I can remember hearing a returned missionary in the early 1970s say during his homecoming talk that he was never going to wear a white shirt again! I don't remember any mandate to wear a white shirt at all in the 1970s or the 1980s for that matter. Nobody cared what color shirt the priesthood holders wore to pass the sacrament or anything else. Sure the GAs wore white shirts at conference time, but that's the only thing I remember other than the rule that missionaries wear white shirts.

I also have a very specific memory of a talk given by a GA in which he explicitly stated that the "priesthood had no uniform". When I heard it I remember thinking it was a message to bishops and young men leaders to stop insisting on white shirts for passing the sacrament.

Maybe I'll have a look and see if I can find the talk and what year it was delivered. It might give us a general time-line anyway.

Stunted

Stunted were you thinking of Droopy Dog's talk from 1995?

http://www.lds.org/ensign/1995/11/this-do-in-remembrance-of-me?lang=eng

Reading it again these many years later it doesn't quite have the same impact, but this is still pretty telling:


"May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament"..."That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic. We do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament (see Conference Report, Oct. 1956, p. 89)."

I guess it comes down to what "wherever possible" actually means. Appearantly here in Utah County it is ALWAYS possible for a white shirt to be worn because you WILL NOT be passing the sacrement if you don't. In fact, it's handled in a very "pharisaic and formalistic" way by the bishop.

Is this a perfect example of double speak? Doopy Dog(I love that) is saying two things at once, Uniforms aren't important but always wear your uniform.

No wonder the church screwed me up so much.

People joke about "it's the 10 commandments, not the 10 suggestions."

But Holland's "I suggest" has become "we command."

To know a man, take a close look at what he's denying.

Why then don't they require them to wear ALL WHITE?

I remember going and buying my sons and husband a stack of white shirts sometime in the early to mid 90's.

I remember being annoyed they were making such a big deal out of it. That's when I started sending shirts to the dry cleaners. I detest ironing dress shirts.

That was another cost I had forgotten about.

"I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes."

- Henry David Thoreau

When we lived in Louisiana, it was hot and humid, which we were not accustomed to. He began changing his dress shirt at work in mid-day, so as not to look "wilted." That's when I started sending his shirts to the laundry. I was NOT going to launder and iron TEN long-sleeved shirts each week.

Nothing com pares to a starched and laundered shirt no matter the color.

the 1964 World's Fair in NYC. Didn't they have a so-called "Mormon Pavilion" where they had that Christus Bosephus statue as its main attraction? After it was over they put it on display on temple square.

I think that was where the black name tag started as well as the "uniform".

It was also the debut of "Man's Search For Happiness" which was shoved down our throats at church for over 20 years.

"Man's Search for Happiness" was pretty impressive to me when I was a non-member teenager in the late 60s. They must have done their research when they came up with that film. I'm sure now it would seem pretty hokey, but it didn't take much to impress people in the 60s I guess. And didn't all the men in that film wear white shirts and ties ...

Levi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It was also the debut of "Man's Search For
> Happiness" which was shoved down our throats at
> church for over 20 years.

Yes, "Man's Search for Happiness." That's where I learned that
Heaven if full of smiling white people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5oS2pZlvgI

My mother bought me like 13 white shirts for Christmas once. She made such a big-ass deal about it (I now realize for appearances) that I literally began to hate white shirts. It was such a ridiculous thing to make a fuss over that it sort of became the epitome of stupid church commandments. Hell it's not in the scriptures and why would Jesus care what color I wear? Naturally the only logical reaction was to go to church doing exactly the opposite. Besides, word of wisdom can be hidden. White shirt and tie or lack thereof allows us to make judgements without so much as talking to one another.

