How timely...how trendy.

What did he say exactly?

He related a story about a farmer (I think) hiring laborers to help with the harvest. The synopsis (times are approx., I don't remember the real ones) The farmer picked up some at 8am, came back for more at 10am, 2pm, 5pm, 11pm etc. as he determined he needed more help and in the end paid them all the exact same wage causing the ones that worked since early in the day to be annoyed they didn't earn more than the people who showed up with a few hours left in the day.

From there it went into not being unhappy for good things that happen to others, a lot of stuff I don't remember, pickle juice mentioned at one point.

So in other words he taught one of Christ's parables from the NT? Please tell me he at least gave a shoutout to JC?

Wow... without knowing what it actually said, so many incredibly unreasonable judgments were made... I wish your bitterness did not cloud your reason so much.

Elder Holland said:
"I wish to speak of the Savior’s parable in which a householder..."

with a citation to Matt 20:1-15.

Not a rip off. Not a modern day story. It was the actual New Testament parable.

Yes, Don Bagley, the person you just cussed at is the Savior, which offends me, not to say that offending me is wrong, but that offending Him is. Does being ex-Mormon make you ex-Christian too?

I know many of you will be upset at my post here. But in case a reader here would listen to what I am really saying, I invite you to actually read the talk or listen to it. I know that Elder Holland is an apostle of God, which many of you might not believe in, but will you really ridicule a message against envy and one that teaches about the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ? Are good things too hard to accept?

You may rest assured that Mormonism has ruined "Christianty" for me. Heck of a legacy for LDS, no? My father, a fourth generation Mormon, has the lowest character of any man I've ever met. Hey, maybe you're luckier than me, who can say?

I heard his talk and heard him say it was a parable. There's no need to get all righteously indignant because someone misheard his talk.

I accept the good things of the church. It's all the crap that I reject.

I can't believe he would try to potray this as something that happened in modern time. It is such a clear rip off of the New Testament.

But where does he get off turning this story into a lesson about not coveting the material wealth or good fortune of other people. That is not what Christ's parable was about. Christ's parable was about how everyone could receive the gift of salvation no matter if they were saved early or late in life. It is a parable against thing like believing you are more special and worthy of Gods love because you come from pioneer stock and Mormon royalty!

Yes, helemon you are so right. And was his point to say "Now all you Mormons listen up....Do continue to labor long for the organization, and don't compare yourself to someone who only helps out an hr. a wk. Complaining not allowed." GEEEESH!

Yup he stole that one direct from Jesus! I do hope he gave him credit for it. Or did he tell it like it happened to a farmer from his ward?

Did he mention if they spoke English and this was in America???

I thought this was going to be about avoiding the INS!

It was a knock off of Christ's parable. Maybe he inserted it as his own to see if anyone ever reads the scriptures and know where he really got it from!

Like Joseph Smith using Paul's speech in the BOM, or the New Testament's spiel on the "Whole Armor of God" that was put into the D & C!

I *think* he actually did give credit. I zoned out after hearing the very beginning and thinking it was a strange scene to set at the very beginning of his talk (because I too immediately thought of a Home Depot-esque setting) but he did say something about a parable.

I found this blog where some morgasmed out member summarizes all the talks from today

http://ourbusyhomeschool.blogspot.com/

OMG, her two oldest children are named Joseph and Emma. CREEPY.

Hmm, you might want your eyes checked - her oldest two are Makayla and Joseph.

OMG, she's been married 11 years and has 7 children and 3 babies in heaven! She says women should give up their so called rights and the expectation of any time alone. These blogs are the best exposure of Mormonism's cult mentality...

Sounds like he couldn't think of anything else to talk about.

...that there's no need spending your whole life slaving away for the church in order to get into the CK. You can just put in a little time at the end and you'll still get the "full pay" of getting in.

He probably meant it as a lesson on LDS culture and accepting the caste that you were born into. :((



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2012 07:44PM by me.

