I went to a Catholic mass for my first time with my fiance', his family is Catholic and he went to Catholic school growing up. We've never talked about the Catholic church....it's always the Mormon church that's on my mind till a couple days after the Christmas Eve. Mass.

I told him some reasons why I will never be Catholic just like I will never be Mormon again. I said our future kids won't be indoctrinated either. Eeekk...he got offended and it sort of started an argument. I think he still believes in the Catholic church? I was amazed at how weird it was and boring. I almost fell asleep a couple of times. I am nervous about this whole Catholic thing! He said it's like you're saying how I grew up was wrong. He was like the Catholic church is no where near the Mormon church. I liked growing up Catholic and fearing God.

People married to Catholics do they expect your kids to be Catholic?? His mom has said a couple of times that she would love to take her grandkids to church with her. How do you handle this? I don't have kids right now but I am nervous. Does going once a year like my fiance' make you a good Catholic in the Catholic world? I personally don't think I will ever be religious again but still believe in God and think Jesus was a good guy. I went out of respect to his parents and just a sign of the season. Maybe I shouldn't even humor them by ever attending. My fiance' did the whole kneeling thing and chanting thing and taking the sacrament from the priest's hand. It creeped me out a bit. Similar experiences and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Before the 2 of you have kids talk alot about the church thing. And some Catholic only go 2 times a year for 45 min's a time .

Sounds like you've made up your mind without giving the benefit of the doubt. How much do you really know about Catholicism and how much is what you've assumed it is, heard through the grapevine or picked up through mainstream media?

How about trying this: check with your fiance's parish priest (or director of religious education) for the title of some books or websites that can give you an accurate view of Catholicism and it's teachings, including what's going on at Mass so you understand it and you are quite so bored.

If, after some exploration of that faith and belief system, you still feel the same as you do now, then it would be time to take stock of your relationship and future.

Your fiance and his family have made their feelings clear and it seems their faith is a big part of their lives. If you are still not comfortable with that you must ask yourself: do you think you can live with your children being raised in a way you can't participate in or endorse? Do you believe love will conquer that fundamental life difference?

Good luck to you.

As a person who was raised Roman Catholic and attended a highly-regarded parochial high school before going onto undergraduate work at a Catholic college (I now consider myself to be an agnostic), I believe I can handle your question.

If you want to officially marry your fiance in the Church of Rome, you will have to promise the priest handling the ceremony that your kids will be raised as Roman Catholics. However, unlike the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, there is no official followup from the church after marriage to insure that the promise to raise your offspring Catholic was kept.

Unfortunately, this will not keep his family from trying to enforce church dogma. And my guess, after reading your story, is that his family are just as determined to see any children raised as Catholics as many Mormon families are determined to have any children of mixed marriages raised as Mormons.

My advice to you then would be to end the relationship with your fiance--he wants his offspring to be raised Catholic, and, as you wrote, the Catholic Mass both bores you and freaks you out.

Anyway, that would be my advice. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

As someone raised Catholic, I agree with all of the other comments, but would add that many Catholics consider "practicing" Catholicism to be attending Mass twice a year on Easter and Christmas and having their kids baptized (as infants), and that's about it.

Ask your fiance what "being Catholic" means to him. Even for most Catholics who are more devout (attend Mass weekly, etc.), the time commitment is nothing compared to callings, etc. in the Mormon church. There's also no financial commitment (i.e. tithing). Nonetheless, I don't by any means think you should marry a Catholic, even a barely practicing one, if you are uncomfortable with or dislike the faith. It's not fair to him, to you, or to any kids you may have later on.

As far as having to raise kids Catholic, the church used to require the non-Catholic spouse to agree to raise his or her children Catholic, but I don't know if it's still a requirement. Even if it is "technically" still a requirement, there's no way they could enforce it (nor would anyone be checking up on you, etc...except maybe your future MIL!). I've known several "mixed" couples (one Catholic-Jewish, one Catholic-LDS, and several Catholic-Protestant) who were married in Catholic Masses, but in only one of those cases did they raise the kids as solely Catholic. In the other marriages the kids were either raised with both faith traditions or none.