From the LDS church handbook 2 section 20.4.1

Those who bless and pass the sacrament should dress modestly and be well groomed and clean. Clothing or jewelry should not call attention to itself or distract members during the sacrament. Ties and white shirts are recommended because they add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, they should not be required as a mandatory prerequisite for a priesthood holder to participate. Nor should it be required that all be alike in dress and appearance. Bishops should use discretion when giving such guidance to young men, taking into account their financial circumstances and maturity in the Church.

wowbagger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the LDS church handbook 2 section 20.4.1
>
> Those who bless and pass the sacrament should
> dress modestly and be well groomed and clean.
> Clothing or jewelry should not call attention to
> itself or distract members during the sacrament.
> Ties and white shirts are recommended because they
> add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, they
> should not be required as a mandatory prerequisite
> for a priesthood holder to participate. Nor should
> it be required that all be alike in dress and
> appearance. Bishops should use discretion when
> giving such guidance to young men, taking into
> account their financial circumstances and maturity
> in the Church.


Forgot to add; bishops that say otherwise must hate jesus and his one true and living manual.

But don't wear a white shirt and you will be made to feel like dirt.

Boilermaker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But don't wear a white shirt and you will be made
> to feel like dirt.

Boilermaker, we love you anyway.

[The word "anyway," of course, meaning in spite of your egregious shortcomings which we, who do things OUR way--the RIGHT way--do not have. But we're big about it. See? Even though you are not on our moral or spiritual plane, we STILL love you ANYWAY.]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2012 03:10PM by baura.

Jesus has rules, ya know...

Mormons are told to "obey the 'gospel.'"
Christians are called to live the Gospel--and share it.

A shirt can start out any color or pattern, but if it is righteous it becomes white and delightsome (except for the ketchup stain).

must a tie be worn?

When I first blessed the sacrament (c.1970), I wore a colored shirt. I was told that I was supposed to wear a white shirt. I was a convert and didn't own a white shirt. I went out and bought a white shirt. I also threw away my cutoffs and tank tops and got a haircut.

How come uniforms are not required by the cult for all members?...white burqas for all, MEN AND WOMEN, would make things easy. No more measuring the skirts at dances.....oh wait, THAT cannot be stopped as the penishood would not be happy campers.

Maybe they have a stash of Cousin Eddie white dickies, in the ward house, somewhere--but dickies with a tie. They have them for brides in the temple, so this makes perfect sense for the men!

Whenever I wanted to practice the organ in the chapel, I would just throw on a long skirt over my pants outfit.

Mormonism is all about cover-ups, and fake appearances, anyway.

White shirt=church broke

The church saw the corporate success of IBM in the late 60's and early 70's, and (wrongly) assumed it was because of their white shirt & tie uniforms. IBM was raking in money at the time, so the church copied their uniforms, hoping to do the same.

IBM gave up the white shirt & tie uniform a long, long time ago. Too bad the church didn't keep following them.

It was the mid-nineties when priest had to start wearing white shirt and tie to bless the sacrament. I was 14 or 15, I thought it was stupid way back then.

I do have 1 white dress shirt, but it usually gets worn at funerals or weddings. I have a white polo shirt with a company logo. I don't wear it unless I'm out of clean shirts for work. I have several white tshirt that, I wear those without issue.

Once I was in a Seattle ward that SWK came to visit the unwashed masses...

He told a story about how during WWII the British wards weren't communicating well with SLC, and the local leaders in the UK insisted that the Deacons wear (what he called) uniforms to pass the sac (that being a 'bad' thing b/c it wasn't directed from SL).

Of Course that was 'completely different' than requiring that deacons wear uniforms Today, ha ha.


Got It.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2016 01:59PM by GNPE.

It's not just those blessing/passing sacrament that wear the white shirts I've noticed all the adult men wearing white also. The TBM even wear white dress shirts to work (this is not in Utah). I've been too Mormon homes where all the walls are painted white, heard brides requesting all white towels for gifts. What is this thing with the color white and the Mormons? No one ever told us anything when we were in the church. Even asked a male friend if the adult men were told to wear white shirts. He said no and seemed totally oblivious to it.

