During the worst of the recession, my husband and I requested a small amount of financial help. And we WERE helped for a month or so.

I brought my bills to my Bishop and requested a meeting with him to go over them. He handed them back to me and said, "We can't give you any more help."

I was a bit shocked, since I didn't want just financial help, I wanted to speak with my "spiritual leader" and maybe pray with him and get some advice.

So, I responded with the ever-so-succinct, "Huh? You can't help me? What do you mean?"

"The Stake is in the Red and we can't help anyone else financially, if we think they can just help themselves." My husband is currently working THREE jobs to pay my medical bills, so it's not like we were just trying to live off the church.

Now, this is a VERY affluent area and people obviously are not tithing the way the Church says we should (on the gross). Even though I have horrible health insurance, was diagnosed with a terminal disease (2 more years "if I'm lucky") AND the Bishop knew all this...they had no help, neither financial nor spiritual, for me.

I have not been back for over a year and NO ONE has contacted me. No one. Not one missionary, home teacher, visiting teacher (who used to be a VERY close friend) or local leader. Since I'm always hearing about how the Church hunts you down until your dying day, I'm beginning to feel like the ugly girl (oh, sorry, the "sweet spirit") at a dance.

I have since joined another demonination and am VERY spiritually happy, although my friendship support base at the Ward disappeared and it breaks my heart.

I have NEVER heard the Church admit that ANY part of it was losing money...so it must be widespread and BAD.

Stop tithing...now. They can build a mall but not help their members.

You really should take a news clipping of the opening of the mall and sit down and ask your Bishop how come the Church has money for City Creek but not for helping the poor and the needy.

Exactly!

He's a Cambodian-American, but his English is not good. He served as the first counsellor in his branch for many years, but when he hurt his back and lost his job he couldn't get any help from the stake. He was told that there was some day-old bread in the kitchen he could have. They moved in with us shortly thereafter. The Church wanted nothing to do with them until my wife and I left the Church. Then they started using my in-laws as an excuse to come into our home, because my in-laws didn't know how to tell them no.

I was the head of the household, and the local bishop would not listen to me when I told him that he could not visit. I wish we'd thought to ask for money.

If you want to get rid of pests then I'd like to suggest that you INVITE them to come over so you can get them started on the road to fabulous wealth by joining your Amway, NuSkin, Mary Kay, etc. downlines :) And remember to use the Commitment Pattern :) "Brother Pest, will you commit yourself to 15 hours per week on building up your Amway downline and my Amway downline under my guidance." The first thing that sweet home teacher would need to do is to pay for your signup fee and his own as your first downliner. And naturally each month's visit would start off with him first reporting back to you on each new family he's got committed to be signed up for your direct downline. It's not your job to grow the downline. That's the home teacher's job. Your job is to spend the residual income that supposedly starts flowing in :) Well I don't know much about all this as I don't do MLM(s) and I don't have time to read up on the specifics. But if I was going to church I'd probably spend some time during my HP group meeting studying up on the ins/outs of Amway and NuSkin so I could make sure my Home Teacher dear Brother Pest could do his busywork details to make me rich and also to help ensure I'm well-prepared to constantly give a good Amway/NuSkin sales pitch to all the Ward/Stake members to help ensure they will leave me alone forever more as I do believe that MLM(s) are a very effective tool out there to get rid of all our "friends" :)

Where the hell does all the money go?

That's so wealthy congregations can subsidize poor ones, usually in other countries. Funny how a predominantly conservative/capitalist membership are in a church practicing classical wealth redistribution socialism. And yet the church gives it's self-sufficiency, pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps lecture when you go to them about your needs. Because, gee, you can't run an outrageously profitable company if you're always paying out some of that money you take in -- money they get just by demanding it.

But the church does SOOOOOO much good! (eyes rolling)

The church has plenty of money but they don't give much of it back to the stakes and wards after they receive all the tithes & offerings. That's why the bishops have to be so stingy with those in need.

I would think helping a terminally ill member of the ward would be more important than building a $5 billion great and spacious mall with luxury condos & department stores...but that's just me. The profits & apostles have a different view apparently.

That is terrible to have to go through. I hope that you can stay strong.

