|Subject:||My Second Anointing experience....now I am a son of perdition|
|Date:||Jan 21, 2008 [updated May, 2012]|
|Exmormon.org note:||We believe the following to be an accurate account. It is
impossible to confirm all the facts due to the secrecy of the Mormon Church
in regards to this ordinance.
The author has also written an excellent summary of the Book of Mormon: Holland - Book of Mormon
|My Second Anointing Experience
There already exist sources of details of the second anointing and I probably will not add to that body of knowledge. However, I am posting this account to confirm the ordinance does actually take place currently, as I have received the ordinance, and how it is currently performed.
I state the names of the Apostle and Seventy involved as well as the date and actual temple so that the credibility cannot be questioned. I have not mentioned my own name as I wish the emphasis to be on the topic of the ordinance itself. It is not to protect my anonymity from the church, as the First Presidency will be able to identify me from this account within minutes, if not immediately.
The day itself – what happened
Asked to nominate others
In April 2002 Elder Harold G. Hillam of the First Quorum of Seventy, as President of the Europe West Area, called me into his office. He said he was extending to me and my wife (she was not present), on behalf of President Hinckley, an invitation to receive a “special blessing” in the Preston England Temple. He asked whether I had heard of the “second endowment” to which I replied no. I later told him that I had heard of it, but was so stunned by his invitation my mind went blank regarding the matter.
He told me very few people receive this blessing and it must be kept secret. He said if the general membership knew about it there would be problems. More would want to receive the ordinance than the apostles have time to accommodate and members would wonder why “so and so” had received it but they had not. I must not even tell my children. He said I should just tell them that their mother and I were going away for the day or weekend. He recommended I read all that Elder Bruce R. McConkie had written on the subject of “making your calling and election sure”.
Elder Hillam promised me it would be a “life changing” experience. He said the ordinance was performed in Joseph Smith’s time but had been discontinued during President David O. McKay’s time. This resulted in only 2 of the then apostles, Harold B. Lee and Spencer W. Kimball, having had this ordinance on the death of President Joseph Fielding Smith. It was therefore re-introduced and is still practiced today. (I have seen no source that quotes this suspension of the ordinance, only Elder Hillam’s word).
We were to be at the Preston England Temple on Sunday 19th May 2002 where Elder M. Russell Ballard, of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, would perform the ordinance. We should have our temple recommends and our temple robes etc. with us.
I went home and told my wife. She accepted it quite calmly. I reflected on my own life and personal worthiness. I read all that Elder McConkie had written on the subject and looked forward to the day with excitement. Basically, Elder McConkie wrote that , during the first endowment you are given certain blessings to become a king and a priest (queen and priestess) to the most high God, and these blessings are conditional on you remaining worthy of them. With the second endowment, the conditions are removed as you have already proven your faithfulness and entitlement to the blessings. Therefore, you are sealed up to the highest degree of the celestial kingdom unconditionally. Any sins committed afterward may render you liable to the “buffetings in the flesh” but they will not prevent you from attaining your exaltation. The only sin that is unpardonable is denying the Holy Ghost (or in some passages the shedding of innocent blood).
I had never expected this to happen to me. I assumed I would be judged in the next life, not have that judgment made in this life. It meant I and my wife would be guaranteed a celestial glory unless we committed the “unpardonable sin” which seemed to be unthinkable at the time. We had made it, the Lord, through his prophet, had informed us we were worthy of this high exaltation. I never thought it would be done in this way. I had assumed that, if anyone did deserve to have their calling and election made sure, the Lord would appear to them Himself. Like most members of the church I assumed all the apostles had made sure their calling and election and many of the other General Authorities of the church.
I felt a power helping me be a better person and more dedicated to the church.
I telephoned the temple to book accommodation for my wife and myself on Saturday 18th May so that we could make the most of the experience. I did not like lying to my family and friends as to our whereabouts that weekend. I did not feel comfortable as it was dishonest but I was instructed not to disclose what was happening. To tell people you will be at the temple on a Sunday, when supposedly all temples are closed, would raise further questions. I therefore told my children we were going to the temple for the weekend and would be attending a special meeting with Elder Ballard and the Area President on Sunday. This was not too unusual for my children to accept as I regularly attended Area Presidency meetings and had been assisting these same brethren the day before at a training session for stake presidents. Also, it was as truthful as I considered I could be while still keeping the second anointing secret.
On Saturday 18th May 2002, after Priesthood Leadership Training by Elder Ballard in Birmingham England, my wife and I drove to the Preston England Temple. We were surprised and delighted to discover that we had been given a “bridal suite” as our accommodation. It added to the special occasion. While walking in the temple grounds in the early evening we unexpectedly met a member of our ward who had attended a family wedding that day. She asked us what we were doing at the temple on a Saturday evening. I quickly mentioned something about Area Presidency meetings (she knew of my calling at the time, that I worked closely with the Area Presidency) and changed the subject. Again, I did not feel comfortable “lying for the Lord”.
Anyway, my wife and I had a very pleasant evening preparing ourselves spiritually for our “life changing” experience.
At the Temple
Upon entering the temple we changed into our temple robes, met the other couples who were to receive the ordinance that day, and were led to an upper room that had been set apart for this purpose. I knew 3 of the other 4 couples. 2 of the husbands were former stake presidents and 1 was a mission president who had just completed his mission.
We were all seated in the room with Elder Ballard officiating, Elder Harold G. Hillam assisting, with Sister Carol Hillam, Elder Wayne S. Peterson and Sister Peterson as observers. A counselor in the temple presidency was also present. The temple president was absent because his wife was seriously ill in hospital.
Elder Ballard explained what would be happening. We were to have our feet washed and be anointed by him. He was acting under the direction of the Prophet, President Gordon B. Hinckley. We would then be allocated a sealing room for each couple to be alone and perform the second part of the ordinance. We would then all meet again with Elder Ballard in the celestial room.
The following is my best recollection of what happened in performing this ordinance. It has been nearly 6 years since it happened so I may well have omitted some things. I have briefly reviewed published accounts of the second anointing to jog my memory.
I. THE ORDINANCE OF THE WASHING OF THE FEET
I was beckoned to sit on a particular chair. Elder Ballard knelt and washed my feet, then dried them. This ordinance cleansed me from the blood and sins of this generation.
