About five years ago I wrote a resignation letter asking to terminate my membership, without involving my stake president. (He was my neighbor growing up, and a good friend to this day) I didn't want to involve him. They sent a letter back saying that my issue had to be dealt with by local authorities and they were forwarding it to my stake president. WTF?!?! As soon as I got the letter I walked over to my stake president's house, told him about the letter and that I wanted out. He convinced me to be excommunicated instead of "having my name removed." I didn't think there was much of a difference until reading the post on here about resignation. Does this mean I'm still a "member?" That's not cool!!! How do I officially resign?

Since you did in fact turn your letter into (i am presuming) church headquarters you were legaly resigned. They lied when they told you it was a local matter. If you can prove that you sent the letter to SLC you would likely have a case to sue and force them to change the reason for name removal to "resigned".

Your best bet is to gather any corespondence with the church over the matter and consult an attorney. They would be able to tell you what kind of case you've got and guide you to your next step.

To answer your main question, in the LDS church excommunication is a centure that is accompanied by loss of membership. Basicly it implies that you were kicked out of the Church and that your membership was terminated on the churchs terms. Resignation is a well protected right in the US. If you resign it implies you left the church on your own terms based on your own reasoning and desires. They are quite different things that present very different images. So no, either way you are not a member of the church.

Though in both cases the church does maintain a record of your previous membership. They do this just in case you have a change of heart to make sure that they don't ever readmit you to the fold without sufficient humbeling/humiliation. Also because those who are readmited will never be called to a position in the church of Bishop or higher.

Please feel to correct any errors as my statements are made from memory alone.

so... I wrote a letter and said "I quit." Church responds "is it okay if we fire you instead?" I said "sure."
those tricky bastards!

that would piss me off

Yep you got distilled down to the point. If you're fine with the distinction between quitting and getting fired then there is'nt much left to doo.

Personally it would piss me off royally. Legaly you were resigned as soon as a official church rep laid eyes on your letter. All the other rigamaroll of involving the SP et all was just internal church bearuocracy and none of your concern.

Being exed can also lead to negative preceptions since there is no disclosure by the church as to why someone is exed. It could be anything.

Phillip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so... I wrote a letter and said "I quit." Church
> responds "is it okay if we fire you instead?" I
> said "sure."
> those tricky bastards!


Creepy, those are almost the exact same words I was gonna use, lol.

Because it lookes better (more dignified) for the church, if they can say,

"WE kicked HIM out"

instead of

"He told us to get lost."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2010 08:06AM by melissa3839.

I don't know why the SP pulled that stunt, but he was wrong to do it. You could quizz him if you're bothered.

I've heard of people resigning after being exed and you could do that if you're not satisfied with where you stand. Up to me, I think I'd let it go.

Sometimes locals try to fellowship exed members back into the fold as an excommunication tells them that you might want to be rebaptized.

If you live in the US, then you have the 1st Amendment rights to Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Association. Of course, the LDS Church pretends like it holds all the cards, and can kick you out if you want, but you joined of your free will and can walk out as you see fit.

They claim that you cannot resign if they want to ex you. However, their kangaroo court has no legal basis outside their own rules. You resign, they ex you, either way you are out. The only difference is their paperwork.

If you quit any other church, you simply stop going. Why is the LDS Church so special? The only power they have is what you give them.

This puzzles me. What rationale did your friend the SP offer you so you allowed yourself to submit to what is an explicitly punitive procedure? He knew and could have explained to you that resignation was a simple, no-fault procedure, basically a matter of paperwork. On the other hand, excommunication, in the organisation's eyes, is a ritual conferring guilt.

I'd like to understand how this man you claim is a friend got you to submit to it.

When I walked down there he told me a story about a girl who decided to rejoin the church after leaving for a couple years. He said that it's a lot easier to re-join if I were ex'd rather than resigned.

I got home from my mission and joined the army. I left the church after my ordeal in the military. Between the church and the infantry, I had been seriously mind-F*'d. That was five years ago and the fog has only just begun to clear.

Looking back on it, that was pretty shady. In dealing with my mother over the years, I've come to accept shady attempts at indoctrination as a sign of love. I can't change them, so I've changed my attitude toward them. Right or wrong, the fear of being subject to their ideology is gone, and I'd rather move-on.

Did any of you actually go to the court-thing? I thought it was funny when they "served" me the letter to appear. I didn't go, told 'em just to get it over with.

The best part was when the bishop and his couselor asked me to help with the boyscouts. Said the boys needed someone to teach them wilderness survivial. I said I'd do it and they never called me!!! LOL, jackass.

than after resignation.