That time when he was brandishing an old Book of Mormon and ranting like a nut. Maybe the Sweeney interview taught him some humility.

sound like exploitation of labor. Why not use someone born in the church and others who convert at different ages?

If the church monitors this board, they must not read it. I think we come up with much better ideas than they do.

Holland's talk was about an employer who was such an a-hole he paid his part time workers as much as the full time workers. I don't care where you're from, but that is not equitable.

I'm interested in what he said about pickle juice...there is an "inside' joke going around FB with mormons about drinking pickle juice....

From Holland's talk:

"It is with that reading of the story that I feel the grumbling of the first laborers must be seen. As the householder in the parable tells them (and I paraphrase only slightly): “My friends, I am not being unfair to you. You agreed on the wage for the day, a good wage. You were very happy to get the work, and I am very happy with the way you served. You are paid in full. Take your pay and enjoy the blessing. As for the others, surely I am free to do what I like with my own money.” Then this piercing question to anyone then or now who needs to hear it: “Why should you be jealous because I choose to be kind?”"

Notice the phrase -- 'surely I am free to do what I like with my own money'. Yep, that's right. When ask to pay tithing, it's f--- you mormon church.

Can we also conclude from the parable (it is indeed from the NT) that it's okay to show up for chapel cleaning at the end? Won't you get the same blessings as someone who showed up on time?

Hey there Norman:

If you are so "offended" then by all means stay off of this site.

Norman, I have not let bitterness cloud my ability to reason. I have accepted your invitation to read the parable. Everyone, I think Norman is right. (about the message). It's a good message.

However your reference to knowing that Elder Holland is an apostle of god is not welcomed here. And yes, there are many here, like myself who being ex-mormon has led to ex-christian, so insults against the guy who you think walked on water, broke 1 bread into a thousand pieces, raised dead, bled through every pore, walked on water, healed blind, ARE tolerated here. In fact you might be the one with "clouded reason" if you subscribe to these "reasonable" claims of events performed by jesus.

I always welcome stimulating thought but honestly brother, this is a place for healing however we can.

I guess Norman removed his post? Here is what John Taylor once counseled to the members about Christianity:

"the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work that the Christianity of the nineteenth century."
Journal of Discources 6:167, John Taylor, January 17, 1858

http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/volume-06/

Norman the Norman's reply is closer to the top of the page. Still there as I post this. :)

It does seem inequitable in the story. What would be even more unbalanced is if the workers were paid by the hour but all received the same money at the end.

Personally, I like the story because like Norman said, it is about generousity and grace. However it is curious that Grace is presented using that parable in a Conference talk, because according to LDS theology, Grace is a reward for righteous action.

Said Bruce R. McConkie:
Grace:
Unlike the Christian churches, the LDS church teaches that Gods grace consists of His love, mercy and condesension toward his children. All things that exist are manifestations of the grace of God. Grace is granted to men proportionately as they conform to the standards of personal righteousness that are part of the gospel plan. Thus saints are commanded to 'grow in grace' DC 50:40 until they are justified and sanctified through the grace of our lord Jesus Christ.

Salvation by Grace:
One of the untrue doctrines found in modern Christendom is the concept that man can gain salvation(meaning in the Kingdom of God) by grace alone and without obedience. This soul destroying doctrine has the obvious effect of lessening the determination of the individual to conform to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel, such conformity being essential if the sought for reward is to be gained. Immortality is a free gift and comes without works or righteousness of any sort; all men will come forth in the resurrection because of the atoning sacrifice of Christ.

Salvation in the Celestial Kingdom of God, however, is not salvation by grace alone. Rather, it is salvation by grace coupled with obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.
Immortality comes by grace alone, but those who gain it may find themselves damned in eternity. Eternal life, the kind of life enjoyed by eternal beings in the celestial kingdom, comes by grace plus obedience. And the very opportunity to follow the course of good works which will lead to that salvation sought by the saints comes also by the grace of God.

It really is the opposite of the intended meaning of the parable.