II. THE ORDINANCE OF SECOND ANOINTINGS -- Part One
Anointed & Ordained a King/Priest, Queen/Priestess
I was anointed with oil, on the top of my head, and then hands were laid upon my head, and I was ordained a king and a priest unto the Most High God, to rule and reign in the House of Israel forever. My head, brow, eyes, ears nose, lips etc. were anointed with oil and specific blessings were given related to knowing, understanding and speaking the truth. This ordinance gave me the fullness of the priesthood and a blessing was given which included the following :-
Sealing power to bind & loose, curse & bless.
Blessings of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob.
The Holy Spirit of Promise bestowed.
Blessed to live as long as life is desirable.
Blessed to attain unto the Godhood.
Power to be a member of a Godhead bestowed.
Sealed up to eternal life
Power to have the heavens opened.
We were charged not to reveal to other individuals that we had received this ordinance. My wife was also anointed and ordained a queen and priestess.
THE ORDINANCE OF SECOND ANOINTINGS -- Part Two
'The Washing of The Feet', Wife to Husband
The second part of the second anointing was explained to us. We (my wife and I) were to go to another sealing room where we would be alone as a couple. There would be a bowl of water and a towel. My wife was to wash my feet (as Mary did to Jesus) and dry them. She would then place her hands upon my head and pronounce a blessing upon me as the spirit dictated.
This was a very moving and personal experience for us as a couple and we both ended in tears of great joy.
Following this we met in the celestial room with Elder Ballard and the others. Elder Ballard summarized what had happened and asked if there were any questions as they could only be answered at this time, in this place as we were charged to tell nobody that we had received this ordinance.
I have stated earlier some of the things mentioned in the blessing given to me. I cannot recall everything and I did not record it at the time. As illustration, however, the following is apparently the blessing given to Heber C. Kimball by President Brigham Young and it is similar to the one I received :-
“Brigham Young proceeded to anoint Br. Heber C. Kimble and Vilate his wife --- and pronounced the following blessing namely Bro Heber C. Kimble in the name of Jesus Christ we pour upon thy head this Holy oil & we anoint thee a King and Priest unto the most High God & in & over the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints and also Israel in this the Holy Temple of the Lord, at Nauvoo the City of Joseph State of Ills. & I seal upon you power to bind on Earth & it Shall be bound in Heaven & whomso-ever thou Shalt loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven, & whomsoever thou shalt curse Shalt be cursed, & whomsoever thou shalt bless, shall be blessed & I anoint thy head that it may be sound & thy brains shall be quick to think & to regulate thy whole body. & thine ears to hear the cries of the Poor & needy of thy Brethren, who shall come to thee for council & thine eyes that thou mayest see and understand the things of God--& that thou mayest behold Angels & thy mouth that [p. 4] thou mayest speak forth the great things of God & Seal upon you all the blessings of thy Progenitors Even Abraham Isaac & Jacob & even as Far back as the Priesthood: & I say that thou shalt live to a good old age Even to three score & ten & longer if thou desire it -- & thou shalt have Power to redeem thy progenitors & thou shalt have power over thy Posterity & shall Save all of them & bring them into thy Kingdom we also seal upon thee all the power & blessing of the Holy Reserection Even to the Eternal God head & no blessing that thy heart can conceive will be withheld from you & in the name of the Father & of the Son & of the Holy Spirit Amen--
He then anointed Sister Vilate Kimble a queen and Priestess unto her Husband [H. C. Kimball] in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints & in Iseral. & pronounced all the blessings upon her head in common with her husband.”
/s/ John D. Lee
2. Taken from the Nauvoo Temple 'Book of Anointings'; Historian's Office Library; January 8 - February 7, 1846; Book end title: 'W. Richards' in gold leaf; C.H.D., CR/342/3/box 4.
There is no doubt this had been a “life changing experience” as promised by Elder Hillam. I felt the “spirit” even stronger.
Nominating Others for the Ordinance
A little time after this “life changing experience” Elder Hillam asked me to nominate 2 couples I knew to receive this ordinance. I took this charge very seriously and asked Elder Hillam what qualities I should consider. He answered “find another you, mature people who have been tried and tested yet remained absolutely committed and dedicated to the church”. This was a flattering response. I knew the final decision would not be mine but, nevertheless, I considered it a very grave responsibility to make such nominations. I therefore went about it in the same manner I had done all my church life. I prayed for guidance to know Heavenly Father’s will in this respect, made a list of all the people I knew who could be considered, worked it out in my own mind and fasted and prayed.
Previously I had assumed, if anyone made sure their calling and election, it was received at a personal visit from Jesus Christ. He knows us and is the perfect judge. Now I was in a position of nominating others for something so sacred, more onerous than nominating bishops, patriarchs, stake presidency counsellors etc. I still assumed all nominations from all sources would be whittled down by an Area President and Apostle and the final decisions would be made by President Hinckley as he personally consulted with the Lord. (Years later I saw that these, like everything else in the church, were purely the decisions of mortal men. What arrogance for a church leader to assume he has the right to decide who will go to the “highest heaven”.)
Seventeen months later, in October 2003, I was studying in preparation for serving a full-time mission with my wife. Since June 2001 I had been told by General Authorities of the Church that, when I was ready to submit my mission papers, they would recommend me as a mission president.
I decided there was one question regarding the Book of Mormon I had answered many times before but I doubted anyone with a good scientific background would accept such an answer. As I considered God would not prevent someone joining his one true church simply because they had a better scientific education and understanding (“the glory of God is intelligence”), I studied to find an acceptable answer which I assumed would be to demonstrate the flaws in the scientific hypothesis. I wanted this answer for myself to teach others and for my missionaries if I were called as a mission president. NOT FOR ONE MINUTE, at that time, did I think the church was false. I KNEW, beyond any shadow of doubt, it was true. I just needed to know what was wrong with the currently held scientific views. After studying the specific scientific methodology, to my amazement, it stood up. These were not simply hypotheses and theories of scientists but demonstrable FACTS. I believed God to be the “Master Scientist” how else can He be the creator of all things. Therefore, true science cannot be in conflict with His revealed word.
This led me to consider in more depth other truth claims of the church and discuss them with 2 general authorities and consult 2 Brigham Young University professors. CONCLUSION – THE CHURCH WAS NOT TRUE, I HAD ALLOWED MYSELF TO BE DECEIVED.
If anyone is interested, I will give an account of that journey of discovery and the ramifications for my family and myself another time.
|Subject:||Re: My Second Anointing experience....now I am a son of perdition|
|Date:||Jan 21 10:40|
|I am fascinated by this account, as will be many
others. Your frankness and clarity are exemplary. Many congratulations on
getting to the point where you felt able to put this in writing. It is very
difficult to look back on a faith that one once believed in so intensely,
but which one later felt forced to abandon.
