So, I stumbled on this site when I googled a term an acquaintance used (stake president). I am stunned to read the hoops people jump through to get the Mormon Church to leave them alone. I don't get it. Can't you just not show up any more? Don't attend the services, don't participate in the functions, just basically cut off contact. I realize there are situations where it's hairy because of family connections but that would be true in any family that was devoutly religious. But this whole business of writing a letter and then getting a letter back and possibly suing if the people you've told to go pound sand excommunicate you from a religion you're breaking up with. What am I missing? What are the ramifications in the real non-Mormon world of getting excommunicated?

I hope this isn't offensive but I'm so flummoxed by what I'm reading that I figured I must be missing something. Help a gal out with some information.

Well, YOU can "basically cut off contact" but THEY won't. They will keep stalking you to try and convince you to return.

YOU, my dear Minigan, will most likely be baptized a Mormon after you die. Perhaps your grandparents and other ancestors are already Mormons. Check it out.

Then get back to us and tell us how YOU feel about the Mormon cult.

I was an organist for many years. I also raised my children alone, and had a demanding career. Nothing caused me as much stress and unhappiness as that damned cult. When I became seriously ill, I easily got sick leave with pay, plus extended sick leave from my job. They held the position open for me when I returned. My co-workers and clients gave me sympathy and loyalty. Not so with my so-called church. They refused to accept my resignation as organist. They refused to acknowledge that I was too ill to do the "Lord's work." They gave me lectures that if I would only be faithful enough, that God would make me well enough to play the organ and piano and attend all the rehearsals, etc. When I could no longer attend the Mormon meetings, the bishop came over to my house--not to give me a blessing--but to threaten me that I would become sicker, if I did not comply to their wishes. When my children refused to go to the Mormon meetings and activities, the Mormon leaders came over to our house, without my knowledge or permission, and dragged them out of bed and pushed and shoved them to church. What kind of church FORCES its members to attend? Mormonism is a CULT.

Why would I put up with such abuse? I had been brainwashed since birth that the cult came FIRST--ahead of children, and our own health and happiness. Sick, right?

Amen

There are many, many inactive Mormons who will never resign. There are a good number of folks here on this site who consider themselves Ex-Mormons, but who have not resigned and might never resign. So, some people can do just as you suggest.

If you don't actually resign, however, even if you move away, you are likely to have Mormons "coming round, bashing on your door" for the rest of your life. When a new bishop gets called or a new ward clerk, or whatever, someone will see your name on a roster and come find you and encourage you to come back to church, they will want to talk to your children, get them blessed and baptized. If you live somewhere they have early morning seminary, they will invite your high school-age children to come to seminary at 5:30 or 6 a.m. to study Mormonism.

They will follow you around the rest of your life, no matter how many times you move. Of course, they lose track of some people when they move, and can't continue to harass them, but if you have relatives in the church who are still active, or even who are inactive, but still know where you live, the church will send folks to their house to ask them about you, get your new address, and make sure someone comes to visit you.

You can ask to be put on a "DO NOT CONTACT" list, but often times who is on the DO NOT CONTACT list gets lost or when a new bishop or ward clerk or relief society president or elders quorum president gets called, there is a desire to contact everyone and invite them back, so it begins all over again. I have even been in wards where the new folks ask "Is there a DO NOT CONTACT list?" and sometimes we could find one, and sometimes not, but EVERY time we did any significant effort at reactivation, we came back with a list of people who wanted to be DO NOT CONTACT. A couple of years later, new folks in place, "Do we have a list?" "No?" or "Can't find it?" so they go bother the same people again.

So, resigning is necessary for some people to keep COJCOLDS from bothering you.

Others choose to resign because they no longer want their name in any way associated with COJCOLDS. There are a variety of reasons for this, almost all of which start with disagreeing with doctrine, but can also include the church's history of lying, its misogyny, homophobia, racism, etc.

mingan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, I stumbled

Lol, I see what you did there...

> What am I missing? What are the
> ramifications in the real non-Mormon world of
> getting excommunicated?

Well, first of all you become 10% wealthier. Then your underwear becomes nice. The hidden guilt mysteriously goes away. You become nicer, kinder and more tolerant of the people around you. Blacks, Gays and Women all become your equal and the number of bosses that you have greatly reduces. But enough of that, there are some upsides too...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 09:56AM by Stumbling.

Thanks for the answers. I am getting the feeling that I offended some and for that I apologize. I'm not coming from any place other than google (not sure about the comment pertaining to stumbling in here). I'm not religious at all. I don't attend any church. I'm simply fascinated by what I'm reading because it reads like a horror story.

I'm sorry that so many people have been treated so badly by an organization that's supposed to care about them most. Since I have no experience with anything like this, it's easy for me to say that I'd just ignore them but it sounds like they make it difficult.

Best wishes to all on their recovery.

mingan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (not sure about the comment pertaining to
> stumbling in here).

