting' someone, 'getting even' with someone, or 'punishing' someone, but I am still an advocate of 'temporary suicide,' where the person wishing to die spends two-weeks in a foreign country whose language(s) he or she does not know, with no money, and only being fed and housed after changing 20 adult diapers per day."

    --Stella Bramble


    When it was pointed out to Ms. Bramble that her statement was neither sensible nor logical, she screeched some inchoate phrases about the Internet, little children with big ears, and harmless (or armless) drummers and then ran off into the night. She has not been seen or heard of since that day, almost 12 years ago.

    The concept of "hopelessness" does exist.  So, too, does the notion that we ought to be our brothers' keepers (losers, weepers?).

    Semi-finally, I am so full of love for all of you that I would never purposely deny you my presence.  How suicide ideation works to overcome that bastion of personal self-defense is beyond my ken.

    Finally, no one I've met personally and exchanged words with has ever committed suicide.*









    *But I would be lying if I said I was 100% glad/proud of this fact.
    

The greatest human instinct is for survival. IMV any suicidal person is not in their right mind. A few years ago a 26 year o!d family member took his own life, planning it down to every detail, even leaving a note of apology to whoever found his body. The devastation is still there for his parents who lost their only other child the following year. I think it cruel in the extreme for anyone, church or person, to add to the terrible impact of such an event by condemnation of any kind.

+1

+2

While I agree with all of you on the negative effects that suicide has on most families, as I indicated in my response to Dagny, the act should neither be criminalized by governments nor taught as being a sin by religions. Frankly, suicide and the desire to commit suicide should be treated as a health issue and not a religious or criminal one.

Your sentiments and those expressed by Kentish, especially in his final sentence, are identical.

While I agree with his entire post, it was that final comment that struck, and strikes, me so deeply.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While I agree with his entire post, it was that
> final comment that struck, and strikes, me so
> deeply.

Agreed, LW.

The main thing about suicide is how it impacts the people around them. It isn't fair to others to have to live with such a decision.

That said, I have to say I understand at least some situations. Assisted suicide (remember Dr. Kevorkian?) can be a kind and appreciated relief for some who are suffering terminally. I personally am for having that option.

Sometimes we hear about a murder suicide of an elderly couple. Maybe they agreed it was time to go and didn't want to suffer lonely deaths of old age. Maybe one had alzheimer's disease and they didn't want anyone else taking care of them. Maybe they didn't want all their life's savings spent keeping them alive instead of it going to their kids. Honestly, I can understand how they got there sometimes.

Sometimes people look around and decide they don't want to live in such a crappy world. I feel that way occassionally (no, I'm not suicidal). What's the point? If someone sees no way to fix anything and has no resources I can almost understand how they got there. At this point, things blur with mental health issues and health care. People who kill themselves because they were broken hearted, blackmailed, not accepted, depressed, mentally ill, or because they commited a crime fall squarely in the bucket of those who needed professional help.

I don't think religion helps at all because it's not as black and white as they say, IMO. The last thing the survivors need is for their religion to lay on the evil shame about it all. They don't need to be taught that their grandpa was a sinner for not wanting to suffer the last stages of cancer. Religion in general does not have a way to celebrate the decision.

It all seems odd when someone might essentially commit suicide to save others (burning house, war situation, etc.). That blurs with being a hero.

Support is out there for everyone who faces suicidal thoughts, and I don't think religion is the best source.

Dagny wrote in part:

"Support is out there for everyone who faces suicidal thoughts, and I don't think religion is the best source."

What you say is true in the U.S. and most developed countries. Sadly, it isn't true everywhere. And criminalizing or talking about suicide as a si, as you rightly point out, doesn't help the situation.

I agree. I stand corrected because there is NOT always support everywhere. Having a suicide hotline is not enough.

Doesn't living gospel principles cure depression and prevent suicide?

Being on good terms with god does save you from the heartbreak of lost car keys. That's a day brightener.

    You can always tell who is TBM and who isn't . . .

    TBMs don't bother signing up with the Auto Club!