Best of luck to you.

The Catholic mass is pretty different than what we experience in an LDS service. Its ok to think its weird especially if you didn't have much background info on it. Keep in mind that you are encountering a 2000 year old tradition with roots going back to antiquity. The basic structure of the mass dates back to the first centuries of Christianity.

There is a recent book and dvd series called 'Catholicism' by Fr. Robert Barron that gives a good introduction to the religion from the catholic point of view. At the least it may help you understand where catholics are coming from.

I appreciate your responses. It has been on my mind heavily the last couple of days. I am surprised now reflecting that these questions didn't rise in our dating relationship but now that we are engaged I feel like I can bring up the harder questions. I assumed neither of us were religious. I was surprised to see him go through the motions at his mass. I thought we would both just sit there and enjoy the music and not participate..but of course I am naive. It took me back knowing that he hasn't attended or spoken much about it in the past ten months of our dating(just a couple comments from his mom).

Thank you for filling me in on some of the details of what it's like to grow up Catholic because my knowledge is extremely limited about that particular religion. I grew up in the one and only 'true' church...LDS. Thank you guys.

I will have to give you an update in a few weeks or months. I hope we can work it out cause I love him a lot! He is going to have to ask himself the hard questions of what it means to be Catholic. Maybe that just means me not bashing on it? His dad and grandpa go every Sunday and it sounds like his mom is like a once a month kind of lady.

Religion is so strange to me now...since going through my fall out with the Mormon Church. It's almost like something you just don't want to deal with but have to. Thank you guys!!

The world's full of guys who don't have this particular mental handicap, who could also get along with you and be good partners.

Seriously! I wouldn't even consider dating anyone who thinks there *might* be something resembling a god, and I'm old enough that there wouldn't be any children.

Making children with someone is a serious deal that sticks you with them and their family for at least 20 years, even if you separate yourself legally. I don't care how much you love him right now; the hassle over the long run is not worth it, in my opinion.

Unless he runs off to church every week for an hour he is probably easy to live with, like most Catholics.

I don't ever remember seeing really small children at mass, they must keep them home until they are old enough to attend children's mass.

If you haven't noticed any religious preoccupation before now, he is probably just an average laissez-faire Catholic.

But do keep your eyes open BEFORE marriage for any signs of fanaticism, esp. from the MIL.

Poster Lee wrote in part:

"I don't ever remember seeing really small children at mass, they must keep them home until they are old enough to attend children's mass."

Many Catholic churches, especially the older ones, have"mothers' rooms" where young mothers could sit with infants and toddlers. These are usually at the back of the church with a glass window at the front so the mothers can watch the priest and loudspeakers so they can hear what the priest says. I was in these rooms when I was both a toddler and later when my younger sister was both an infant and toddler. Having the mothers' rooms available allows these women to attend the ceremony and take part in the communion without disruptions by crying infants.

Many newer Catholic churches do not have these facilities, and I believe that I once read or heard somewhere that the Church of Rome was trying to phase them out, but don't quote me on the latter point--I'm not sure if it's accurate.

I was raised Catholic, and am a hard core atheist because of the controls put upon women and children.
catholic teaching interferes with legislation on women, birth control, gays, and medical matters.
the refusal to provide money for STD prevention in third world countries makes the pope a murderer.
Can you live with all these problems?
Up to you.
Librarian

As someone who went through Catholic instruction (but never became Catholic), and married two men who were baptized and raised Catholic, and who has done a great deal of research into Catholicism over the years, here are my thoughts:

1) The fact that your fiance took Communion would be a huge red flag for me, especially considering that he is not allowed to take Communion unless he has very recently been to Confession, has confessed his sins, has done (or is doing) his required penance, and has not committed any "mortal sins" (the ones the Catholic Church considers most heinous) in the interval between that Confession and his Christmas Communion. (This would include have any sexual contact with you.) Neither of the men I married, after they left the Church, would have EVER taken Communion under ANY circumstances (including funerals for their parents or siblings). If he is taking Communion, he is a practicing Catholic, regardless of how he is rationalizing that in his mind right now because of his relationship with you.