In both cases it would involve sitting down with a bish, talking, and being rebaptized. Local leadership would determine the exact terms.

My guess is that the SP wanted take charge of you instead of accepting your resignation on your terms.

...there could be a lot of money for you in this.

You have resigned, and as soon as that letter was posted to the church, you were no longer a member. If they now choose to excommunicate you, you have a legal case against them, and a good monetary settlement. I wish that had happened to me so I could get my house paid off. (Instead, with me, everyone was like, "Meh. See you around, then." I was a case of "good riddance.")

But it is important to realize, at least, that you ceased to be a member despite any delays and letters to the SP and such. If you want to let them ex you, that's your business, but I wouldn't do it without getting a court settlement out of them.

I would love to get cash out of it. Is that true though? Would a judge order a cash settlement?

Any lawyers wanna take a stab at it?

While you're at it, you can take on BYU-Idaho. After signing a form stating not to release any information to anyone, they called and told my mom that I got kicked out for smoking pot!!! bastards.

I think you would have to have lost a job, or paying clients, or your house as a result of the exing.

Also, there's the fact that you agreed with the SP that he could do this to you.

(I'm not a lawyer but this is what I've learned from being around them.)

Psychological damage due to family being told should be sufficient for a suit but since it was some years ago a statute of limitation may prevent a suit.

If the SP got the resignation form, and wrote on it "resignation withdrawn after personal conversation with me" (or words to that effect) and sent it back in, that ends the chance of winning a lawsuit. That statement is a reasonable interpretation of what happened.

Minor point - a resignation does not take effect when you post the notice that you are resigning. It takes effect when they receive it. And a resignation can be withdrawn. So the effect of a resignation is immediate upon receipt, with no need for mutual agreement between the 2 parties. However, the effect is not permanent, if the two parties (you and LDS Inc) agree not to proceed with processing the resignation. I'm sure once in a great while people do back out of resigning. Gaack!

I doubt you would see much if any cash unless you are willing to say the SP decieved you and that you had no real intent of withdrawing your resignation. Since you got a response from the COB telling you resignations are a "local" matter that is proof that they read your resignation. At the very least you would probably be able to froce them to change your exit status with a quick letter threatening to sue or tell the news about the SPs deceptice manuver and the COBs aditional hand in the deception.The church hates getting sued and they hate bad pr more than anything. Tricking a recently returned combat veteran looks real bad on thier part by the way. If you wanted to claim damages you could say that the way the situation was handled by the church made an already stressfull situation even worse. Heck if you are recieving any kind of combat related stress managment the VA might even be willing to help you, if you can demonstrate that the added stress has cost uncle sam some money. I know for a fact that the VA is always willing to sue third parties to ofset thier own costs and at the very least they could probably give you some free legal advice on the matter.

Thanks for the advice everyone!!!
It seems that making my past the past and moving on is more valuable right now than taking the issue before a judge. Though I reserve the right to curse the church during the months when money is tight :)

So I am resigning tomorrow. With the thoughts of “excommunication” what is the real downside. I mean if your out your out correct? Part of me thinks I could care less if I’m excommunicated or resign so long as I’m no longer in.

Thanks for the quick reply and response. With that being said it doesn’t matter to me. Kick me out say I did something bad... there are no repercussions either way for me. My whole family is Baptist. In fact the only peeps I know that are Mormon are my neighbors and I live in Virginia so it’s not like there are a ton of Mormons to shake their finger at me. None the less today when it’s done and I hand my letter to the Bishop I will be much relieved. Silly church and it’s doctrines really. Best of luck with anyone else wanting to get out of the cult!

Make sure that you also send a letter or email to the Member Records department in SLC. It is not unusual for a bishop to ignore or delay a resignation. Member Records will process the resignation even if a bishop sits on it. And yes, it is true that you are resigned the minute you hand the letter over. But it's nice for the Mormon church to acknowledge that fact.

One more thing -- before you resign, remove your phone number and email from the LDS site where your contact information is kept. You will not have access to your contact info once the resignation goes through.

It's the difference between getting fired or quitting. It is generally assumed that if you get fired from LDS Inc, that it was for bad moral behavior, whether that is true or not.

You get to decide to resign. They have no say in the matter. You could already have had it done in 5 to 10 minutes to edit your information into the template resignation email and send it.

They get to decide when and whether to excommunicate you. You can ask them to ex you, but you have no guarantee if or when they will do it. Why would you want to give up the control you have with a resignation?