Marshall

Never thought of that - a way to get rid of pesky LD$ reps who won't leave you alone: ask for financial help.

But as with you, I have never been approached by so much as one single person from the LD$ church, in an effort to get me back.

You'd think they might have at least called, to ask me if I wanted to pay some tithing.

I'll bet that the amount of money the stake receives is about 500% of what it needs for local needs, and sends 80-90% back to Salt Lake.

In normal churches, the local congregation comes first. In a religious-themed corporation, the locals are just franchises who are there to support the company.

The money for this kind of help comes strictly from fast offerings. There is no overlap whatsoever with tithing money. If a stake starts handing out more charity money than it is sending to Salt Lake (in fast offerings) then it usually clamps down. Even the rich people aren't likely to spend more than $50 a month on fast offerings, if that.

That's what's so corrupt about LDS Inc. Unlike other churches, they REQUIRE/DEMAND 10% from its members, sending it to SLC headquarters for God know what, however this does NOT go to helping the needy. The church gets RICH from the 10%. The members, after already giving 10%, and trying to give to other funds like the missionary fund, struggle to give any more, which is why the fast offerings are so paltry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2012 02:18PM by Susan I/S.

Ummm... no.

The Church has never released it's financials. I know they like to tell people that that is how they use the money, and I used to agree with that, even after I left. But, I no longer think that's the case.

They even changed the tithing slips to accommodate some flexibility. They now have a disclaimer, printed on every tithing slip, stating something to the effect of "We'll try super hard to use the money as you list it, but really once you hand it over, we'll do what we want."

And, any church that can spend as much money, not even counting the mall they built, just thinking about the "church" side of the corp, they should be able to handle helping out the families that are members and are in real need. I don't know the original poster, but assuming what they say is true, I'd say they could use a little support.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2012 05:10PM by Finally Free!.

You're right, of course, it's from fast offerings and not from tithing. Ironically, I just received my "welcome" pack from my new parish (I'm ex-mo) and they sent along a "sacrificial giving" page. (Hey, at least they know it's hard on you!) They believe that HALF of your tithing goes to the parish and half to other causes. They recommend at least 6%, but are careful to make sure you stay within your budgets! And I don't have to have a meeting where I look ashamed that I didn't work outside the home this year, so I've no more to give. Poor as we are, we've already "tithed" to the new church.

I had had a LOT of help from the church members in the past. Some of our furniture (including our mattress!LOL) were given to us, AND we had had food from the storehouse in the past, so I never felt like the odd child out. I think it was just the shock of hearing that the Stake was in the Red, and that they wouldn't even help feed us!) when they're always bragging about the "perfect" welfare system.

I'd say that is a lie. The wards and stakes collect a lot of money in tithing and fast offerings. The fast offerings is what is use to provide financial help to members. I've been in meetings where we are told that that our ward/stake is giving out more money of what it is receiving in fast offerings. When bishops allow this then extra money for fast offerings must come from other wards in the stake and then from SLC. Of course in the lds priesthood leadership nobody wants to look bad or get in trouble for not being self-sufficient.

Tithing goes to SLC for the building of the Mormon enterprises.

In places like latin America there is no welfare program like there is in North America. Once a bishop who had been born in Colombia told me 'I wish there were assistance like this in my country, there are so many members in need', but there wasn't. There is no Deseret Industries or bishop's storehouse. I think that the assistance over there is so limited because there are way more people in need of food or financial help that it would drain the church funds.

The church is selective in their assistance. From what I've seen in the wards I've been in and what I've read here, it depends on the Bishop, on the ward and on who you are.

I'm sorry that they have been so hurtful, unfortunately your story is not unique. If you think about it, you probably gave them way more tithing in one year of what they would help in your time of need, never mind most people pay for many years.

I'm glad you've found comfort in another church.

+100

My wife is struggling with ulcerative colitis, but it's by no means terminal (that I'm aware of). It's put a strain on our finances and even our relationship at times due to the stress. I can't imagine facing what you're dealing with.

Don't feel like the ugly girl - feel like the lucky girl. Sometimes, the piddly little bit of assistance they might offer just isn't worth the cost.