2) Although there would probably not be much or any pressure on you to convert to Catholicism, there would (given the situation you describe) undoubtedly be INCREDIBLE pressure that your children be baptized Catholic...which would lead to raising them Catholic, one way or another. (If you wouldn't do it, the grandparents would.)

3) They may or may not be great pressure for your offspring to be schooled in Catholic schools, but I urge you to make certain that, if you do marry your fiance, that you NEVER enroll them in ANY Catholic school (no matter how much of a "good education" they would be promised...no matter if they could guarantee admittance to good colleges and universities...no matter what their institutional academic records might be). There are a lot of [academically] excellent Catholic schools across the country (some of the "private," "prep school" variety)...and I can tell you from my own life experience that the students in those schools, to an unimaginable extent (if you haven't been involved in some way with this), have their own personal therapists that they go to because they NEED to. In one case, "the" therapist for one of the Catholic prep schools actually said that the school in question was a breeding ground for psychological distresses of the most serious kind...and a huge percentage of the kids took presecribed psychiatric meds. (And these were really good kids, who had just been totally, psychiatricallymessed up by the Catholic indoctrination that was inseparable from the often impressive academics they were being offered.)

From what you've said here, I would be very, very careful about marrying this man. Given your words here, I think that you would have a very good chance of regretting this all the rest of your life.

I'm going to insert my responses to anonforthis's post between his/her points below. Anonforthis's points will be in quotes.

"1) The fact that your fiance took Communion would be a huge red flag for me, especially considering that he is not allowed to take Communion unless he has very recently been to Confession, has confessed his sins, has done (or is doing) his required penance, and has not committed any "mortal sins" (the ones the Catholic Church considers most heinous) in the interval between that Confession and his Christmas Communion. (This would include have any sexual contact with you.) Neither of the men I married, after they left the Church, would have EVER taken Communion under ANY circumstances (including funerals for their parents or siblings). If he is taking Communion, he is a practicing Catholic, regardless of how he is rationalizing that in his mind right now because of his relationship with you."

While you are technically correct about the taking of Communion, the fact of the matter is that Catholic priests do not follow up to make sure that all of the requirements are met with each person receiving the Host (bread). With a dwindling number of Roman Catholic priests available (most young Roman Catholic males are choosing to live full lives with wives and children), I don't see any break in that trend anytime in the near future. In fact, I very much recall attending a funeral Mass for a Catholic relative in 2008 when known non-Catholics (mostly Protestants) actually received the Catholic Communion (the priest didn't know any better).

This last sentence leads me to the point that just because a lapsed Catholic attends Mass every so often and takes Communion even less doesn't make that person a rabid fanatic by any stretch of the imagination. For example, I recently attended the funeral Mass for the spouse of a good friend. And though I hadn't participated in the Catholic Communion in the previous decade, I chose to participate that time. However, the fact that I took the bread in no way signifies that I am on the road to returning to the fold--far from it. Rather, I considered it to be a social nicety to a person who is a friend (but not a close one) who doesn't know that I actually consider myself to be an agnostic now.

"2) Although there would probably not be much or any pressure on you to convert to Catholicism, there would (given the situation you describe) undoubtedly be INCREDIBLE pressure that your children be baptized Catholic...which would lead to raising them Catholic, one way or another. (If you wouldn't do it, the grandparents would.)"

I fully agree and made note of that in my first response to Holistic (see above).

"3) They may or may not be great pressure for your offspring to be schooled in Catholic schools, but I urge you to make certain that, if you do marry your fiance, that you NEVER enroll them in ANY Catholic school (no matter how much of a "good education" they would be promised...no matter if they could guarantee admittance to good colleges and universities...no matter what their institutional academic records might be). There are a lot of [academically] excellent Catholic schools across the country (some of the "private," "prep school" variety)...and I can tell you from my own life experience that the students in those schools, to an unimaginable extent (if you haven't been involved in some way with this), have their own personal therapists that they go to because they NEED to. In one case, "the" therapist for one of the Catholic prep schools actually said that the school in question was a breeding ground for psychological distresses of the most serious kind...and a huge percentage of the kids took presecribed psychiatric meds. (And these were really good kids, who had just been totally, psychiatricallymessed up by the Catholic indoctrination that was inseparable from the often impressive academics they were being offered.)"

