Posted by:
-procyon-
(
)
Date: June 13, 2012 05:28PM
Hi,
I'm new to atheism. My first post to this board a few days ago was "Have questions. Need answers."
I've told just a few people in that church that I'm finished with the beliefs. I'm now in conversation with a pretty stubborn missionary via text message after telling them too. (Wish I hadn't bothered now, but nevermind!)
I'll post the messages as they come in. (Messages are verbatim - all our spelling and grammar errors included! The world of SMS, hey? :+) )
===
Convo beings...
Me: Y'know, I'm genuinely curious. And what puzzles me is how an entire faith system sprang up on the word of a 14 year old child.
Missionary: It did not. The answer is found in The Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:3-5. It is because of the Holy Ghost answers our prayer.
Me:Holy Ghost is a very unsatisyfing answer. Where is the evidence one exists? or that the Book of Mormon is genuine? I've never seen any.
Missionary: Yes, it does take Faith in Jesus Christ. Could you have written a book of 500 pages in 60 days? Joseph Smith did not write it, he read it useing translators.
Me: Faith. It reminds me of asking a bank for a massive faith-based loan, i.e. no collateral, personal details given verbally, and most importantly, I'll pay it back after death, with perpetual interest and untold amounts of magical bells & whistles (heaven, eternal life, worship of some man, etc etc etc). What do you think the banker would say to such terms?
Me: It's taken me a while to snap out of it and have a critical look at the whole thing.
Me: There are so many claims that make up the foundation that, when you look at them, are nothing more than the claims of some 19th Century and Bronze Age people that we're expected to believe without question or substance.
Missionary: Please write all your questions down and we will meet to talk about them. Where are these questions coming from and what caused you to start to dought? When can we meet?
Me: As I said, I'm curious about all sorts of things, not least that which has been part of my life. And these doubts and questions have bubbled in me since my early teens.
Me: I love learning and I love books too. And since looking at the other side of the argument for-and-against religion in general, I find the atheists and scientists arguments far stronger than the religious side. Overwhelmingly so.
Me: It just can't be dismissed.
Me: No one at church ever talked (out loud) about the veracity of all the claims.
Me: I'm just beginning in the study of this, but the points against religion are so compelling when I hear them that I can't class myself as LDS or Christian anymore.
Missionary: Have you Faith in Christ? Do you believe He is the Savior of the world? Do you beleive that prayers are answer?
Me: No to all 3.
Missionary: Would you like to meet with us and have the missionary lessons? they address all these doughts you have.
Me: I've seen the missionary flipchart lessons. I'm not at all new to them, unless they've been altered.
Me: I don't wish to either. It's giving me an increasing feeling of peace, freedom and joy that I've never felt in the church.
Missionary: Have you truely and humble prayed truely wanting an answer? Have you ever talked with your dad about hox you feel?
Me: No, he's too religious to listen to it. I strongly feel theism to be false.
Missionary: What are your sources? Religion can not be proven scientifly
Me: I refer you to several excellent authors:
Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, Stephen Hawking, to name a few.
Missionary: These are all unbeleivers. Try reading some true beleivers books.
Me: Of course they're unbelievers. Look, most believer books will give answers skewed in their favour, without hard evidence. Whereas the unbelievers I cited (have) given their side, with substantial answers.
Missionary: Have you ever read the Bible or Book of Mormon? I mean truely read them?
Me: Not from end to end. Just lots of different verses and chapters over the years. I find it a messy, barely readable book, full of apocrypha.
Missionary: Then you have not read them to find out if they are the word of God. You have never put Moronis promise found in Moroni 10:3-5.
Missionary: Well what do you think the Bible is?
Me: Bible? Read by many, taken literally by many, used to justify wars, racism, bigotry, murder, slavery, cruelty to women and children, a tool of oppression and fear etc.
Me: It's an immoral book, and a cause of much misery, conflict, suffering and fundamentalism that continues today. The Quran is no better. A plagiarized version of the Bible.
Missionary: You are not really seeking to know the truth are you?
Me: Not in the BoM, as I no longer believe there is much, if any, substance to the book.
Missionary: Well how do you know that any of the people in the past history are real?
Me: Well for many historical figures, yes that's true, many are legends in the mists of time. And for others, records exist in all sorts of texts and accounts.
Me: King Arthur and his knights of the round table, for instance. Their lives are a thing of legend now.
Missionary: But they were real people
Missionary: Do you think a boy with forth grade ed (Smith) could have ever written the Bof M?
Missionary: Try humble reading the BofM from cover to cover truely seeking to KN0W if it is TRUE. WE HAVE AND TESTIFY IT IS
Me: Testifying doesn't add truth value.
Missionary: What does?
Missionary: It is plan that satan has come into your life are truely going to let gim win?
Missionary: Must say good night. Talk more tomorrow. Good night
Me: Ni night!
Missionary: You have not seen any evedence because you did not want too
Me: I think religious and non-religious sides define evidence very differently.
====
Convo ends.
Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2012 09:24PM by procyon.