Good luck and please keep in touch with us on the board. We may not be able to offer financial help but we can do our best to offer 'spirchul help in greatest exmo fashion.

Nuff said.

Remember when Mary Ellen Smoot (1997-2002) became general RS president ?

Her stated goal at the time was "to keep the sisters out of the malls".

Now here we are, a scant 15 years later, and the old boys have built a $5 billion dollar mall with your tithing money.

Just goes to show that you can't believe anything they say.
Much less put your money into their coffers.

That is such bull. I gave them a ton of money, and that was when I worked at freaking McDonalds. They could have totally afforded to help

This irks me.

First, it is fast offerings, not tithing, that determine how much money the ward/stake has for helping people with things like bills, etc. (Minor point, but stick with me.)

Second, all the money given in fast offerings stays in the ward budget until used or until it caps a certain dollar amount. If you exceed the cap, then most of it gets transferred to SLC. (Note that ALL tithing funds go directly to SLC the Monday after they are collected. None of that stays in your ward.)

Third, a stake runs a deficit (in the red), it may request funds from SLC.

BUT, stake presidents are under a LOT of pressure to send fast offering funds to SLC, as a sign of how faithful their stake is.

AND, although it is right in the handbook, there is a tremendous amount of pressure for the stake president to NOT ever request funds from SLC.

So, when you bishop says, "We don't have any money to help people" he is full of shit and is throwing you under the bus so that his stake president won't look bad to the Area Authority Seventy over your stake.

This is another place where the church says one thing and does another -- we "take care of our own", we "provide for the needy" but in reality we build f-ing malls instead.

I have a cousin who has 5 kids from two different dads. She has been excommunicated twice. She is now back in the "fold" and the church helped her build (and paid for) the current house she lives in. They also supported her during her last 2 pregnancies while her husband was in prison finishing his sentence for domestic violence (against her.) ???

Apparently there is no rhyme or reason to who gets what help and how much. And this is help she received within the past 1-3 years when things are supposedly "tight" financially. I guess it depends on who you know and where you live (she's in Utah with TBM parents who just served a mission in Africa.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2012 07:43PM by Tupperwhere.

Official policy:

The following guidelines will help the bishop provide appropriate welfare "assistance.

Draw upon the Lord's Storehouse. The Lord's storehouse includes the time, talents, skills, compassion, consecrated materials, and financial resources of faithful Church members. The bishop is the Lord's agent in using these resources to assist the poor and needy (see D&C 42:34). As he uses these resources to care for the needy in the Lord's way, both givers and receivers are blessed (see D&C 104:16; Acts 20:35).
1. Fast offerings. Fast offerings are a primary resource of the Lord's storehouse. The bishop uses fast offerings to provide necessities to needy members. With these funds the bishop may provide food, clothing, shelter, medical assistance, or other life-sustaining aid. It is preferred that the bishop give members commodities rather than cash. If necessary, he may buy the goods with fast offerings. Members then can use their own cash to pay their obligations.
If members do not have cash to pay all of their immediate and essential obligations, the bishop normally makes payments directly to the provider of the goods or services. In some circumstances the bishop may give cash directly to reliable, faithful members who are being assisted. They can use the cash to pay their obligations or make necessary purchases. The bishop may not loan fast offerings to members, and members are not required to repay welfare assistance that they receive from the Church. When members are again in a position to do.."

"Can't give anymore help" is not an option of the official policy.

Your story is so sad. I am aware of others with similar stories. This is another example of a church that is a fraud. If there is a Christ and he had a true church, this would not be the approach taken. Love, concern, and a helping hand would always dominate any concern for the financial position of the stake and ward. This church is so wealthy and yet this is how they treat members.

I can tell you that Bishops and SP have tremendous pressures from SLC to balance the budget, to improve the financial positions of the ward and stake, etc. Money and wealth positions seem to have become the focus of the church at the highest levels. Malls can be built but members in very tough situations cannot be helped. A moment cannot be taken to follow up and see if members are doing well? It is a fraud

This wouldn't be in N. Virginia, would it? Stake is having a special meeting in a couple weeks and I am pretty sure its gonna be about "self-sufficiency", i.e money.