Exactly, it's all males who are expected to wear white shirts. My otherwise TBM ex didn't like to wear white dress shirts to church, until the bishop offered to send him to DI to get white shirts. After that incident, my ex started conforming to the uniform as he had a couple of white shirts hanging in the closet. He also caved under the pressure to cut his hair and shave off his goatee which were things I liked at the time. This was about 15 years ago that this happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's still the case, as the TBM males I do know still wear the uniform on Sundays.

this is ONE AREA where the wymens have a bit more latitude, EXCEPT NO PANTS TO CHURCH!

Yes, a WHITE SHIRT & tie (no necessarily white tie, that's for the temple) are 'the uniforms of the PH'

Dark suits and white shirts long before I was born. In California, late 60s, there was a lot of talk of wearing ties and white shirts to Church. My dad would ask them when did Jesus ever worry about his dress? Then in the 90s GAs started complaining about men attending the temple in rough clothing and unshaven. So they started regulating that too. I never did. I figured it made no difference once dressed for a session. When my stepson got married some dip descendant of Hyrum Smith serving in the locker room boasted if he had his way nobody could enter the temple at all without being clean shaven.

When I went to Norway in 1969 the Church had just eased up on missionary dress. We still had to wear dark suits, always white shirts, suit coats until summer, hats in winter--officially designated dates by the MP. When mine got wind of my zip-up sheepskin-lined boots he told me to go get some galoshes to cover my dress shoes. During winter months Norwegians ALWAYS kicked off their shoes at the door, so galoshes were a total pain (besides which they ruined the dress shoes if slush got inside). I got tired of getting my pant cuffs slushed so a zip boot was great to tuck them in, and slip them out for dress occasion. I ignored the MP's directive, quietly.

One of the bad things about that cult is once somebody makes a public cry about some nonsensical thing, the diehards come out of the closet and try to show their obedience by being overzealous. Soon it is a new "policy" without ever having been sanctioned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2016 07:18PM by stokars.

The requirement started about 1994. Some drone during General Conference made a remark about how good Missionaries looked and how wonderful it would be if we all looked like Missionaries all the time. Everyone jump onto this is what must be done.

The white shirt requirement is a Mormon urban myth for the past 25 years. No joke.

in order for all things evil to become white and delightsome.

The ingredients were revealed to Smith by Michael the Starch Angel.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2016 03:56AM by steve benson.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1914142



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2016 06:30AM by steve benson.

When robots produced enough robots that even the little robots were CONvinced this was normal (to not think, feel, or act [normal]).

until I went to the LTM in late 70s.

Our bishops didn't hassle us about dress or hair they were just happy we showed up. This was in Davis County Utah.

I think a lot depended on your local leaders and community.

I could not believe what life was like at BYU when visited my brother or attended activities. I was sure of one thing I never wanted to go somewhere where so much attention was paid to outside appearances and so little to learning about the world.

When I first became a the young men's president, I realized that the previous president must have been big on the white shirt thing, because the kids would intentionally wear colored shirts, then tell me that they couldn't participate in the sacrament. I would ask them, "Were you out getting drunk, robbing stores and raping women over the weekend? No? Good, then go pass the bread and water."

My dad was a huge follower of rules, for the sake of following the rules, without questioning the validity of any of it. There was a thing that went around for a while where you could only take the sacrament with your right hand. We used to get our hand smacked hard if we reached with our left. So yeah, it was white shirts every Sunday, too. This blind following never sat well with me, and is one of the many reasons I was never really able to feel like I belonged in the church, in spite of trying for decades.

Right hand sacrament taking yes!!! I was taught that as well..

Good grief, I forgot about that

The left had was a big old no no for the sacrament for me too. My grandmother had the classic stroke with right sided paralysis. The clueless deacon would put the tray right by her nose and she would struggle to get her partially paralyzed right hand up there to take the sacrament. Gosh we do some crazy things.