While you are in the vein, please could you post the account of the events you refer to when you write the words 'This led me to consider in more depth other truth claims of the church and discuss them with 2 general authorities and consult 2 Brigham Young University professors. CONCLUSION – THE CHURCH WAS NOT TRUE, I HAD ALLOWED MYSELF TO BE DECEIVED.'
Many people on this board would find such an account helpful and fascinating. Thanks again.
|Subject:||When I read your account|
|Date:||Jan 21 10:47|
|I see how serious these men (the church leaders) take
themselves. It all seems so real to them that they are above everyone else
because they have this special power in their own mind.
The sad part is the people that aren't quite good enough to have this done. The fact that they make you keep it quiet is quite telling. I can see how bishops and stake presidents would become jealous if they didn't get the blessing and another did. Do you know if there are any 'regular' church members who get this blessing? Are they only given to the higher ups in church callings? The hard working, poor, humble guy in the wings is the one I look up to.
You are in a special club that most of us just hear about. It will be interesting to hear your journey out of the church and to the truth, expecially since you were so entrenched in your belief. Very intriguing. Thanks for that.
|Subject:||Re: When I read your account|
|Date:||Jan 21 12:29|
|I thought the same thing you did. What about the poor
guy--a janitor, say----who works his whole life, pays tithing, and is sweet
to everyone. He is never a Mission President, or some other 'important
calling', but he is a fine person. Why are people like that excluded? This
seems to be based on position and power. It makes the church look like an
exclusive club, that one would not really want to be a member of.
I see the hand of Joseph Smith in this nonsense. There is an inner circle of the elite. This is the same way he spread his polygamy poison---the elites practice it---in secret, of course. It makes me ill. This is not religion, this is nonsense.
|Subject:||Re: My Second Anointing experience....now I am a son of perdition|
|Date:||Jan 21 10:48|
|Thanks for sharing, Anointed One. I'd certainly be
interested to hear of the fall-out for you and your family. I myself am much
younger and never got near to the point where I'd be called to a 2'nd
anointing. But, I was a true believer, RM (Zone Leader and AP), and BYU
grad. My 'loss of faith', or rather my gain of a true understanding, began
when I tried to study the true nature of marriage and the temple covenants,
in preparation for my own marriage. My wife and I learned too much about the
temple, the 'sealing power', polygamy, and other doctrinal developments in
'the city of Joesph', Illinois, in the 1840-1844 time period. So I've left
the church mentally, don't wear garments, don't attend church except with
extended family on holidays. I'm not sure what to do as far as raising my
own kids. We'll see.
|Date:||Jan 21 10:51|
|Please do not delay in relating your journey out. I hope you will name the apostles and professors, would be very interested to know.|
|Date:||Jan 21 10:52|
|Wow! I can only imagine the fall out from your having the courage to face the truth. I would very much like to hear your story.|
|Subject:||It's all so hard to believe|
|Date:||Jan 21 11:06|
|Maybe my healthy skepticism has become unhealthy.
It strikes me as odd that someone who had held so many positions within the church would have any one of the difficulties prominently mentioned in this post:
(1) confidentiality - even missionaries have learned how to hold confidential information from people they care about. I find the premise that this person had lived in a world of full disclosure up to this point difficult to believe.
(2) the blessings themselves - I find it strange that no particularly personal passages stood out from the blessings. Instead, we got a recount of published blessings from church history.
(3) inspiration & BoM questions - from the time of his first question, even the least believing member of the church has dealt with these questions. This post makes it sound like a prominent leader in the church was experiencing these questions for the first time only after this ceremony. Again, any young priesthood holder wonders if they were really 'inspired', and learns to resolve that question at an early age. I find it hard to believe that this individual only wondered about it when faced with this task of nomination. And that was the first time questions about the BoM rose in the leader's mind?
Oh well. Like I said, it's probably just that skepticism creeping in again. For better or worse.
|Subject:||Your scepticism is normal and healthy. What does 'anointed one' have to do to prove he is real? n/t|
|Subject:||To answer your questions.....|
|Date:||Jan 21 11:40|
|I must apologize if I did not make myself clear and
caused you any misunderstanding. The 3 items you mention :
1. I have never had difficulty in keeping confidences, it is part of the every day work of a bishop and stake president as well as a class secretary or whatever calling or position in life one has. Keeping confidences protects people, and is good when appropriate. In this case my issue was with telling a deliberate lie, not keeping a confidence.
2. The blessing was not personal other than being called by name. Remember there were other couples in the room and we all basically received the same wording. It was not like a setting apart for a calling where, typically, the blessing would be personal.
3. You misunderstood or I mislead you, I did not have any doubts about the church. It was 17 months after the second anointing and I still had no doubts. I was just looking for a better explanation than the church usually gave to a specific question. Of course I had dealt with such questions all my life from missionaries, investigators, members, leaders etc. As a stake president I had even excommunicated apostates after dealing with their issues relating to the Adam God theory.
Anyway, thank you for your response and, once again, I apologize if I am not making myself as clear as I should.
|Date:||Jan 21 11:55|
|I appreciate you taking the time to answer those questions. And I am glad you understand my skepticism. Please don't feel like you owe me an explanation for your actions or the way you presented your story. I just found those points particularly odd - from my point of view.|
|Subject:||Something seems to stand out to me here|
|Date:||Jan 21 11:09|
|Nobody washed your wife's feet? Or did I miss
She washed your's, but you didn't wash her's?
So--the wives basically don't receive the second anointing because, as usual, they can't make it into the CK without their husband.
I'm very interested in hearing the rest, too.
|Subject:||I, for one, have no problem believing Anointed One, and|
|Date:||Jan 21 11:29|
|feel privileged for him to share this ordinance with
I congratulate you, Anointed One, on having the courage to step forward, especially having the knowledge that it will no doubt cause much anguish for you and your family.
I also held, what some would consider lofty callings in TSCC, and almost a year ago, after doing much study, investigation, and prayer, after over 50 years of membership, resigned. My DW resigned with me.
I anguished over the decision for months before sending my resignation. And, even as I sit here today typing this, I still feel some anguish, but not quite as much as I did initially. It rocked me to my core to finally realize the TSCC was an absolute fraud.
It also shook some TBM's to their core, to know that we had turned our backs on 'salvation', and also were apostates, heretics, and sons of perdition.
Yes, we would love to hear the 'whole story'. Please share as you feel able to do so.
|Subject:||Re: I, for one, have no problem...|
|Date:||Jan 21 12:43|
|Author:||anon & confused|
Tell us how you, yourself, think that you could be a 'son of perdition', when you, yourself, never had your 'calling and election made sure'.
