Firstly, I have the greatest respect for all the contributors to MormonThink and the fantastic work they have done to publish the truth about Church doctrine and history. Contrast this with the lies promulgated by FAIR and the Mormon Church (Jeff Holland and Gordon Hinckley as prime examples).

How can the self proclaimed one and only TRUE Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints threaten to excommunicate someone for telling the truth? Surely they should be taking action against FAIR, as well as Elder Jeffrey R. Holland and others.

The reality is the Church is ‘the enemy of truth’ as justified by President Packer (not all history is helpful) and Elder Oaks (OK to lie for the Lord). The Church was founded on a lie and has perpetuated many of the lies in addition to creating new lies.

We know that bullies are usually cowards. They are going after people who have something to lose – their families and friends. Well, let them try me for size. They have already taken away my family and friends. The new family and friends I have cannot be intimidated or brainwashed by them. So I have nothing to lose.

David recently wrote some articles about the Church and also Mitt Romney. Within days the ‘Gestapo’ interrogated him and issued him with a summons to a disciplinary council (aka ‘court’). Nearly 5 years ago I published an account of the Second Anointing which they would have been aware of within 24 hours. No communication nor threat of any action directed at me. This year I posted correspondence between Elder Holland and myself in which, among other issues, I called him out on deliberate lies he had told. I also released a podcast I did for John Dehlin which went viral. Still no communication nor threat.

I have also published an ebook on “Romneys Religion” The Man who would be God outlining the fact that Mitt Romney, as a devout Mormon, believes he will become a polygamous God. It also details many of the highly offensive teachings of the Church, all backed up by the Church’s own scriptures. A short animated video will soon be released on youtube.

So, David (praise and all credit to him) publishes a few articles from September 11th to 15th and he is interrogated on the 16th and summoned to a court (apologies for the old terminology but it is still more polite than ‘kangaroo court’) on September 30th. Never, in all my church experience have I know such action to be taken so quickly. Why, what is the urgency? Where is the loving concern for saving families? Oh, it’s obviously nothing to do with that, only about protecting the Church or Mitt Romney.

Why such speed with him, yet no action against me? I, like David, have done nothing but publish the truth. If he is excommunicated there will be an outcry that the Church will sorely regret.

In summary I have published the following :-
1. An account of my Second Anointing http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon508.htm
2. My correspondence with Elder Holland regarding the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Letter-to-Elder-Holland-Book-of-Mormon and http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Reply-from-Elder-Holland-Mormon-Apostle-to-my-letter
3. Podcast with John Dehlin regarding my conversion story, service in the Church, my second anointing, finding out the Church was not true, correspondence with Elder Holland and reasons I could not be a ‘New Order Mormon’ as advised http://www.postmormon.org/uploads/TomPhillips-Unedited.mp3
4. Post of 19 facts that members of the Church refuse to discuss http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/34539/
5. Ebook published on Kindle entitled “Romneys Religion” The Man who would be God. Includes details of polygamous gods and other highly offensive teachings of the Church substantiated from their own scriptures. http://www.amazon.com/kindle/dp/B00902Z1ZS/ref=rdr_kindle_ext_eos_detail
6. A short animated video has been produced on Mitt Romney – The Man who would be God which will shortly go public on youtube. Link will be posted when live.

Tom Phillips
(Elder Holland has my address, email and phone number)

I'd like to get some too.

It was terribly humiliating to find out that my blog was discussed at the Church Office Building and deemed not to be threatening.

What does a guy have to do to get exed? :-)

Good lord, those Danites sure have gotten fat and lazy.

.........or more "Christlike".....

If they keep ignoring my resignation letter any longer, I am going to resend it along with the words, "I am forbiddencokedrinker over at RFM."

The difference could be that David started going back to church, and thus tried to identify himself as a mormon at least in appearance, whereas you have distanced yourself from the religion. They wouldn't care about kicking someone out who is already for all intents and purposes out.

I suppose this means I could be in danger of a disciplinary council, since I still attend church and created the Temple Name Oracle. Then again, it's quite possible they have no idea who I am.

I've thought about the oracle too and wondered if/when they would do something. I guess both of these things, the second anointing and the temple oracle are exposing what is supposed to be most sacred. If god can't be mocked why haven't they done something about it?

Both things are really good to get out there. Some mockery goes a long way to helping people realize just how ridiculous their beliefs are.

and honestly Tom I think they don't want anyone else knowing your story. When a person at yer level bails out it gets people's attention. Right now you are only known to disaffected and Internet Mormons. They likely would rather have the run of the mill Chapel Mormon never know who you are and that you no longer believe.

Fascinating. This is the way it strikes me.

David is more dangerous than you because he makes it look like all is not well in Zion, while they feel like they can manage you by pegging you as the bitter apostate, rendering your influence to be sour grapes.

