I went to BYU. Graduated in an engineering discipline (always trying to be discrete). Later went to a PAC12 school for a master's degree.
My experience? BYU is light years ahead of this other school in terms of academics. The students are all pretty good students, the teachers demand alot, and I think I got a pretty good education.
None of that changes the fact I don't believe now in Mormonism, etc., etc.
I know the school has problems with academic freedom. I didn't like the smothering culture, but the stuff I learned was great in terms of engineering principles.
ASU was a complete joke. I also took some classes at the U of Michigan. In both cases I thought BYU's competitiveness among the students was far above the group of students at these other two schools. The teachers were better at the Y also. They actually taught classes.
Don't confuse my praise of BYU with any liking of the Mormon church. I don't believe it. And yes in many ways BYU has alot of problems that would make going there again for me impossible...
I also got my undergrad engineering degree at BYU, and I went straight into my career afterwards. I now work with grads with all levels of degrees from all univesities in Texas and several without, and from my observation I was more prepared for my profession than most of them, and just as well prepared as the rest.
BYU engineering was definitely good, and it also seemed to work as insulation from the religious and beaurocratic aspects of the school, that I had relatively little interaction with.
I agree. I graduated BYU in an engineering discipline and got a good education. We were heavily recruited by industry, even though at the time, many people weren't getting hired right out of school with other degrees.
I think I got a great education and came out with areas of study that were not included in degrees from other schools, which gave me an advantage. Never missed a day of work for not having a job in the 20 years I've been out.
I don't like what BYU stands for as far as religion, but for engineering and business at least, they are top notch.
Many have posted here about the frustration of YBU credits not being transferred to other universities. This is in part of the accreditation problem and at I'm figuring that the family studies (Morg-based courses) not being accepted by other colleges. But really, it is the greatest of the most white and delightsome colleges in the country. Bob Jones University is somewhat stricter as far as honor code, but at least they have guidelines for firearms storage on campus.
This is a world where the world is 6,000 years old, evolution does not exist and people dressed as pioneers inhabit their own planets. Don't throw out "light years" please, as it is not compatible with doctrine, as it involves physics. Joe's peep stones didn't help him with that concept.
I know engineers who are successful and their careers are advanced due to their lack of cult membership.
I guess "light years" is a term pulled from Sci Fi, which is fiction, just like the BoM.
Graduated from the Y too and even though I believe mormonism is crap, I got a pretty good education in the Marriott Business School. The faculty were mostly great.
Hee hee, grew up less than a mile from Point Loma College! Hence my handle. Went to Point Loma (public) High School. The campus now occupied by PtLoma Nazarene used to be a Methodist school called California Western University in my day. Cal Western moved and sold the campus to the Nazarenes.
One factor that pushes BYU down in the ratings: degree completion rates. Obviously, many women never complete a degree if they marry and pop out babies.
I have some questions about methodology, in case anyone knows:
1. How many years do they give to complete a degree? TBMs are obviously at a disadvantage if they do a mission.
2. Do they look at the type of majors the students take? I.e. is Family Life or Home Ec (common majors for BYU women) given equal weight to chemistry or Spanish Literature?
Good value for money because it's heavily church subsidized. If it had tuition at the level of, say, Notre Dame, there would be fewer takers. I think the #1 reason why the TSCC invests so much money into it is because it's a breeding ground for future TBMs. For many TBM parents from outside the Corridor, BYU represents their best hope of their child finding an eternal companion during college.
The church gets four years of control and indoctrination, and provides a place for young Mormons to gather and mate. It's a good investment on the church's part, and I completely understand why it does this.
They wouldn't invest this kind of dough unless there was a financial pay-off. In addition to keeping the stream of TBM babies flowing, it also trains TBMs (the men, at least) for relatively well-paid careers, which in turn generate tithing revenue downstream.
BYU may be light-years ahead in non-controversial subjects as engineering, but I wonder what it teaches in history, literature, the arts, the social sciences, et cetera.
I once thought of applying to the uni, but uh... even then the honour code scared me.
Got a BS in Electrical Engineering from YBU and then went on for a MS at the University of Utah and PhD from Rice. Both of my graduate schools beat the pants off of the Y, both in terms of undergraduate and graduate studies.
to a fairly well thought of school in Colorado. She thought the academic courses were an absolute joke compared to BYU, although the practical courses for her major were very good. Her field was music.
Another friend attended graduate school in Washington, and had a similar experience. BYU was very scholarly in that field.
I imagine it completely depends on your area of study, and who is on the faculty at a particular time.