I had always thought that this possibility [of becoming a son of perdition] was 'extended' only to people like Anointed One. (if his story holds up, I mean).
|Subject:||Re: My Second Anointing experience....now I am a son of perdition|
|Date:||Jan 21 11:41|
|anointed one, thank you for having the courage to post this. whenever you are ready i would love to hear more of your journey out! i also wonder if your wife's calling and election was made sure as well...or just yours. mormon sexism burns me up!|
|Subject:||Re: My Second Anointing experience....now I am a son of perdition|
|Date:||Jan 21 11:50|
|Why is this such an 'inside' and exclusive thing?
Why do people get to nominate new club members?
Why would God recognize or create such a ceremony?
|Subject:||What strikes me is that...|
|Date:||Jan 21 11:51|
|if this story is true then it is highly probable that
my FIL/MIL have gone through this as he has held very high callings in TSCC
including temple president.
I'm thinking that this is psychologically brilliant and explains why higher-ups stay in spite of doubts and cognitive dissonance.
|Subject:||Yes, please, keep talking. You have info we all want.|
|Date:||Jan 21 11:55|
|Author:||been through it|
|It's stunning how you can be BIC several generations
worth, both sides, and still find so much untapped territory. How is it
possible there were ever so many unknown nooks and crannies to our religion
Please, do keep telling us more, anything that you can remember.
I would also like specifically to know about your wife. Women aren't used to giving blessings. How did she feel about this sudden role reversal? I would have been terrified. How did you feel about it? And how did/does your wife feel about your journey to apostasy?
Thank you so much for sharing these personal thoughts and experiences. It can't be easy.
|Subject:||Anyone else notice the wife 'blessed' him with the laying on of hands!?!?! Significant no?|
|Date:||Jan 21 12:05|
|If this is true, then the Morg's sexist policy does
not continue in the elite levels where they nominate each other like in
Amway or the Freemasons.
So, is sexual equality a higher law? Does that mean the secular world or Church of England are closer to the higher law?
|Subject:||So, can a person with this 2nd annointing commit ANY sin but the 2 mentioned and stil go to the CK?|
|Date:||Jan 21 12:11|
|If this is so, it proves once more this cult is evil and a lie.|
|Subject:||Re: Second Anointings after Pres. McKay|
|Date:||Jan 21 12:12|
|We lived in southern utah from 1973-1979. During this time my DH (on more than one occasion) heard our stake president talk of President Kimball's health, saying that he was still in good enough health to carry forward with second anointings, which required his approval as the then current prophet. In this regard our stake president spoke of being asked to make recommendations of people from his stake to receive this ordinance. So they were still doing them in the 70's.|
|Subject:||What I found interesting|
|Date:||Jan 21 12:24|
|I found it interesting that obviously, Hinckley knows
about the ordinance as he basically approves who it is performed on.
In the ordinance, Anointed One states that he was blessed, including,
'Power to be a member of a Godhead bestowed.'
And there is Hinckley on Larry King, claiming to not know if Godhood is preached or ever was.
You have a regular, lay member too good to lie to his family, and then the so-called prophet, lying out his ass.
It's good to be king (or prophet, apostle, seventy, etc.)
Thanks for your recounting, Anointed One, I appreciate your courage and honesty.
|Subject:||He is backed by a promise from heaven NOT MATTER WHAT HE DOES with the small exception of|
|Date:||Jan 21 12:41|
|saying the Holy Ghost isn't real.|
|Subject:||Thank you for sharing your story..|
|Date:||Jan 21 12:30|
|Thank you for sharing your experience. I have been
waiting for several months, and it has been well worth the wait.
What a service you have done in exposing the true class society that exists in the LDS church and the bullcrap belief that everybody is equal.
|Subject:||Re: My SP confirmed just last year|
|Date:||Jan 21 12:35|
|to me that this ordinance still is preformed. My SP is
a teacher a BYU. He sees me as a defender of the faith. I travel and I am in
front of clients who ask me many questions about the LDS church. What he
does not know, is all that defending has led me to believe the Church is not
Last year I told him about questions I was being asked about the 2nd Anointing. He confirmed that it is real, and gave me a rough outline without all this excellent detail. The outline was similar to this. I would have to believe this is accurate.
|Subject:||mom and her sister|
|Date:||Jan 21 12:42|
|My mom and her sister used to sit together and discuss
family history in hushed tones. See, my ancestors were very involved in
Mountain Meadows. My aunt was always very interested in reading the diaries
of our deceased relatives, and particularly interested in the way the
diaries alluded to the secrets of the church.
Anyway, I remember overhearing something about a super-secret temple ceremony that one of my ancestors was asked to join. He and his wife apparently died before the appointment.
As a kid, I thought this was a reference to polygamy. After all, it was Southern Utah.
Now I'm thinking I should call my aunt. I know my mom won't tell me. She loves keeping the family secrets.
|Subject:||I tried to answer questions|
|Date:||Jan 21 13:38|
|I will try to answer your questions in another post
so, if there are any more, let me know here and I will answer them as best I
Thanks for all the kind and supportive comments.
|Subject:||Thanks. Please also....|
|Date:||Jan 21 13:57|
|Author:||been through it|
|...tell us what positions do you think coincide with
this ordinance? For instance, do you think all temple presidents have had it
done? If they are turning over their buildings to have this done all the
time, surely they would be amongst the class of people who would get their
panties in a bunch if they didn't get the privilege themselves. What about
Stake Presidents, Seventies, etc.?
Also....in the other thread I asked about your wife's feelings in re having to do the laying on of hands. If it had been me, such a role reversal would have freaked me out entirely, especially since they didn't prepare her for this before.
And....her feelings in re your apostasy.
Thank you very much.
Your answers will definitely color how I view some of my relatives.
|Subject:||In your prior post...|
|Date:||Jan 21 14:06|
|you wrote: 'This led me to consider in more depth
other truth claims of the church and discuss them with 2 general authorities
and consult 2 Brigham Young University professors. CONCLUSION – THE CHURCH
WAS NOT TRUE, I HAD ALLOWED MYSELF TO BE DECEIVED.
If anyone is interested, I will give an account of that journey of discovery and the ramifications for my family and myself another time.'
I realize it may take some time, but many of us would like to hear the whole account of your journey of discovery, and if it's not too personal, the ramifications for you and your family.
Perhaps you could post it in the index of stories of this website, and then let us know it has been added on the bulletin board.
|Subject:||Re: In your prior post... - LINK to prior post -- for reference.|
|Date:||Jan 21 14:19|
|There is so much that is 'secret' in the LDS Church. If one thing is a
secret, what else are they hiding?