Wow! I couldn't disagree with you more! I went to both a Jesuit-run college prep school and a Jesuit-run college for my undergraduate work (in Arizona and southern California respectively), and I never observed or experienced the kinds of issues laid out here. In fact, I don't ever recall running into anyone assigned at either institution to helping the students adjust to Catholic teaching or to otherwise psychologically assist them. To be fair, I attended these schools between the fall of 1977 and the spring of 1985 and I am totally blind (my posting name is very accurate), but I am sure I would have observed the type of behaviors you describe here, and I didn't. I think that about the only difference I ever observed came with the high school where there appeared to be a greater obsession with sex and getting laid (it was an all-boys' school), but, other than that, I really didn't notice anything out of "the ordinary".

My hubs was raised Catholic and I mormon. WE talked about religion before marriage.

Our decision was that since neither of us cared about it that we would not force each other or the children to church.

As time went by I decided that my children could not join a church until they were able to do so as adults. 18.
You can't get a tattoo or ears pierced before then without parental consent. And making a choice to join a religion has to be much more life changing.
We stuck to our agreement, and never fought about it. And neither of our parents or families were allowed to interfere.

Those issues like money and sex can make or break a reltionship.
No matter how much you think you love the other person now, It may not be that way if those issues aren't settled.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2011 05:25PM by beansandbrews.

If you two are going to make it, you will need to meet halfway and you need to talk about it. I would suggest that you give the mass a chance. Go a few more times and learn about it before you dismiss it.Most things seem strange the first time. Then talk about it. If you decide to stay together you are going to have to make some compromises on how to raise kids, whether you will attend and if so how often. He will need to compromise too. It isn't going to work if one of you thinks you can make those decisions for both.As others have said, there are many differnt kinds of Catholics. Find out how devout he is.

The Catholic church is another check your brain at the door religion. Oh, it's a little less controlling than Mormonism in some ways, but more controlling in other ways. In order to be married in the Catholic church, you would have to agree to raise the kids in the church.

It is another misogynistic organization that systematically keeps women in a subservient role, and completely out of the power structure. If you are a "good catholic," you have to stop using effective birth control and start playing Vatican routlette. How's that for a controlling religion? You'll get to hear priests telling you how to vote (hint, it won't be for any pro-choice candidates) and how to think. And this is an organization that has protected pedophiles on a systematic basis at the expense of children. And from recent actions in Ireland, after all the media exposure on this particular topic, it's pretty clear that the hierarchy still doesnt' get it.

The heirarchy may believe all that, but many Catholics are a lot more liberal and independent than they are.

So in other words just attend on your own terms? For what purpose.?

You could do the same with Mormonism or any other relgion for that matter.


Sex, religion, and money issues seem to cause most marital problems. Oh and how to raise the children.

Best to not assume it will all be okay cause we are in love.

I'm just saying a lot of Catholics , unlike Mormons, do just that. I also said they need to talk and make some big decisions before they even consider getting married,

beansandbrews Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So in other words just attend on your own terms? For what purpose?

It may be a hard concept to grasp for people coming out of Mormonism, but yes, it's not unusual for Catholics and other Christians to do the religion to a large degree on their own terms.

For what purpose? They tend to agree with the church on the larger issues (God, Jesus, forgiveness of sins, belief in an afterlife,) and they ignore/disregard the other things. They may also like the social life in the church.

+1. I attend mass at time because I like the services and it gives me spiritual satisfaction even though I am not a believer in mauch of it, but I certainly do not see that they have a right to dictate a bunch of rules to me about birth control etc.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2011 07:01PM by summer.

Yes, but the hierarchy has all the power, so it matters not what the sheep in the pews think.