I left the LDS Church years ago. I would not wear a white shirt ever for a long time. I felt very uncomfortable even seeing a white shirt for years.

To relate it to the business sector, (because after all, the church is a corporation,) back in the 1970s, the gold standard of companies was IBM. If you were a college graduate and could get a job with IBM, you would have been the envy of your classmates. The "uniform" for their sales force was a white shirt and suit -- they were well known for that. No other company that I know of required a white shirt back then. But they did.

So the white shirt and suit became the most prominent face of corporate America. It became synonymous with respectability and achievement. IMO it may have been a contributing factor to the increasing importance of a white shirt for the priesthood in the Mormon church.

Now when I see photos of a Mormon congregation, the preponderance of white shirts looks creepy to me.

Yes, there was a time when the two organizations that were most associated with white shirts were IBM and TSCC. At least IBM moved on.

I do remember a time when the white shirt mandate seemed to temporarily go away (in the late 1970s - early 1980s). When I reported my mission to the Stake High Council in 1978, I was facing a large table surrounded by 12 men, all in conservative suits and ties, but only a couple of them were wearing white shirts. For a few years after that, I often wore colored shirts to church, but eventually I was pulled back into conformity.

The white shirt sends a message of your willingness to conform and not think too much about it!
I recall once back when I was attending, Hinckley spoke at a regional conference. He made a joke about how the clock in the chapel needed to be at the back of the chapel where the speaker could see it clearly, rather than on a side wall. By the next week all chapels in the area had the clocks moved to the back wall.
Follow the profit!

My never Mormon friend likes white dress shirts for work even though his company cares not at all. He emailed me asking me how to get them back to very white. I told him, burn them and buy blue shirts.

I have one coworker who will regularly wear a white dress shirt to work. And I must admit, he looks fantastic in it.. Of course he doesn't pair it with the dark nylon suit and tie.. And the shirt is well fitting, tailored at the waist..

(just pretend I haven't looked carefully enough to be able to describe him so well..)

I thought it was red shirt.

Shirk!

All my shirts are black or dark blue. I don't own a tie. Mormon leaders are like soft Nazis. Pharisaic? Oh no, not at all.

Did it have anything to do with a man date?

Helps to make sure everyone's conforming?

It was the last day of my mission that I quit wearing white shirts. I was at the Roanoke airport with some time to kill before my plane was to depart and I wanted to purge myself of any appearance of being a missionary. I already tossed my nametag and white bible into the trash. So, to complete the purging process and eliminate any look of a missionary, I went into the terminal restroom, which was deserted for the moment, and found an empty stall.

Once inside, I took out of my carry-on bag a nice blue colored dress shirt that I had been saving for over a year for going home. I unwrapped the blue dress shirt and hung it on the door hook. I removed my suite coat, vest, and tie, stuffing them into my carry-on bag. Then grabbing my worn out white shirt with both hands, I literally ripped it off my body popping off most of the buttons in the process.

It felt so satisfying to rip off that old, worn out, white shirt and to watch the dislodged buttons ricochet between the walls of the stall then to dance all over the floor. From that moment, April 13, 1979 at about 10:50AM, and to this day, I have never worn a white shirt again. Even today, the thought of putting on a white shirt disgusts me. I cannot even wear a white T-shirt.

After putting on my new blue dress shirt, I took a moment to admire myself in the restroom’s mirror. No one could now view me as a Mormon missionary. I loved how I looked. I considered flushing the old white shirt down the toilet but had to refrain myself from such amusement because someone else came in to use the restroom. I just threw it into the restroom’s garbage bin as I walked out, smiling as I did so.

Where I live, not only was a white shirt required but a jacket and tie - and the tie had to be simple - plain or striped. As I am never one to conform completely, I found some really neat ties and the women loved them! Because of my profession, I always wear a tie - but not a plain or striped one.