The account answered any questions I might have about the anointing. From what I have been told, I found it totally plausible and realistic.
My questions, like many others, have to do with what specifically changed your mind in the process of studying to prepare for a mission, 17 months after the anointing.
What is your current status in the LDS Church?
|Subject:||re 2nd Anointing|
|Date:||Jan 21 14:17|
|Do you, Anointed One, think this is more common, and
more of an assembly-line ritual, than you were led to believe? Do you feel
that is one of the main reasons for secrecy?
I was BIC, and have been a TBM for over 40 years. I have learned the truth just recently.
In keeping with what I have recently learned about how the mormon church operates, and from your description of your second anointing, I get the impression that this ritual is more common than anyone realizes.
There were five couples going through this ordinance, right? What was the other couple you ran into on the temple grounds doing there? How long did the did the entire second anointing take, from when you entered the temple, to when you exited? What did Bro Ballard and the others do the rest of the day? Do you think yours was the only second-anointing session that day? Did you see others entering the temple as you and the other couples were leaving? If everyone is sworn to secrecy, there is no way to keep track of the multitudes of couples who have had their second anointing. Each husband recommends two many other couples, similar to the referral system in a MLM business. The numbers could really add up!
I doubt that the Church President is all that aware of who receives the Second Anointing--but probably the names are on the computer, and he pushes 'enter,' just like the missionaries are assigned.
Many of us on this board felt betrayed when we discovered our secret temple names weren't 'special,' just for us, but names attached by a computer to that specific day.
We were disappointed that our 'inspired' patriarchal blessing was almost word-for-word identical to each other's. We are told to keep those private, too.
Obviously, the second-anointing ordinance you and your wife received was repeated from a text from Joseph Smith's time, and was not personal.
I would venture to guess that having the wife lay her hands on the husband's head might be something new, added recently, to be more PC, to make the women feel more a part of things.
Wouldn't it be interesting to hang around the temple on Sundays, and see how many couples furtively sneak in there!
Thank you so much for writing this. It must have been difficult for you. Everything was very clear. What struck me the most was your own SINCERITY. You really did believe! You could never be a Son of Perdition, because you never had contact with Christ. He was somewhere else that day. You never had contact with a prophet of God. What you felt was emotion and love and bonding with your dear wife, and I pray that you still have that. I don't want to be nosey about your identity, but I would like to know that your wife is OK with everything you have been going through.
|Subject:||Only 5 couples at that temple but.......|
|Date:||Jan 21 14:29|
|....there would have been others at the London Temple.
Not many however as I was with Elder Ballard Saturday and until Sunday
afternoon when he flew to London on a private jet supplied by John Huntsman.
In fact, his whole trip from the US to Europe was on the private jet. So he
would have performed more ordinance in London on that trip. No, the sister I
met was not there to have the ordinance and certainly people were not
secretly being herded into the templein large numbers. Only 5 couples in
that temple on this apostle's trip.
I think on Michael Watson (secretary to the First Presidency) knows how many have this blessing as it is kept so secret.
|Subject:||Numbers were only kept secret in recent decades ...|
|Date:||Jan 21 15:37|
|Each and every year for the entire run of 'The Millienial Star' (Church Publication) the number of 2nd anointings were
listed each and every year (this was more than 5 decades).
When the saints left Nauvoo there was a serious rush on this ordinance and over 12,000 received it.
The numbers weren't secret back in former-latter-day saint times nor were the actual recipients very secretive. There are many journals as well as family members who were told ... this is but one of the many changes from former-LDS days vs. modern-LDS days.
Keeping secrets seems to be the going concept to live by in these 'conservative' modern times.
|Subject:||After your 2nd Anointing, were you still required to pay tithing?|
|Date:||Jan 21 15:14|
|Thank you so much for your post!
You already answered about 100 questions!
I, too, was struck by your sincerity in believing in the church. I often wonder if, at some point, some intelligent, devoted men and women in high church positions stop believing in the divinity of the mormon scriptures and the old polygamous prophets. I wonder if perhaps they somehow make peace with the truth, and continue on with their family lifestyle, and continue to devote their time and money to something they still feel is 'a good cause.'
Something doesn't have to be made manifest through God, in order to be worthwhile to humanity.
I hope you understand that we aren't a bunch of anti-mormons and 'cranks,' on the RFM board, but some of us have been and continue to be seriously harmed by the church's false teachings, abusive church members, and blind judgments that have torn families apart.
My close relative was in the First Presidency. He was a man of integrity, and a true heart, and I know he had a testimony of the gospel. He was also highly intelligent. He was able to help me through some rough patches, and answer some important questions for me. I often wonder how he'd explain the DNA evidence, Book of Abraham, and all the (not-instpired) changes to church history and doctrine.
Sorry about the tithing question, but many of us feel the church is very mercinary.
|Subject:||I detect the presence of a TBM shocked at the disclosures of 'anointed one' ...|
|Date:||Jan 21 15:51|
|Author:||Anglophile investigator ( referring to a deleted post from a probable Mormon)|
|'It can't be true! No-one whose calling and election
had been made sure could ever desert the church ... it must be such a
wonderful, impressive experience ... they see Jesus, don't they.'
Nope. It's just the usual temple stuff, only more one-on-one.
And when you see through it, it's an obvious crock.
|Subject:||Re: I tried to answer questions but thread was closed re 2nd Anointing|
|Date:||Jan 21 15:37|
There has been a facinating spectrum of responses to your post. I have been waiting anxiously to hear of your experience. My TBM brothers and I have discussed several times whether or not DM, DF have received this ordinance (they meet 99% of the criteria for being full club members).
I was VERY interested to learn you are in the UK, and obviously not in the London Temple District. That narrows down the geography drastically.
My father was a missionary in Lancastershire (most noteably Manchester)decades ago. I took him back to the UK with me while on a business trip 4 years ago. I was able to meet people he taught, baptized, and associated with those many years ago. The reunions were very sweet and heart warming; I struggled the entire time as I was just beginning my deepest bout of doubt with TSCC.
I think, specifically, of a man my father knew in Manchester who joined the church in the very early 60's and went on to become BP, Bishop, SP, Patriarch, MP and area authority. His wife died a few years ago after being very ill.
Does any of this ring a bell with you????
Any further dialog you will share regarding your exit story will be very, very welcome.
|Subject:||What a bunch of holy hokey pokey|
|Date:||Jan 21 15:42|
|Thanks for sharing your story. Kudos to you for
finding your way out after being that deeply enmeshed.