I would like to point out that one of the original lawsuits involving the "I quit/You're fired" controversy involved a woman belonging to a run of the mill christian church. She became displeased with the organization and gave them notice that she was quitting the denomination. The church then staged an 'excommunication' and then bruited about the community that the excommunication was for cause. The woman then sued for defamation, saying that she had resigned, so therefore the excommunication ought not to have taken place, in which case doing so was actionable. Obviously, it went up on appeal on the woman's position was upheld and healthy monetary damages awarded.

The minute the OP's letter was received, based on stare decisis, he was out of the church. Nothing else, legally, needed to be done. The action of the SP might be defensible if the OP repeated the same story regarding their conversation. But a court could agree that the SP should have known better than to engage in that conversation. Because how can you excommunicate someone who has given notice that he's no longer a member?

To receive a monetary award, a damage has to be established, as in the case of the lady referenced above.

The OP originally asked "Does this mean I'm still a "member?" That's not cool!!! How do I officially resign?"

The answer is that,in the eyes of the church,you are still a member in that you are included in their 16 million member claim. Whether you resign or are excommunicated your record is moved on the church system, to an "excommunicated" unit or a "resigned" unit. The computer system still counts you as a member. You are not taken off this membership number until you are aged 110.

So, resigning or excommunication still leaves you as a member. The preference, for most people, would be to resign. That way they take control of the situation and there is no "stain" on their record. However, for a limited few. the excommunication route has benefit. For the likes of Sam Young, John Dehlin and Jeremy Runnells (although he resigned before the court was over), a great deal of publicity was gained to the detriment of the church.

Another option is to do nothing and this may make sense for those who think it will harm their relationship with their family or extended family.

Its all about control. By exing a member, it gives them the upper hand and they get to assign you a derogatory and negative label. By resigning, its on your terms and you can tell the church doesn't like that. The church wants to paint you as the bad guy/gal.

I just walked away. That was in 1981, before resignation was really "a thing."

I was going to officially resign later, then I found out they'd ex'd me in absentia years earlier.

That was OK with me :)

He convinced you to be excommunicated because that throws bad light on you, and he wanted to shame you. Resignation means your taking your life back. Excommunication means you did something wrong, and gets the ward gossiping, what they do best, anyway. "Why did he get excommunicated?" "I hear that he was having sex with another woman..."

I honestly think it depends on the nature of your leaving. For example in a high profile case like with Sam Young, I think excommunication is the best way for it to happen. It forces the church to own and defend its position on the matter. The same for the feminists and intellectuals who are ex'd. It shows that the church is the one who is rejecting equality and independent thought. For most of us however, as our leaving is not high profile outside of our immediate family or social group, it is better to resign. Just my HO however.

One day, when I was alone in the house, (after I had been perusing RfM for a while and exchanging correspondence with the late, great Kathy Worthington,) I gathered up my nerve and decided to compose my letter.

I didn't bother with all the reasons I had for resigning; I figured the clerks don't read that stuff anyway. I basically said, "I'm outta here and I won't be changing my mind. Leave me alone." I used very formal, Victorian, stuffy language (which seems so much more cutting, if you see what I mean.)

my barely 18-year-old daughter breezed in at the moment I was wrapping up, and asked, "Whatcha doing?" I felt a moment of panic over how angry my husband would be if we both left, but I figured, she is old enough. She can do this. And Lord knows she wants to. She HATES church, despite being BIC.

After I printed and signed my own letter, she asked me to leave up what I had written. She put a few tweaks into it, (her own name, DOB, etc.) and printed it. She wanted to know where to send it, so I shared the info I had.

She signed and sealed her own letter, and we grinned at each other. I said, "We need to take these to the Post Office. Wanna hit Baskin Robbins afterwards, to celebrate?" She did.

We dropped our letters with a great flourish into the postboxes at the local Post Office, and then had marvelous sundaes at Baskin Robbins.

That was 14 years ago, and we both still enjoy the memory. She is actually my stepdaughter, but I raised her from the time she was in diapers, and we are very close. It is a happy memory for us both.

Over the years, her sibs have drifted away as well, including her temple-married, RM brother. My DH still believes, but he can see through a great deal of the official BS. I think that if he found another faith-based community, he would love it. When I did my stint returning to the Presbyterian faith of my childhood, he enjoyed attending that.

He was astonished to be invited to attend a monthly "Lunch Bunch" with other, retired guys from the congregation. He said warily, "But I'm not a member of your church." They told him, "We know, and we don't care. You seem like a nice guy and we'd love to have you join us." Until he was diagnosed with diabetes and had to reduce caloric intake, he enjoyed lunches with the guys. He was stunned that they didn't pressure him to join the church.