BYU definitely has it's strengths, and weaknesses. You can get a good education, but chances are you will come up short on learning to think for yourself and having life experiences.
Kiplingers ranked 'best values' in private schools. BYU came 68th despite having the lowest tuition of all the schools in the list. Where would BYU be if its tuition was in the 40 to 50K range like the others listed? NOT even on the list is my guess.
Very salient point. I wasn't aware--until you pointed it out--that the 68th place ranking was for "best value" rather than "top universities". I agree with you---if they had Notre Dame-sized tuitions, they wouldn't make the Top 100. Most religious colleges/universities are self-supporting. It's unusual to have a private, religious school that receives subsidies on the magnitude of BYU.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2011 03:57PM by PtLoma.
is the 4 year graduation rate. BYU had 31%. Of course we all know that is low because of missions. Most other schools ranked above them had a much higher 4 year grad rate.
I'm guessing this one factor alone knocked their ranking down a lot.
I graduated from the Business School and was much better prepared than others from other comparable schools.
I don't believe in Mormonism, but in certain areas, BYU's is very competitive. You have a bunch of married kids who are two years older who don't party, they take school very seriously.
anonn Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > is the 4 year graduation rate. BYU had 31%. Of > course we all know that is low because of > missions. Most other schools ranked above them > had a much higher 4 year grad rate.
The four year graduation rate is an unfair yardstick for BYU since we know that many serve missions. However, even if a six or even seven year graduation rate were measured, to be "fair" to BYU, they'd still come up short because of the significant percentage of women who never complete a degree. If you assume that MOST of the men serve missions, and if the women all completed school in four years, you'd expect maybe a 45-50% four-year completion rate. The 31% completion rate signals that many of the women are married and don't graduate.
Yes, I know that some women serve missions at age 21, but not enough to lower the four year graduation rate from 50% down to 31%. If you assume most of the men do missions, you'd need 40% of the women serving at age 21 to drop the four year rate from 50% to 31%. Some of the drop may reflect sister missionaries, but I suspect a larger portion of the drop represents women who married and who never graduate. In essence, 40% of the women either don't graduate or serve a mission which precludes graduation in four years.
Given that not ALL men serve missions (some just don't go, plus there are non-LDS students, particularly athletes), the true four-year graduation rate is even less, since the number above assumed all men went on missions.
(some sister missionaries serve AFTER graduation, particularly if they turn 21 late in the year and are still 21 at graduation. this women do not affect the graduation rate and are part of the 31%).
I think BYU's grad rate is around 60% after six years. Still lower than the top schools, but higher than it use to be (more women are graduating), and much higher than 31%.
I think BYU needs to be ranked even lower... like at the very bottom of the totem pole. Their influence in Provo and Orem is pervasive. The academics might be great... but man, when they basically have a grip on the housing market what with the BYU standards (yes, it goes beyond the 1 mile radius from BYU) and what I perceive as them wanting to create The Perfect Utopia(tm), that uni sickens me to no end. Just thought I'd put my two cents in.
Hey Pt Loma, I am from SD too and still living in PB. I surf at the cliffs and park at the college all the time. Went to Mission Bay High. Good to see a local on the board.
On topic: I went to BYU and graduated in Construction Management. It was a very intense program and the students made it tough. My theory is familiar to others expressed here. The student population is made up of uber-nazi LDSinc loyalists. It is militant in the student culture and it breeds students that are depriving themselves of fun, and anything that feels like pleasure in life (alcohol, sex, masturbation, kissing is even looked at as bad.) So the students focus on school and sometimes obsess on it. Most teachers teach to the level of the performance of the students and grade on the curve. The dam curve was so high in some of my classes that 80% on a test would earn you a C- I was scrambling to keep up with all the nerds that were dedicating 100% of their time to school. I could only wish that they would have allowed drinking to get some of my peers to slack off and have some fun.
A family member of mine has hired many construction managers in the past. His own education is from one of America's top universities.
However, he has had the best luck over time hiring from average universities. He has commented that the top students gradewise don't always make the best managers. He has no problem hiring non-majors as long as those students have had a few relevant courses in the field. He likes students with a well-rounded background.
Summer: I would say that he is using a good strategy in selecting perspective employees.
There is a lot of teamwork involved in the construction industry and comprimise is often the best strategy to keep things moving. That doesn't always seem to be the mindset of TBM's brought up with perfection and shame as a way of life. I too would go with the well rounded and team player before going with the over-achieving perfectionist.