I am impressed by what a MLM scheme LDS, Inc. is. Ordinances are nothing more than formal ways of binding sheeple to the organization as they rise to the next tier in the loyalty cult. The 2nd Anointing is nothing more then a way of doing that for the inner circle 'elite' that run the Corporation. They use psychology 101 that's time tested and effective. When you distill it down it's nothing more than a child's game playing dress up and pretend. It's sickening.
|Subject:||Uncle Mo stole my thunder....|
|Date:||Jan 21 15:53|
|The 2nd anointing is another stair step to Mormon
glory and is a crafty - and pyschologically effective - way of locking
people to the church.
All the more reason why I have to give you, Anointed One, props for walking away from it all. You've got big balls my friend.
|Subject:||Re: A Group Within a Group is a Typical for Cults n/t|
|Subject:||Re: Bind & loose, curse & bless|
|Date:||Jan 21 16:30|
|Bind and Loose, Curse and Bless...
I think this would mean, the power to give and take away (bind and loose) and then the part about 'curse and bless', so does that mean they [morg leaders, second anointed ones, huckleberry Hinckley or whomever] will also put a curse on you then and or can and do practice this? So it’s like the 'black Arts' then? This part in particular REALLY stood out to me so can you explain?
Also, the woman washes the man’s feet and gives him a blessing yet, he does not wash her feet or give her a blessing, so does this mean the female is the exalted Goddess hence, she does not need the blessing but has the power to give one?
|Subject:||Re: Bind & loose, curse & bless|
|Date:||Jan 21 21:26|
|That, to me, is very interesting, also.
In the Bible, Jesus washes Peter's feet. And, Peter is 'aghast', (taken aback) for a moment, or two, because only menial servants washed another's feet, back then.
And, Peter had a problem, with that. But, Jesus explained that He, Jesus, was there to serve them. And, if Peter did not accept this service, then he, Peter, had no part of/with Him [Jesus].
So, I can easily see the washing of feet as a demonstration of service to (or, in the position of serving) the one being served.
However, if Jesus showed the Supreme Example of being such a servant, then it appears that the woman, in this whole context, is the 'greater servant than' the man! For, she serves her husband and blesses HIM!
I think it is all an ego trip, anyway. Because, the woman can come away thinking that she is the greater servant, of the two: when, in reality, she is still being 'informed' of her position, relative to the Garden of Eden experience (where she was to serve [read 'obey', here] Adam, as Adam served--and obeyed--God).
The woman is STILL the one to obey and serve the man, regardless! I imagine that somewhere along the line, it would present to her mind that she is being honored with the ability to serve her 'master' (who is her husband).
Shucks, any Mexican housekeeper can feel so honored, too, if that were true!
As in, 'I am a true servant, señor employer!'
(At which she receives a pat on the head, by her master)
|Subject:||Anointed One: Family Reactions?|
|Date:||Jan 21 16:56|
|Hi Anointed One. Fascinating account. I'm curious to
know if you have publicly resigned from the church and/or publicly expressed
How have your wife and family handled your changing views? Have your wife and/or children abandoned you due to your unbelief, or joined in your newfound understanding? I ask because my own transition from faith to doubt to unbelief has proven to be incredibly painful for my family. So I would love to know how your family has responded.
|Subject:||A Rhetorical Question|
|Date:||Jan 21 19:12|
|Does someone who has received the Second Anointing
still have Jesus Christ as a savior, given that they can suffer for their
own sins that can be expiated?
This point, along with polytheism, is why I think that Joseph Smith's ultimate theology was decidedly post-Christian.
|Date:||Jan 21 20:06|
|Thank you for sharing your story.
An interesting thought I had while reading this is, why doesn't God go ahead and take the opportunity of having your 'calling and election made sure' to appear before you and confirm with undeniable evidence of the truth of it all? I mean, if at that point, the rest of your life is set and destined - with almost no chance of NOT getting to the highest tier of heaven - then why not just reward your obedience with Proof? At that point, your trials are over, right?
Short of that, it kind of trivializes the whole ordinance down to, as has already been suggested, merely an illusory badge of elitism.
At least Scientology tells you about aliens. Now, THAT'S a punch line.
|Subject:||Anointed one, your courage overwhelms me|
|Date:||Jan 21 20:32|
|I cannot imagine the personal courage it must have
taken to reveal this.
My hat is off to you for honoring Truth (capital T). I would serve no God that did not also honor Truth above Obedience.
|Date:||Jan 21 21:44|
|I agree with (and have long-promoted) your
'There is no HONOR, where there is no 'TRUTH above LOYALTY'.'
Anyway, I see the 'Suits', at the top of Mo-Ville (aka, Church HQ) as being disingenuously 'expecting'--dare I say 'quietly demanding of'(?)--LOYALTY above all else.
Even BKP (Boyd Packer) said that '...not all things that are true are useful'. I can only surmise what little mice run around that little exercise wheel, in Packer's brain, on that one!
One can infer that truth--according to Packer--can be dispensed with, if it interferes with the concept of allegiance and LOYALTY.
And, if one digs hard enough, into Mormon History, one will find a Council of Fifty, whose 'job' it was (or, so seemed, to be) to exercise threats against those who wished to step back from this 'loyalty' thing, to have a better look!
P.S: I think the saying, 'You cannot see the forest, for the trees' (which, I believe, is an American expression) conveys the idea, brilliantly. Because Mormons are so close to the subject, they cannot get the large and broad overview, of an independent observer: looking at things, from a distance.
I have known people who were quickly 'herded back into 'line'', for wanting to step back, and get that broader view of things, in Mormonism.
Strange Cult. That is what it is!
Follow the FOLLY
Follow the FOLLY
Follow the FOLLY
(where 'folly' is synonymous with 'Brethren')
|Subject:||Re: I tried to answer questions but thread was closed re 2nd Anointing|
|Date:||Jan 21 21:58|
|Maybe this helps to explain why JS and others felt they could screw around, commit bank fraud etc. They had it made. Great system.|
|Subject:||In re Anointed One 's Thread and Anon & Confused query to sfex|
|Date:||Jan 21 13:01|
|I have not received the second anointing, but correct
me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that once you turn your back on
the TSCC, you are considered condemned, unless you repent and rejoin.
Pursuant to the dictionary definition, perdition = complete and irreparable loss; ruin. Theology: a) the loss of the soul; damnation b)same as hell.
The topical guide in BOM: (paraphrasing) Sons of Perdition essentially is spiritual death by unpardonable sin against the Holy Ghost.
