Once, out of the blue, my 18 year old son asked my husband and I if we loved each other. I said love in a marriage can ebb and flow etc. etc. My TBM husband ignored his question, left the room, came back a little later and continued a different conversation with us.

Once, months later, I asked him during a fight, "Why don't you love me?", He wouldn't say - but he did not deny it. He has since told me that he loves me - but I don't feel it. Recently we have been going through rockier than ever times, and he says it less and less. By the way, we have no sex life at all.

I feel we should stay married until all of the kids turn 18, which is about 8 more years, but I don't know.

How many here have stayed for the kids sake, and did it make a difference to them? If you don't mind my asking.

Do you get along in general? If you argue and things are usually tense seek out a marriage counselor or leave the relationship. Not a healthy environment for anyone.

I want to also point out that an 18 year old is even more opinionated than a 10 year old. If you can work out a cooperative parenting relationship in two separate households then you should consider it if you don't see any way to save your marriage. Statistically children do just as well if you can work together in the children's best interest, some say even better if there was a lot of tension in the marriage.

People need that emotional connection, and from what I've seen it's really unhealthy to stay in a loveless marriage. You're setting one or both of you up for an emotional affair and lots of drama. It might not happen, of course, but it's hard to stop if someone comes along who gives you (or DH) something you've been emotionally starved of for a long time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2011 01:05AM by vhainya.

Hi - sorry to hear of your rough times.

I'm 43, I don't have kids and I'm a nevermo. I can't really put myself in your shoes but I will this: every single one of my friends came from families where their parents divorced while they were kids/teens. They survived and are perfectly sane, well functioning adults... though have had their family issues. But so have I and my parents were married until my dad's death (60 years!).

Eight years. Sounds like a prison sentence.

Happy parents are better parents, whatever their marital status, imo.

Just sayin' (to quote Ron/Tabula Rasa).

From very recent,personal experience,I say a big no to staying till the kids are 18.In my case things were so stressful,lots of arguing between ex and I and there was obviously no respect. I live 45 minutes away from ex,with my 11 and 8 year olds,and it's wonderful. We have been here 5 months and things have gotten so much better between the 3 of us. Mainly NO fighting between the kids. They get along and play together,and I sit and watch them and know this would not have happened if I had stayed married.
Good luck to you!

After his dad and I began living separately, our youngest son's grades actually went up, as the stress level in the house had dropped. If I had only had the means to file fifteen years earlier, it would have been much better for the older three. They coped with the constant stress in various ways. One got pregnant at 17. One became an overly devout member. She's the only active TBM of the four. The third withdrew and stayed in his room most of the time. They are still dealing with some of the their psychological distress that our bad marriage brought on, and they are in their thirties and forty, now. My youngest has some emotional vulnerability, but not like the other three have had. I blame the Morg at least 50% for the marital discord.

you end up with a bitter end.

one of the things that ticks me off the most, is all the thousands of hours that I spent in stupid MORmON meetings being given (TOTALLY WORTHLESS) MORmON counsel which was being told that I had to be married like it was a line on a skipping record, as if all the general social, culutural & biological pressure in that regard wasnt already overwhelming enough & then being told that counsel was the best, most precious thing in the world for life prep.

Not so much as one word about what to do if your partner turns out to be homosexual. Not one word about if your partner turns out to be insane. Not one word about if your partner turns out to be both. Not one word on times when its acceptable & best to get a divorce. Not one word about why divorce is LEGAL!

Then when the day comes, you feel like you are on a boat thats sinking. LDS Inc tells you to stay on that boat until its underwater, until it hits the bottom of the lake, where ever that is. they tell you not to worry, to stay on board because you have recieved thousands of hours of their precious life prep swimming instruction ....and after all your marriage was *solemnized* by a STUPID ASS SECRET HANDSHAKE.

MORmON life prep swimming instruction, which LDS INc insists is the best in the world, turns out to be sitting in a MORmON class room listening to some one say "this is how you swim,
but most of all, if you do whats right you wont find yourself in this situation!" while they flap their arms in the air.

then they want their 10 % for this invaluable instruction!

what a bunch of MORmONS!

As a child of unhappy parents who stuck out their marriage until death, I guess I'd have to put in a vote for stick it out. Teens don't need anymore excuses for angst. But admit that this is what you are doing and just get on with making something of your lives in the new arrangement. If you aren't having sex you're already most of the way to separated, just one where you are still living in the same house. Admit that's what you are doing and get on with everyone's lives. It's a partnership aimed at raising the kids, which is a small change, really.