They want Mitt in bad. Worse than any of us could imagine. It isn't the American constitution that is hanging by a string and needs to be saved by Mitt, it is the church itself that is hanging by a string.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2012 03:43PM by blueorchid.

You answered your own question. You don't have anything else left to lose and they still do.

David's articles were dancing all over Mitt's entanglements with the church, and since Mitt is one of the biggest dicks, well it's apparent you gotta kick the organization right in the nuts.

Any progress communicating your story to John Sweeney of BBC (who produced "The Mormon Candidate")?

I think everyone is right--the less the rank and file know about you and your experience, the better (for the Church). Pursuing action against you with any aggression would have the potential for too much publicity etc. They are in damage control with you--don't ask, don't tell etc. etc.

Hence my belief that if you continue to press buttons without stirring up too much trouble, they will simply leave you alone. You are going to have to hit them where it hurts and make some serious waves.

Where does it hurt the Church most?

Anything concerning Mitt Romney, for one, and money, for two. I think that at this point, Mitt Romney is priority #1. Money will takes its place again in a few months regardless of the outcome in Nov. You also have to present a serious threat to existing Church membership. I'm going to think about how you can do this better/more effectively. Honestly, you are doing a lot already (but I think much of it is preaching to the choir, I'm afraid--members probably don't know much about you b/c they are too afraid of the places your story can be found etc.).

A good scenario would be for them to be publicly defending their most reprehensible secrets (JS's plolygamy, historical and scientific inconsistencies, changing doctrine and temple ordinances, blacks and the priesthoods, etc.)--how can we get them on the public defense with respect to these issues?

Frankly, after watching Mormon Candidate, I'm surprised the Church isn't under more of a media microscope in the states. The Church came across as secretive, cultish, etc. (particularly with respect to the Strengthening Church Membership Committee issues). Is it b/c media is in their pocket? Probably...

Shall we raise funds for a superbowl ad next year? :)


Does this make sense? Any ideas, folks?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2012 03:58PM by citizen.

Would welcome any advice or help citizen. I agree this is the moment with Mitt and, at present, I am more interested in getting the offensive stuff out to non-Mormons. Those who will be voting in November need to know Mitt's real beliefs.

However, my biggest guns will be used on the lawsuit I am preparing.

Tom

Tom, I have noticed that action is taken only if such action will not bring more attention to the offender's message.

This is the main difference between you and Mormonthink. If they were to come after you, a whole lot of people who didn't know anything about you, the second anointing, the shunning, tithing settlement, etc, would learn about them.

Mormonthink, on the other hand, like RfM is highly trafficked and very successful. Unlike RfM, which is easily dismissed as a bunch of angry haters, Mormonthink presents reasoned arguments and cannot be barred by the church because it is not apostate. They can keep Mormons away from the rest of the Mormon truth movement by labeling us and commanding that we be shunned.

If you were to appear on The Daily Show with your book, or were to be interviewed by Bill Maher, or better yet, Anderson Cooper, you would have an envelope on your porch by nightfall.

Namaste

Anagrammy

Anointed One can wreak unbelievable damage. The mormon church is afraid, imo.

Humm...why would they do what they are doing?

Ex the Mormon Think guy, leave Tom alone...hummm....

OK, here goes.

The church is a business and there are "threats" out there to the business.

Tom is a threat, we've heard what he has to say. We know he was a SP, bishop, hob-knobbed with Elder Holland, Hillam, etc. A big shot, in other words.

The Mormon Think guy is a peon. Nobody knows who he is, but people know about Mormon Think and it is a pretty serious threat to the business. It has good articles, tries to position itself within the church boundaries, but asks tough questions.

Simple. They think they have a shot at eliminating Mormon Think by threatening to ex the editors. It may work. They may back down. A threat to the business is eliminated and nobody is going to care what happens to this guy. He is unknown, there won't be much of a PR impact to ex him or intimidate him.

Tom would be a PR disaster to ex. The press would be much more likely to pick it up, plus they figure "he has had his say" and "what else can he say now?" He has done his damage. Mormon Think could be a source of continuing damage.

The moral of the story is that the peons are the ones who will be shot first...

thingsithink, so how do we help him do it?

I'm going to think on it and get back to you, Tom.

If there is any way to get the U.S. media involved, that seems to be the ticket.

Benson made an offer to get stories out. I personally can't imagine a more compelling story than Anointed One's.

There is a lot of talk about doing something, but someone has to take the lead, have a plan, and attempt to execute it. I'd hope Benson and Anointed One are working on something now. If there is a time that 50-100 people making some calls, emails, etc. to draw some attention, I'd imagine that resource is here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2012 04:17PM by thingsithink.

because the wolves are not heroes.

the wolf pack does not sit around thinking about how great it would be to take down the biggest meanest strongest bull elk in the herd, because such a thing might also include getting kicked in the face & losing a bunch of teeth. The wolf pack thinks about getting an easy meal. The wolf pack gets hungry and then it goes after the newly born, the weak, the sick, the infirmed, the aged, the vulnerable.