Am I wrong that the TSCC considers all apostates and heretics as persons who deny the Holy Ghost, and ultimately 'sons of perdition'?
Please enlighten me if I am wrong.
|Subject:||Yeah...do we qualify as sons of perdition?|
|Date:||Jan 21 13:12|
|I have heard varying opinions on the question of
whether a guy like me (RM, BYU grad, temple marriage, former MTC teacher,
many ward and stake leadership positions (although never bishop or SP),
etc.) might qualify me. I have heard, through the grapevine, that some
mormon folk believe I am, and other believe I am not.
What exactly are the criteria?
I do recall, at some point, being told that it was basically reserved for those whose calling and election had been made sure.
|Subject:||The church considers very few to be sons of perdition....|
|Date:||Jan 21 13:21|
|certainly not all apostates and heretics. Sure they
may have denied the Holy Ghost but the test is whether the denial is after
'the heavens have been opened up to that person'. When I asked a GA whether
I would be a son of perdition he was very careful not to condemn me and
assure me and encourage me to keep my wonderful family for eternity.
it is one of those tough doctrines they taught openly in the early days of the church but modern leaders are trying to be politically correct just as they no longer declare the catholic church is the whore of the earth.
In my case, I have no doubt whatsoever that I am a son of perdition according to church teachings having had my calling and election made sure. It was that horror that took me so long to make my final decision. The fear of 'outer darkness' and not being with my family haunted me for some time. Why such a penalty ? All I did was seek the truth and I will end up (according to church dictrine) lower than Adolf Hitler. That sounds fair doesn't it ?
|Subject:||Re: The church considers very few to be sons of perdition....|
|Date:||Jan 21 13:34|
|That is my understanding also.
But, I never did get an answer to whether a woman could be a 'son of perdition' or something similar! Must be a guys club! :-)
The big carrot is the celestial forever family they hold over your head, which is nonsense!
The LDS Church's claimed authority and blathering rhetoric is nothing but imaginary speculation with a big dose of fear!
I am so glad to be rid of that nonsense!
Why live in that kind of fear and guilt and shame? It just never ends!
|Subject:||Thank You Anointed One for your response ....|
|Date:||Jan 21 13:37|
|I researched further in the Bible to find anything I
could about Perdition and Sons of Perdition. I found only one reference to
Son of Perdidition located at John 17:12. There were some other biblical
references to perdition which I interpret, just as Websters dictionary says:
perdition = hell.
At least one other biblical reference referred to perdition as being for the ungodly.
So, perhaps just because we turn our back on the Mormon doctrine, we are not categorically ungodly, and therefore not sons of perdition.
Very interesting discussion, however.
|Date:||Jan 21 22:27|
|The only reason most are not considered 'sons of perdition' is due to the greediness of LDS Inc. The real test? If they feel that at some point, a person might be able to financially contribute (aka pay tithing) again to them (TSCC), then the person is not a son of perdition. If they believe it's hopeless that the person will ever again contribute a dime, then they are more likely to fall into the 'perdition' camp.|
|Subject:||Why is leaving the church equal to denying the holy ghost?|
|Date:||Jan 21 13:49|
|the holy ghost is not the church.|
|Subject:||Leaving the church is not denying the holy ghost unless...|
|Date:||Jan 21 14:08|
|....you have had your calling and election made sure, in my opinion. Then it becomes the unpardonable sin. However, it doesn't really matter as the church is not true. It was there to scare us and it certainly caused me several months delay until I realized it was just a superstition like 7 years bad luck for breaking a mirror etc.|
|Subject:||Exactly, That Is The Bottom Line....|
|Date:||Jan 21 14:31|
|It doesn't matter, because the church is not true.
Amen and Amen.
|Subject:||Anointed One - What was the Book of Mormon doubt/issue you researched that was mentioned|
|Date:||Jan 21 13:57|
|in your prior post? You mentioned an apparent conflict
with scientific facts and the Book of Mormon. I am very curious, and would
very much appreciate more information.
|Subject:||Anointed One: family reactions?|
|Date:||Jan 21 16:42|
|Hi Anointed One. Fascinating account. I'm curious to
know if you have publicly resigned from the church and/or publicly expressed
How have your wife and family handled your changing views? Has your wife and children abandoned you due to your unbelief, or joined in your newfound understanding? I ask because my own transition from faith to doubt to unbelief has proven to be incredibly painful for my family. So I would love to know how your family has responded.
|Subject:||Too painful to write about at present...all family are TBM n/t|
|Date:||Jan 21 17:47|
|Subject:||Grand Prize Question: A.O. have you used same logic & reasoning to ...|
|Date:||Jan 21 17:03|
|exit faith in a thunder god in the sky all together?
many of us here would hope so, as other faiths have about as much evidence to stand on as the mormon faith.
Once your eyes have been opened there is very little that should convince you that 'truth' rests in ANY other religion. They all have their little inner circles of eliteness, and it is all smoke and mirrors all designed to capture your heart and mind and more importantly all of your subsequent posterity and a good portion of their wealth.
|Date:||Jan 21 17:43|
|Subject:||I don't think Anoited one qualifies for perditon|
|Date:||Jan 21 18:06|
|I don't have the quote handy, but it was explained to qualify for perdition, you had to know for a surety the church was true and then deny it. It was explained it was like being outside on a sunny day and looking right at the sun and denying there was such a thing as a sun. Anointed one is denying the church is true and truly believes it is not true. So he is not denying something he believes to be true. (Unless he really still knows it is true and just saying be believes it is false.)|
|Subject:||'Anointed One' story|
|Date:||Jan 22 21:36|
|I really don't know if AO is legit or not. One thing that did puzzle me is that he said that Ballard flew to London on the Huntsman jet. I did a search and GBH is in Paraguay that weekend and I assume GBH flew on the huntsman jet. Since it is my understanding that he doesn't fly commercial any more. Any thoughts?|
|Subject:||Huntsman has more than one jet.|
|Subject:||Do you want to bet...?|
|Date:||Jan 25 12:16|
|Do you want to bet that Huntsman not only has two jets, but also has had his 'calling and election made sure'?|
|Subject:||More than one jet and Elder Ballard is related to Huntsman by marriage I believe n/t|
|Date:||Jan 23 11:25|
|I have been looking for the answers to all the
questions that were posed on the two threads relating to your experience...
