I have noticed that it is very common that some authoritarian people do not choose to reply a greeting. It is like they do not want to show normal respect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2012 06:43AM by volrammos.

There are a lot of hierarchical social norms based on who has the most power. I saw the documentary on it once that showed the when coming to a doorway, the powerful one motions for the weaker one to go through first. It gives the image of the weaker one being directed, and taking directions from the powerful one.

It showed clips of Regan and the Soviet Leader doing a little dance as they approach to positions themselves to be the one to usher the other one. It got way comical when it was two Arab leaders who were each refusing to go first.

I suppose being given a greeting, and then being in the position of having to respond to someone else’s prompt would perhaps fall in a similar category.

Yes. Something like that.

I notice that some people most of the time insert a kind of theatrical silence.

Person 1: Hi....

Person 2: Long silence....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2012 12:11PM by volrammos.

Interesting, I would have incorrectly guessed that the powerful one goes first.

I suppose that kind of fits with men opening doors for women in our male dominated society. Interestingly, this is nearly universally considered chivalrous.

Chivalry is the romanticized word for treating women like objects/prizes.

I used to see it all the time at the elevator where I used to work. Alpha male type guys would hold the elevator door as a favor to the laggards, as if to say, "By the power of my mighty hand, I hold back these terrible doors, thus saving you. Be grateful unto me, oh little ones."

On the other hand, there were those who would hold the door out of politeness, not realizing they were being rude to those already in the elevator who just wanted to go already.

the driver in front of you who stops to let in other cars, not realizing (or caring) s/he's making the same decision for everybody behind him/her regardless of if they wanted to or not, or if it's the most efficient way of moving traffic...

I've had doors held open for me many times and I've been very grateful -- usually having my hands full with children, grocery bags or the like. I've also held doors open for others, male and female alike, because I could tell it would be helpful for them. I think you can tell a lot about the motivation of someone who does something kind or helpful by their demeanor. I suspect that most folks who hold open doors do so as a kindness, not a power play.

(I make no judgement on the gesturing people through first thing, though.) :)

When the powerful world leaders did it, it looked like just a gesture of politeness, but then when you knew what to look for you could see that they were trying to discreetly position themselves to be the one slightly behind the other so that it would look natural. Hold doors for women, and if we get to the door at all near the same time. I'll also hold the door for other guys if we get there even closer. I'll pause to hold for women.

A lot of social interactions in humans and animals feel quite normal and natural. But I can see how it evolved in culture to hold doors for women because they were the "weaker" sex. Women were conditioned to want to have a male "protector", so it felt nice. But if you totally overthink it, you are being patronized to some effect.

I usually don't overthink it, and do it to be polite. As I said, other than the Arabs, it looked quite natural, but it does slightly show who feels that the other needs a strong guiding hand.

But a true powerful one would be secure in his knowledge of his power and would not mind going first.... ;)

I despise mindless ritual. Because of the cult.
I have several coworkers who insist on the morning ritual of charging down the aisles at work greeting everyone by name, but not stopping to talk.

I've taken to wearing headphones and ignoring them. If they sincerely cared to greet me, I would respond, but I will not play their game. It's a power game. One of them got bothered and pestered me for not answering. Again, didn't care why or anything about me, he just wasn't getting the reaction he wanted while passing through verbally poking everyone.

I told him I don't like people. He doesn't greet me mindlessly anymore. :D

I think you are on to something.

Yes, I sense that I would be a bad person if I do not greet everybody. I feel a shame before and after. Some people may not say hi because they do not like formality.

Do not know.

I feel a hunger for relation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2012 12:42PM by volrammos.

Lol....you told him you don't like people!

I feel so close to you right now.

I cannot tell you how many mormons i've known over my lifetime that do this nasty little power play.
My favorite thing now is to call them on it. A lady from the ward did this to me at the grocery store.
As we were passing each other in the aisle I said Hello. She completely ignored me. I circled back around, this time going down the middle of the aisle so she couldn't bypass me. I said, it's so nice to see you, I'm not sure you heard me say hi, how are you?
She looked mortified. Oh I enjoyed that! I bet she says hi first next time she sees me.

Now I know why the CEO of my company was irritated when I made him go first the other day. rotfl

i dont hear well and i am never certain if someone is speaking to me or not. if i say nothing i am a jerk if i say something and i was not the object of the remark then i feel like a fool. i cant win no matter what i do.

What really bugs me is the greeting "How are you?" when I know full well that the person really doesn't give a rat's @$$ how I really am. Like someone that I only see in the break room a couple times a week really cares to know all the details of my personal life and how I'm feeling on a regular basis.