"Why such speed with him, yet no action against me? I, like David, have done nothing but publish the truth. If he is excommunicated there will be an outcry that the Church will sorely regret."

Are you still in the church? I thought you left the church...hence they can't do anything to you can they?

The other guy still is and wants to be mormon?? If so, they hold much more power over a member than a nonmember

Well if you, Anointed One, were a member in my ward, the bishop would have gladly called you to a court of love...

Mitt is the Golden boy.

Church history is the fly in the soup.

They want everyone in the country to adore Mitt, and to know nothing of church history. They want to simultaneously maintain and grow their tithe paying membership.

Mormon Think is a big threat to every one of those goals. It's as simple as that.

Obviously MT is doing more damage than the church can tolerate. They have a 'member' they can go after, so they are going to. They view him as a bug to be squashed. That's all it is to them. They have evaluated what the fallout might be for squashing the bug, and decided that he's inconsequential.

I think they have underestimated the tenacity of the formerly mormon crowd. They have gotten away with this type of behavior in the past. This, however, is not the past. It is now.

NOW we have an interested outside media. Mitt may also be our golden boy. It seems as if this is turning into a tug of war. Mormon leadership tugging against the exmo's. Exmo's who have a bone to pick. The church has taken much from many of us. We don't want to give them any more. For many of us there is nothing left to take. We have Nothing to lose. We have much to gain. The truth will set many many members free. Some of those members may be our family.

Mormon Think and the Mormon hierarchy have arrived at a place where a line has been drawn in the sand. The bullies against their victims. Both are gathering their backers to beef up their team. The one who gets the national media will most likely be the one who will be able to stand their ground.

Of all people, the Mormon church should know that displacing a leader does not make the opposition go away. In fact it will most likely make it grow stronger. Their leader is currently impotent. There is nobody to stand up and take the lead. They are frantic. Thrashing at anything they think might make a difference. They don't realize that lying to generations of members has now come full circle. It's time to stand up and say ENOUGH!

Tom, email me - still need to finish your page.

I was awaiting their threats, but none came my way and I started using my real name about a month before I resigned. Maybe 'cause I'm in Alberta, and not Utah or Idaho?? Hmmmmmmm....

Ron Burr

You have all made some excellents points. And, Tom, I have never heard anything more compelling than your interview with John Dehlin. I just have one point to add. If this truly is all about Mitt, then Tom, being from outside the US, may not present quite the same threat, in their eyes. Also, I won't go into detail, but I think David's blog had something to do with it because he had some very specific information in there.

I know some details about the matter and since this is now has become a big splash on RfM through a variety of threads, I hope to be able to (re)post it here, with identities protected as necessary.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2012 05:33PM by steve benson.

Don't worry I'm not seeking attention, I am just miffed at their treatment of the MT guys. They have their reasons for wanting to stay in the church so why should they be ex'd for telling the truth?

Their website is hugely popular - it has been a great influence for good - and they have saved more souls than the church ever has. We may not fully uinderstand why they wish to stay members and be anonymous but, by being members, they have been able to attract visitors who would not go to other sites.

All cudous to them. I am merely pointing out the bully boy and cowardly tactics of the church. They should try picking on someone who can fight back.

Tom

Attention seeking?

Who are more attention seeking that WAVE WAVE "Look! Look! I can tapdance AND I am multi-tasking by also BEING A MORMON!


Anagrammy

No man can fall when he stands up for truth. You have stood valiantly and the church knows you are not afraid of them. Mormonthinker has already capitulated by removing some posts. Due to family, the church has him by the balls. Hopefully he'll be honest with himself and stand up for what is right.

You can look in the mirror and be proud and the church knows it. It fears those that aren't scared of them.

Tom, no one would ever accuse you of attention seeking! That is just crazy!

Thank you Mormonthink for shining a floodbank of light on the fraud of Joseph Smith.

Excellent informative website, kudos to all involved in MT

They have no reason to go after you because they have already taken everything they could take from you. I don't remember if you resigned yet or not but even if you haven't they know that being excommunicated at this point would not mean anything to you. The Mormon Think people still have a lot to lose. If the local leaders are trying to protect Romney this is probably the worst way to go about it. I doubt his blog posts would have gotten that much attention outside of ex-mormon circles. Now if he can play it right he could really embarass the church and Romney in a key swing state. It sounds like he isn't sure if he wants to do that or not but I really hope he does. Let everyone see what Romney's church does to people who just publish factual information on the internet.