I haven't been able to find the second thread...could you post more about your story, fall out, current interests, etc. I am sure I speak for a large community here that would love to hear more of your story.
|Subject:||This is why I think this is big|
|Date:||Jan 25 09:54|
|Anointed One is right. I verified it. Huntsman has two
Anointed One take your time. However, when you are ready to give up the details and go public, I think we can take down the Morg. The fact that Huntsman would give up his only two jets and that GBH would specifically ask for you to obtain this level says something about its importance to GBH.
If members knew there was one more secret level of masonry/mormonism they could obtain to reach heaven. I think there would be an outcry since there is no way to verify if that level was obtained. I would love to spring this on my Ultra-tbm relatives. Not as righteous as you thought??? Any rumors of who went to the temple on Sunday would fly around. The quest for leadership would increase exponentially. Oh the turmoil.
I am thinking if you did a public release as the November surprise. If some media member asked Mitt if he was considered a member in good standing and if so has he received the highest level of secrecy (probably needs reworded).
Take your time but boy will it be a ride.
|Subject:||I have seen a few cars at different times in Toronto parking lot|
|Date:||Jan 25 11:09|
|Usually the parking lot is closed but some times I am
up in the area and drive past temple and see a few cars. I have oftened
wondered why? Are there people in Ontario being exalted on Sunday! I have
often wondered why I saw cards there every once and awhile.
Maybe just temple workers learning how to do stuff. What do you think?
|Subject:||Oh come on, you really think this is all that much more of a stretch|
|Date:||Jan 25 11:20|
|than the temple endowment we all know and love? Nevermos will shrug it off as just one more strange magical thing about TSCC. TBMs won't believe the parts they don't like--I mean there is skepticism here on the board and we WANT to believe it. And, TBMs will also love the idea that the GAs are good for something--like getting your calling and election made sure. Those that think you need to see Jesus will believe that AO is leaving that part out. Others will explain that the GAs represent j.h.christ himself. Many will secretly hope that they get 'called.' The ones who will be upset are already upset about other stuff and thus this information could be a tipping point...but bring down the Morg? Wishful thinking, I'm afraid.|
|Subject:||Although this is new to you, and to many others...|
|Date:||Jan 25 13:49|
|This information has been available for years. I think these personal posts about AO's own experience will help some additional individuals to see the farce, but I don't think they are going to bring TSCC to its knees.|
|Subject:||I agree it could do a lot of damage handled right.....|
|Date:||Jan 25 15:25|
|....not enough to bring down the Morg, IMO, (it has
survived so many damaging facts so far). However, handled in the right way,
released at the right time and through the right media it could cause
serious damage to Mitt's campaign. I think a release on the second anointing
and certain other distasteful doctrines at the same time would kill Mitt's
chances dead in the water.
It would also generate national publicity which would damage the Morg and I don't think GBH and his spokespeople will be able to get off the hook if the questioner is persistent. I was going to start a thread on this topic after the Florida primary as any release needs to be done before Super Tuesday. This is not politics it's about a KING wanting to be President and the strange beliefs he and his church claim as the truth - the only true church on the face of the earth.
You seem very positive Dead Cat so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I think this board certainly has the calibre of people who know how this knowledge can best be used to show the church for what it is.
|Subject:||I have indirect confirmation that the story is correct|
|Date:||Jan 25 11:26|
|For this post, I can't mention my regular moniker. I
have been in contact with a relatively high level church official who left
the church. This person has had the Second Endowment - or Calling and
Election Made Sure.
He read the post from Anointed One and said that it was accurate and the same as his experience.
Also, he stated that the Second Endowment isn't that common. According to my source, an apostle only performs the Second Endowments about every five years or so to a small group of people.
What was additionally interesting was that the church has specific guidelines for eligibility including minimum age (around 59 - although it could be older). Also, the husband would have had to serve in a very responsible church leadership position - stake president or higher.
I hope that soon this person will speak more about his experience - so until then, this is the best I can do.
|Date:||Jan 25 11:41|
|I posted: 'Also, he stated that the Second Endowment
isn't that common. According to my source, an apostle only performs the
Second Endowments about every five years or so to a small group of people.'
My source stated that this would be per temple. So, the Preston temple district would only experience about five couples having their Second Endowment every five to ten years.
|Subject:||The ritual does exist, if that's still in question.....|
|Date:||Jan 25 12:23|
|While typing my fanatical ancestors journals from the late 1800s I came across the grandmother who wanted to get her, 'second anointing' or 'calling and election made sure' or whatever you want to call it. There was a description of the ritual and as I remember it, it correlates with the original description as given on this board by AO. I asked my TBM siblings about it but didn't get much in the way of answers.|
|Subject:||I have further indirect confirmation that it is true|
|Date:||Jan 25 13:13|
|Author:||anon for this|
|I have a close friend who received it in her 40's.
Husband was mission pres. They, along with 4 other couples in the country
they were serving in, were flown to the states, secretly, and BKP [Boyd K.
Packer] was the officiator. This was under Kimball. I have asked her to post
her story, but she is not ready to. It took her over 15 years to tell
anyone, even though she left the church years ago because of all the lies.
The deep dark secrets just keep getting darker and deeper. But there is no way to take the church down. Their power and influence is way beyond what any of us can comprehend.
My personal feeling, and this is only mine, is that everyone of these small temples are being utilized in this way. It is about creating loyalty for the first pres., -creating a power base.
Can AO tell us how big of a tithe payer he was? I wonder if that comes into play when they choose.
|Subject:||I think it is very common--and TSCC keeps it 'uncommon' by keeping it secret and by invitation only.|
|Date:||Jan 25 15:31|
|'Anon for this,' You are not the only one who thinks
this! I agree with you 100%!
BTW, do people realize how many, many mormons have 'achieved' Stake President or higher status?
This is very large, secret mormon power-base of wealthy people!
We all know in your heart that Mitt Romney has received his Second Anointing.
How can this not be HUGE for the media? This is like a candidate having the Mafia behind him. Romney has been anointed exempt from the laws of the land!
For that alone, I would not vote for Romney.
Maybe we can't bring the church down in one giant scandal, but we can shine the light of truth in its moldy, secret corners, and (maybe with Lysol) kill off some of the slime holding up those temple walls.
|Subject:||AO is indeed authentic - We have a mutual friend - n/t|
|Date:||Jan 25 13:33|
|Subject:||Re: AO is indeed authentic - We have a mutual friend - n/t|
|Date:||Jan 25 14:08|
|I don't doubt his story of the Second Anointing. That
has been common knowledge for many years.
I have other questions, about his statements about other 'doctrine' they I would like further explained as they didn't match with what I had been taught.
|Subject:||You can actually do a search for 'second anointing' and find sites. NT|
15. Temple Divorces