Worse situation you could end up with is using the kid in the middle to get at the other partner. Personally, I've seen that happen way easier when all parties aren't under the same roof and have to live, immediately, with the consequences of childish/unpartnerly behavior.

People grow apart. It happens. But everyone needs to keep behaving like adults, especially the adults, if you want this to not impact the kids down the road.

But just my humble opinion.

This is a difficult question. I am not facing this myself, however my DH grew up in a home with alcoholism, tons of fighting and domestic violence. His parents stayed together until he was in his early 20's. (He is the youngest.)

He has said that he is thankful that they were able to stick it out until he was an adult and out of the house. Personally, knowing what I do about his childhood I think it may well have been better to end it much, much sooner. Two opposite opinions from the one who lived it and the one who is looking in from a perspective of hindsight. Very difficult question.

Best wishes to you and your family as you make these tough decisions.

Marriage counseling does nothing. It doesn’t show whose at fault or where the fault took place for the most part. All they do is let you talk and not agree or disagree. I’ve been to 3. Save your money get the lawyer

Dh's parents separated when he was 7 or 8. They got back together a few years later, and he tells me all the time that he wishes they would have just divorced. He knows they were both happier apart since he lived with them each for part of the time.

His relationship with them now is fairly strained because he is still pretty mad at his mom and very disappointed in his dad for not pursuing their own happiness years ago. I get the feeling that part of his anger is because he hates feeling like his parents are unhappy in life because they stayed together for him and his siblings.

From my point of view, I know I never had to ask my parents if they loved each other, and I can't imagine that it's very healthy for your children to be in a situation where they can tell their parents don't.

I'm with the posters that say the situation will be way better if you are separated but actually happy. (As long as you two can still work together for the good of the children and not end up using them as pawns to hurt the other.)

I divorced when my kids were 6 - 13 or so. I believe it's better for the kids to see their parents happy and living life in a good way than to see their parents together. I believe it helps them also form appropriate and happy relationships themselves.

As the child of parents who divorced when she was 14, I agree.

Staying in the relationship for "for the sake of the kids" really isn't. It's showing the kids to suck it up and suffer in a relationship that's not working, instead of finding healthy and happy ones.

From my point of view, the "for the sake of the kids" thing really pushes the blame onto the kids. If it weren't for them, the couple would have divorced.

That's incredibly unfair to the kids.

50 reactions. You can talk to all the kids in one family and each one will be effected differently.

My ex did leave when our twins were 10. I had told him he could cheat all he wanted (with men)--he could have a boyfriend (he already had, so what was the difference). We even finished the basement so he could live down there. He could just not bring men home while we were raising our kids. I just wanted him to be there to help raise them. We had already been through the arguing after I found out he was cheating several years before. I had determined it was better to have 2 parents than 1--and that financially our children would be much better off.

He chose to leave--actually on the advice of an LDS therapist. The therapist said that it wasn't fair to me to live like that--I think THAT WAS MY CHOICE--not the therapist's.

Now my ex wishes he had stayed. He cries about it--about the fact he left his kids when they were 10. All he ever wanted was children. He even had access to them any time he wanted, but he was so busy discovering himself that for a time, they considered him more of a distant uncle. We found peace some years back and he has a pretty good relationship with his kids--EXCEPT he is living in our house with our son now while I live with my boyfriend most of the time. Last time I went home--my son said, "Oh my hell--how did you LIVE WITH HIM?!?!" (He is very much OCD, but my son is no picnic--he is 25.)

Either way--it would have been difficult as my ex would have driven our kids NUTS with his OCD once they became teenagers. I and the kids got along quite well, but the financial disaster that happened after he left was very damaging to all of us--although my daughter told me recently that was she spoiled, that she got everything she ever wanted. Believe me, the years after he first left and I was left to take care of EVERYTHING and he didn't give me much money--they really were living hell for me. My kids suffered because of it.

Personally, I would have stayed and now he wishes he would have. He doesn't have a partner. I didn't have a boyfriend until after my kids graduated high school.

Sorry so long--but what I went through after he left was horrible. It doesn't mean he should have stayed.