And then there are the people that, when asked the question, don't realize that its just a way of saying hello, proceed to tell the innocent questioner all the personal details of his/her failed marriage, kid's problems at school, how he/she can't seem to get rid of that pesky gopher in the front yard, and so on.

This. I'm fine with people saying "Hi" to me, but when they follow it up with "How are you?" it totally bugs me. Either they don't really care how I am, or it's none of their business. Either way, it makes me uncomfortable. Even worse is when it's a complete stranger. What is the appropriate response to this? If I've already said "Hi" to them first, I'll probably just ignore the "How are you?" bit. But if they greet me first, then what? My stock answer for this is "Fine," which sometimes prompts stupid responses like, "Just fine? Not good?", which is even worse on days when I'm actually feeling lousy. I've thought about also answering in Japanese, since I know they won't understand it, but I've not gone that far yet.

I often used the word 'Hi' and 'hello'. I had a weird note re these greetings.
We were having seminar then, an educator had her first note,' hello!'
- we responded with "hi!". She said, "hello" should be answered with 'hello' also. same with 'hi'.

- its just a simple greeting,I haven't met any rule, re its use.

the 'words' hi and hello...

I have a soft voice, and sometimes people will not hear my return greeting when they say 'hi' or 'hello' (especially if there's background noise). They then think I'm being rude or arrogant when I'm not - they just didn't hear me.

Finally, I have reached the point of not giving a darn! I get the "no response" a lot from my Utah Mormon neighbors. At first, it really hurt my feelings, but now I think they are just not trained in the social graces. Where I'm from, we always say, "Hello."

When I left the cult, It actually felt good to just stare right through them, or look at the air, or go in the other direction when I saw one of them. But--they were still dictating my behavior. They were forcing me to be rude, and I'm not a rude person.

Now, I just say "Hello" or "Hi" (whatever I feel like) to everyone I used to know. I look them in the eye, but I keep the same expression I had before, which is usually smiling, because I'm a happy person. I don't say, "How are you?" because, honestly, I don't want to start a phony conversation with former fake friends. If they ask how I am, I answer, "Fine, thank you." The key is the body language: keep moving, don't stop, don't make hand gestures, and immediately focus on the task at hand. (What's next on my shopping list? That's a cute dog over there).

If I want to say something nice to the store clerks and workers, I do. Yesterday, I complemented the gas station guy on their new landscaping, and he had a very interesting story to tell about it. So many times, someone will say something hilarious, or profound, and I think, "I would have missed that, if I hadn't made a comment." In the real world outside of Mormonism, I like people, and I enjoy living my life this way.

When someone is rude to me, I put it right back onto them. That person got up on the wrong side of the bed--that's all. Truly, it is always more about them than it is about you. Don't take it personally. A lot of Mormons are narcissistic, and they see only themselves and care only about their own little existence. They don't even care enough about you to be rude to you. At the same time, they are missing out on a lot of good people around them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2012 04:48AM by forestpal.

very common in utah. i have not found this to be the case in very many other places.

i think you hit the nail on the head. it is an authoritarian, holier than thou attitude.

I don't think you can always know or assume why a person does not respond to a greeting of hello.

I grew up with social anxiety and was very shy. I can remember a lot of instances where I failed to respond. I was feeling too much anxiety and fear, that I didn't say anything and always felt really stupid afterwards.

Everyone is different and we can't read people's minds to know what is really going on.

I recently had a boss like that, but they just fired him. You could actually walk right into his office and say, "Hi," and he wouldn't even look up at you.

In my case, I'm not a boss, but I am often labelled a snob because I don't return greetings. Only in my case, it's because I'm hearing-impaired. I would never not greet someone. If I don't reply, it's because I didn't hear you. So sometimes that's something to consider.

How about people who do not greet you at all eg a colleague? How do I treat this people?

I often don't hear people, and I'm a soft speaker so they often don't hear my response. I also don't smile that much, and I'm genuinely not that interested in everyone's personal life. It's not that I'm a mean, spiteful, arrogant bastard. I'm just not good at socializing, so I keep to myself.

I'll ignore people saying hi when they are intruding. Compete strangers saying "hi" will often get ignored. It has nothing to do with being authoritarian, rather I don't like it when strangers force me to interact with them, it is disrespectful to intrude in such a way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2013 10:43PM by MJ.

"This is Tom Hanks saying, if you see me in public, please leave me be"

And I would be in complete agreement with Tom Hanks.

I also think people that intrude into the lives of famous people because they spot them in public are rudest of all.