Check who wrote that comment ;)

You didn't offend anyone. Some of us are still really angry, and it sometimes comes across in a way not intended, but I assure you it has nothing to do with your questions. Feel free to ask anything you like.

My break-up with TSCC wasn't very traumatic. When I left, I had my facts in order. The bishop did call me, but I told him I had decided mormonism was simply modified masonry. He wished me luck and that was the last I heard from them. No missionaries showed up on my doorstep to try to talk me back into it. That was about 10 years ago now. At least in my area, they respect a person's wishes to be left alone.

Here in Utah, I moved to a new house and just stopped attending and participating in church activities. They still sent 12-year-old boys around to my door at the beginning of every month to collect fast offerings, and I had to tell them every time that I don't do that. I had a guy (complete stranger) call and tell me he was my home teacher and ask when he can meet with me. When I told him I wasn't interested, he said I must have been hurt very badly in the past to respond that way, which made me laugh. I told him no, I'm just busy. After I resigned my membership, the ward clerk called to ask if I had moved, because my name had just been pulled off of the membership list. Poor old guy just couldn't understand it and was sure it had been a mistake.
I haven't had that hard of a time with it because I don't actually know them personally and I usually just laugh at them, but they really don't leave you alone very easily. Mormonism is a complete lifestyle, not just attending a few meetings every week - even Mormons will tell you that. People trying to leave often refer to Mormonism as a "cult" because you can't just walk away from it - although Mormons would strongly object to that term.

Mormons are taught that anyone who questions or leaves the LDS church is a "lost sheep" and that the kind, Christlike thing to do is to "bring them back into the fold." If you quit attending, they will assume you are sinning or confused or someone hurt your feelings and will try to get you to come back and participate. They don't see any other church as equal to their church, so they think anyone who leaves has a problem. Not that they changed their minds, not that they found something else that made them happy, not that they just want to worship with different people. Those who leave are wrong ... making the biggest mistake of their lives and it's the job of Mormons who actively participate in their religion to help the person who left see the error of their ways and come back to Mormonism. Even if you resign, they will occasionally still come after you.

For the most part, they aren't trying to be mean. They usually come with fake smiles and homemade cookies or something like that. I say fake smiles because what they are thinking is "you have a problem and I need to save you from yourself" not that they really like you or are interested in you. They don't care why you left. Some Mormons will be rude or obnoxious but that's either because they haven't learned good manners (a common problem) or they think their bad manners are completely justified if they get you back to the church. The real problem is that they just won't take no for an answer or even respect you as an equal, thinking individual. You are a "service project" and are treated as such.

As far as excommunication is concerned, most people would rather resign. Excommunication is seen by other Mormons as a sign you have sinned and is shaming. They WANT to shame you to humble you and make you never want to question the church or go against it's teachings again because the shame of your actions would be too much. Even if you go through the "repentance process" you will never be equal to someone who has been faithful their whole life, although you may come close. But chances are, you'll never hold any of the big leadership positions and most people will always remember that you were excommunicated. If you move, it will probably eventually come out that you were excommunicated where you lived before and while they will be happy you got your life in order, there will still be a bit of mistrust. That's why most people will resign rather than be excommunicated. At least if you resign, you look misled rather than a flat out sinner who should be viewed with suspicion from then on. At least, that's how I've seen it. Other people don't want to resign because there are members of their family who would literally fall apart thinking they'd lost their eternal family. My FIL is in very poor health and my mom is very brainwashed. At least if they view me as inactive, they will figure I'll start attending again some day and it won't be as traumatic for them. When those two pass on though, I'm resigning and hope I can convince my kids to resign as well. They will probably both resign as adults - at least that is the plan. Then, hopefully, they won't have Mormons dogging their steps forever.

You really don't see such behavior in respectable churches.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 11:18AM by CA girl.

I "walked away" well over 15 years ago. But they kept coming looking for me BY NAME, even when I moved, they tracked me down.
I ignored, I told them don't bother, but no they came back.

They want money I'm sure. Why else would any organization hound its former members? If I don't make much money, surely I can make some babies that will make some money some day.

I think I was contacted maybe 2 or 3 times when I stopped going. I officially resigned because I didn't want any more churchy business contact.

However, if you think that gets the cult away from your doorstep, it doesn't. For the first time in over a decade, the stake prez was on my BF's and my doorstep asking "is there anything we can do to help you?" (my BF never resigned officially) and then some sister mishies dropped by several months ago. So the harrassment/contact doesn't always end. I have been resigned for 11 years now and my BF hasn't been to church since he was 16 or 17.

And the memebrs claim it's not a cult.

They hounded me off and on for over 25 years. Finally, I sprayed them with a garden hose and that worked.

I received more contact than I would tolerate even after being officially a resigned former member.

These mormons can be crackpots when it comes to harassment.

Did it really matter if I resigned or was excommunicated? Not really. The end result would be the same.