EVERY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT. I like what someone else said--make a life of your own. Co-parent. My parents argued endlessly and I often thought they should divorce. In the end, they did the right thing by staying together. This I can say--you can NEVER give your kids back an intact family. That is what I regret for them the most. Nobody will love your kids like their dad does. This goes both ways. Step-families are DIFFICULT no matter how old your kids are.

In my opinion, it didn't help.

All the kids learned was a bunch of dysfuntional behavior by seeing their mom manipulate, lie and go behind their dads back.
All the while claiming he was the problem.

His kids are very messed up, even thought he stayed for their sake.

I did stay for 6 to 8 years! I would do it again, why? It all depends how bad is the realatioship with your wife or husband , My 4 kids are doing great! So far so good. We did not have , physical abuse no alcohol or drugs, no smoke, no bad word or abusing languish. I know my kids did lot better with me there than not be there in the end I left few months before my last one turned 18. Last 6 months she new time was coming and we got a lot drama! She said the love me and it was painful to me be there, me I thought she did not love me, she didn’t said it before, I star doing activities to keep myself happy and feel that I belong and feel that I deserve to be happy. I learned that my happiness is on my hand and no body else. Can you leave 8 years from the love of your kids? 8 years not cheating? Probably not? If you want to stay you have to be careful not arguing from kids be flexible showing how much you love them respect your partner. Above all not cheating be an example to them. If you can! Maybe is better to leave them. But if you do.Be for them,work for them, love them give them time. Don’t star leaving your life like a single but as divorced parent with a lot of responsibility.

My parents stayed together until my youngest brother was 20, and it was a relief when they split up. They had their ups and downs for years, but the last 5 years was sheer torture. It's not fun being a kid with feuding parents. If you think you can get along better divorced, then split. If you are just going to escalate the fight, then you aren't helping anyone.

One key is if you make enough money to get by on. My mom couldn't and I think that's why she stayed so long. A poor parent is an unhappy one.

Well adding my two cents worth may be a waste of time because what I am going to say has already been said in one way or another, but here goes.

I stayed until my youngest was 18 then bolted. In retrospect I can see that what I did was not the best thing for my kids.

My oldest is on his second marriage. Although he seems happy and so far they are doing great, he went through hell before he finally settled down.

My second has been married and divorced twice, since the second divorce she decided to try lesbian love for a while, decided that wasn't what she wanted and then last Christmas she went with some jerk to a hotel and got beaten to within an inch of her life. She still makes bad decisions but the bottom line is that she never saw what a healthy relationship should look like and it has screwed her up. She doesn't want kids.

My third moved in with his girlfriend and her parents when he was 17 and married as soon as he turned 18. They have been married for almost 8 years and seem to be doing ok but their relationship is unique and I honestly don't think either of them could be married to anyone else because of their distinct personalities.

My youngest is still living with me, now 20 and he doesn't seem to have much interest in any kind of lasting relationship.

So no I do not think staying is worth it. Better to end it and let them see both parents happy in a healthy relationship with someone else than stay together showing them a screwed up relationship just so you can both be there until they are 18.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I am going to give it some more time. I wish I had a crystal ball that would predict the happiness of all involved (especially our children) either way (stay or seperate). Since that is impossible, I think I have to go the safest route, and stay with a hope that our relationship will improve to a more tolerable level.

That’s my plan. Waiting til 18 and leaving. Here’s the house and the keys. If things change for the better I’ll stay. But I doubt it.

Married 17 years here 2 kids 12 and 13. I can't wait until the youngest is 18 I will move out and file for divorce to get out of a sexless marriage. I don't dare do it before because child support is half of your gross income if the mom ends up with the kids. Might as well suck it up then divorce after they are 18 unless the guy is a loser and job hops to avoid paying. They garnish wages so u can't get out if it.

There are studies that find children of divorced parents struggle.

But I wonder how much of the harm of divorce comes from the idea that it's a bad thing. The family is "broken" which implies that the parents have failed, and that the child's world is going to be broken.

I think that kids fare well where they have one, but preferably two parents who love them, are committed to them, communicate and reason with them, and have high expectations of them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2017 06:00PM by thexedman.

My two cents. Marriage love does ebb and flow as you say. I do not live in your situation or even pretend to understand fully, but a couple points come to mind for what it is worth.

1. Can you turn the tide? Is it possible to stear this marriage back in a positive direction? Slow work certainly. Or is there a deal breaker such as abuse etc?
2. Divorce of my parents calmed the situation and I believe it was better for all.