I live in an area of the country that is extremely catholic. It has been very interesting to watch the powers that be close parish after parish after parish against the wishes of the members. The members raised the money to build the churches, have sacrificed for decades to pay for the parishes, but at the end of the day, the bishops decide to close the churches and the parishoners are just plain screwed.

I attend a Catholic church and most of the people ignore the heirarchy when it comes to such things as birth control. Polls show that most American Catholics use it. A priest I know made a comment about old bachelors not being qualified to give advice about sex.I get what you are saying, but the American Catholics are not a bunch of sheep who go along with whatever the leaders want. The OP is going to have to talk this over with her fiancee, do a little studying, be willing to meet him half way and he is going to have to do the same. Maybe they can make it work. Maybe not.

As long as the members are turning in their envelopes every week, they are maintaining the hierarchy and are ensuring their role as sheep. The members have no ability to control anything within the catholic church.

I don't think the issue here is whether or not any given poster likes the Catholic church. It is whether this couple can work out a compromise. I would suggest the OP study Catholicism a bit, attend mass a few times after learning what it means to see if she still feels the same way and talk all the issues out with her fiancee. The Catholic experience can differ from parish to parish and a lot depends on the degree of committment from the fiancee and the priest in charge of the parish. The OP should make up her own mind without taking our prejudices into it.

Good job including yourself, because as far as I can see, you're the only one who seems to think it's about whether a given poster likes the Catholic church. Everyone else is just supplying information and opinions.

Not sure this is the best example to set for children. The heirarchy believes blahblah, but we will ignore it and support the club just so we can attend. Being part of a group or club has never been worth my not living authenitcaly.

But to each his own.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2011 06:18PM by beansandbrews.

I think it is a great example of thinking for yourself. Like you said, to each his own

Back in the 1970s the local Catholic school had a beer tent at their school fete.

A lot of non Catholics send their kids to paraochial schools because they can offer a superior education. Of course the quality varies from school to school.I guess my point is that I would neither just send a kid to Catholic school or dismiss the idea just because it is Catholic. Some are very good and I would not hesitate to send a kid there if I could afford it and others are not so good and I would not even consider it. Like all schools, you need to do research.I have subbed at one local Catholic school and it is phenomenal and much better than another secular private school where I have worked whi ch is overpriced, way too conservative and offers no frills whatsoever.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2011 07:02PM by bona dea.

If it's any comfort, I always found mass rather boring as well. Some people love it.

I think that it's time for a long overdue conversation with your fiance. You need to discuss the religious upbringing (or not) of your future children.

You see even in his own family that there is a range of how members attend church -- from every *day* (I kid you not,) to weekly, monthly, or just twice a year at Christmas and Easter.

You need to understand Catholicism, but even more than that, you need to understand how even the most lax members (or even former members) relate to the church. For one thing, there's no formal system of "in" or "out" once you're a member. The church won't kick you out, and it is not necessary to resign. Of course your fiance will participate when he goes to Mass. He knows the routine and he sees attending with loved ones as a way to bond with his family. He may have little to do with the church for the rest of the year, and he may not even believe in it all that much. But it's his culture, and if you want to marry him, you would do well to understand it.

I would ask him the following questions:
1) What parts of Catholic doctrine, belief, practices and teachings do you agree with? Which parts do you question? Which do you disagree with and why? (It's not unusual for Catholics to take a cafeteria approach.)
2) Do you want to marry in the church? (This may be negotiable.)
3) Do you want your children baptised in the church? (Probably a given. Superstition/custom about baptism runs deep.)
3) To what degree (or not) do you want your future children raised Catholic? i.e. Attendance at mass as a family, or just husband/kids and if so, how often? Weekly catechism lessons for public school kids? Or parochial school? At what age would kids be able to determine if they want to continue with the church on not?

FYI my maternal grandmother almost never attended church. She sent the kids off with my grandfather while she stayed home.

I don't think that I would have a huge objection to having kids raised Catholic, but for sure they would hear my view about things. Once you have a more thorough discussion with your fiance, you will have a better idea of how to proceed from there.