But after a quarter century of the LDS church telling me what to do, how to do it, who to do it with, what to wear while doing it, and what not to eat or drink while doing it, I wasn't about to let them dictate the terms of my leaving. Resigning was MY choice.

No offense, but technically, the church dictated the terms of your leaving by you following THEIR program for leaving.

I know people who have "officially" resigned and those who just don't go anymore. Individuals from both camps have had visits even years after. Other individuals from both camps haven't had any contact after years of not going. The mormon world is small, if wind of a former mormon gets around, someone is bound to pick up the scent and show up.

I haven't officially resigned. I did just like the OP said, walked away and don't attend. I still get an occasional visit, but if I don't mind the person visiting, we can have a respectful conversation. If I don't want to, we don't. The big difference between now and when I was a mormon, it is on my terms. I've never had to threaten anyone to not contact me.

During one visit, however, I did request to be put on the no contact list. The person told me that they didn't have one. So I got a piece of paper, wrote "No Contact List" on the top and wrote my name on the first line. I gave it to the visitor and said, "Now you do". Never heard from him again.

I haven't felt the need (yet) to "formally" resign. I don't go and I don't call myself mormon. Maybe this will change in the future, but for now, I have no worries.

No offense taken, and I can see where you're coming from. My options were limited by choices my parents made to raise me in the church, so no matter what I either had to stay a part of their organization forever (on their terms) or officially sever ties (on their terms).

I thought other posters had taken care of the "why don't you just stop going?" question, but not a lot had answered the "what harm does excommunication do?" question. That's the one I was addressing.

Cheers!

But it certainly lets other people know--- family for example, when your name disappears as a parent or child on THEIR member record that you mean it, and that you're not coming back.

Some look at it as simply completing the paperwork, as in cancelling membership in the Columbia Record Club, or a credit card. We follow their rules to do those things.

"I don't want to follow their rules so I'm going to be visited by them for the rest of my life." Ahh... not sure I buy that. Many want to make the statement, finish it up, and move on. Others don't mind the visits. To each his/her own.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2012 08:08PM by jpt.

those who asked to be on it would be following their rules.

Its just hard to explain to folks who haven't been through the cult experience.

Please feel free to ask whatever questions you have.

Timothy

I hadn't attended any meetings in about 8-9 years. I had moved three times, gotten married and changed my last name. Still they appeared unannounced at our door and asked for me by my maiden name. And then got all frumpy when I told them flat out I'm not interested. Like, hadn't they realized that during all those years? The church "wards" are all in the phone book, everybody who's not illiterate can find the nearest building in case they are interested. The visit made me feel sick, and I wasn't even that badly damaged by the cult as many others here.

I have actually obtained success with simply not believing, yet appearing to care a little. I have lived in the same ward (congregation) for many years and the leaders all know I am incorrigable, not willing to take callings or pay tithing. It's simply reached a level of mutual toleration.

I'm an enigma to many of them, I'm sure. I am friendly and open toward them, yet obviously not one of them.

I even attend part of the time and assist my wife in her callings, and do some practical volunteering like helping with scouts or working at the cannery. I see no need to resign. The COJCOLDS is what it is, and I hang around it because of my respect for my wife's right to believe it if she wants, and the fact that it's part of my heritage. I am on pleasant terms with members I know, even though most of them are puzzled about me. My only fear is that some hot-shot bishop will get called who finds it necessary to challenge me. Woe be unto that man, for he shall receive an earful!

If I ever moved away and then had door-knockers, I'd smilngly invite them in, sit them down and go get beers or cocktails for all of us! That would probably solve the issue.

It depends on the situation. I walked out of my Bishops office over four years ago after telling him the church couldn't possibly be true and Jesus Christ doesn't make sense. Since then, I've had absolutely zero contact.

There is a Mormon scripture, and I'm not sure where it is right now, that says if you can return some lost sheep to the fold, that righteous act would make up for a multitude of sins. I think the mormons just are trying to get a pat on the back for being the one who reactivates some poor misguided lost soul. There are so many faith promoting fables in tscc. Such as, the one about the home teacher who wouldn't take no for an answer, and came faithfully every month and reactivated a whole family. They think that they can be the one to lead you back, and that will make up for a multitude of sins.

How it is done in other churches,
How to stop being a Presbyterian:

Stop going to church (or change churches)
After a few months, you will get a phone call or letter asking you why you stopped going. If you say you are no longer interested, your name will be removed from the membership list. If you are attending another church, your name will be removed from the membership list, and when you decide to join another church, a letter will be sent transferring your membership.

If you don't respond to the phone call/letter, you will continue to be contacted (by phone or letter) on a quarterly-yearly basis.

Presbyterian churches pay a "per capita" fee to the denomination, of about $25 per member. It's to the church's benefit to get rid of the "dead wood" on the membership rolls.

There are a handful of people who don't want to give up their membership for old times sake, and/or they want to keep getting the newsletter.

Bottom line, Presbyterians won't show up at your door unless you invite them.