No matter what your situation happens to be, the best way out is straight through the middle.

1) Hire a detective, or, if you can't afford one, become a spy, yourself. A private detective is cheaper than therapy, and if you know the truth, it will save you years of guilt, and wondering "what if I had done something else."

My ex-husband obviously didn't love me, and he didn't love our children, either--and we were good at being a loving, nurturing family for him--we gave him everything, and did everything we could to please him.

If someone had given me the good advice to hire a detective, I would have found out about his numerous serial sexual affairs, and I would have left him sooner. (He was a "good Mormon boy" that I met at BYU.) His cruelty, spanking the kids with a coat hanger, calling us names, his neglect, his never going to the children's sports games or school activities or Scout activities, his broken promises, his lack of respect for us as human beings, caused us to suffer from low self-esteem. We did recover, once he abandoned us for good, but it took years, and therapy for me and my daughter. My sons didn't get married until they were 35 and 37, and my daughters were 26 and 28. They had issues to work on, first, so they concentrated on their educations and careers, until they were ready. They have spouses, homes, and children, and are very happy, now, but the divorce was the hardest on the oldest child, who was 13, and easier on the younger children.

Because you have "no sex life at all", the chances are high that your husband is getting it elsewhere.

Next, you need to get as much control of your assets as possible, without him realizing what you are doing. You will need money to pay a good divorce attorney. My cheating ex abandoned us without any money, and refused to pay child support, even. I had to sue him. We got a few months of minimal support, but my ex had successfully hidden all of his assets. Even though we had to struggle at first, my children and I got the better deal. We had each other, we had love, integrity, new self-respect, and self-reliance. Had we remained duped by my narcissistic ex, and entrapped in the Mormon cult, I hate to think what might have become of us.

Yes, 8 more years does sound like a prison sentence. I'm sad for you. I pray you have the strength to face up to this, and to do whatever is best for you and your children. Go for the "universal good", meaning, what is best for you AND what is best for the children. You will face some tough decisions.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.

I'd just like to point out that, as the original thread dates from 2011, the OP only has 2 more years to wait (if she stayed).

I stayed until the children were 18 (21+ actually).

Why did I stay?

1. I knew that my ex-wife would have used the children as weapons in any dispute between us. She would have certainly viewed them as her "income stream."

2. If I left I would have had no influence over my children. My ex-wife would have unrestrained access to preach (and assault) our children - all driven by her unbounded zeal for Mormonism.

When did I know that I would be leaving?

A gradual accumulation of events... But a major trigger was when I arrived home to learn that our son was arrested for sexually abusing his sisters *and* that his mother knew about his crimes for over 2 years but declined to report him because "we would have difficulty at Church." I always knew my wife had "issues," but I never viewed her as dangerous to others until that revelation.

But the children were only 13, 10 and 7 and I couldn't leave them alone with their mother at that point.

Why did I go when I did?

1. The children were leaving home (or so we hoped?). I realized that when the children left I would become the sole object of my ex-wife's wrath.

2. I had an opportunity to work in another province creating a natural break. My youngest daughter was 21 by then.

What happened to the children?

Son 33 - Homeless vagrant who may be on a street near you.
- Has never been employed nor sees any reason to become employed.
- Convicted sex offender (for additional offenses as an adult).
- Been imprisoned ~12 times (that we know of)
- Uninvolved with LDS Church
- Has lost custody of his child (to his mother - which neither he nor I view as positive)

Daughter 30 - Graduated university on scholarship in Canada and Australia
- Leads her company in sales
- Owns her home
- Active in an LDS singles ward (far away from her mother)

Daughter 27 - Graduated high school but then dropped out
- Never sought achievement or employment of any kind
- Hoped a guy would rescue her -> married a non-member
- Has 2 children
- All (her, hubby & 2 kids) live with her mother
- Partially active because her mother is very demanding



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2017 04:01PM by idleswell.

I don't know that staying for the kids is ever the right choice. But making a full effort to make the marriage work (and love can be grown if both want to) should be a prerequisite to any divorce.

Doing ANYTHING "for the kids"--always a big mistake.

Generally I think of it as a cop out to avoid facing/fixing problems.

Tension in the home is unbearable to everyone.

Love is the Only reason to stay.

Children grow older and eventually understand.

Happy parents happy children.

Simple really.