DH told me if it comes between the church and marriage, the church will win. Gee, I feel sooooooo special now.
He told me there is no possible way that my prayers are telling me the church is wrong. Says he doesn't care about what happened over a hundred years ago and there are just things we don't know and how dare I presume to know more than everyone else in the church. Says what the church "omits" just isn't necessary. I use to think he was a smart guy, now thinking he's just scared to admit he might have been duped. Every time I would tell him how I didn't agree with something said or done, he says he's never heard it. I guess I need to start recording RS lessons.

He had no answer to why if he thinks the church is the only right one, why the only thing he ever does is show up on Sunday.

Even though I will have to fake it for to keep the peace for now, a tremendous amount of guilt is lifted off me. I no longer care what others think of me. Don't care that I'm not running a perfect Mormon home where I'm suppose to have scripture study, prayer, FHE every week, no "bad influences" through the tv, and keep my 4 yr old daughter's arms covered for modesty sake. If DH believes, let him DO IT. And I know he won't. If he wants our sons to be boy scouts, he can take them. And he won't because he hated scouts. I feel free for the first time in a long while.

Anyone else been able to stay married in this situation?

You should do things for him mormon chicks will never do. nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

People say all kinds of dumb things when they fight.

If you're lucky maybe he will eat those words someday.

In the meantime i'd drop the subject. Let him do himself in trying to show you what a great mo he can be. Doesn't sound like he'll last too long without someone else pulling the weight. Your version of Sunday might start looking pretty good to him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 12:05AM by Mia.

You need a different approach.

My favorite is the flirty one where you say, basically, "I know who you are underneath the Mormonism and that's the man I fell in love with. So whatever-- Joseph Smith and his Girls On Fire in Heaven or Muhammed's 70 virgins waiting. Believe what you want in the afterlife, I'm for spicing up the time here on earth.

Do you ever role play as part of your sex life? No? Well, why not start with You Are God and I am Wife Number One (for a reason). Wear your garments but take a scissors and make sexy cutouts. Tell him it's ok because God obviously LOVES SEX and after he made Eve he said, "That's good!"

Nothing takes the starch out of rule-based stifling corporations like a little subtle ridicule.

Mormonism is soooooo boring. It's almost not fair to them to put you up against ...Sacrament meeting.

Anagrammy

Ditto. Only add that you had hoped that you had married more than just a Mormon.

anagrammy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Do you ever role play as part of your sex life?

Play Joseph and Fanny in the barn being spied upon by Emma.

He needs to think it out for himself. People have tried for years to tug at my chains and tell me that my church was wrong. I never listened until I met my fiance who slowly helped me think my way out. This is the tactic I am using on my family. In the mean time, I give them my full love and support to show Im not the enemy. Understand?

There are some similarities in my marriage.

I am very definitely 4th to my wife after god, church & kids. It feels like a stab in the chest just writing that.

My wife & I specifically discussed the scenario that Monson said to pack up and move to Missouri and it meant ending our marriage that she would leave in a heartbeat. (Her words were along the lines of - that's not going to happen, but if

She has her reasons that are somewhat similar to your husbands for believing. She doesn't want to know the truth she just wats to believe. However in her case she is "all in" in that she also lives the religion completely.

I think we are figuring out how to make it work. It isn't the only difficulty in our marriage but it is probably the largest.

We have basically agreed to the following:
1) We don't discuss religion.
2) I am free to do and believe what I do and believe regarding religion. She is free to believe and do what she believes regarding religion.
3) We both have equal rights to tell our kids what we believe because we are both parents.
4) I just have to live with not being her top priority and she just has to live with me not being the Peter Priesthood she thought she married.
I recognize I'm lucky, even the exception on #3. If I did not feel respected and free to believe and do what I want regarding religion I would not remain married.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2012 06:42PM by bc.

and that, ladies & germs, is Brought to You By...

a 'Family Oriented' church!

So much so that they published the Proclamation of War on the Family:
"We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshipped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny as heirs of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God’s eternal plan.

Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. “Children are an heritage of the Lord” (Psalm 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, and to teach them to love and serve one another, observe the commandments of God, and be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society."

:::.R.E.T.C.H.:::

They left out the part where the church is the real father of the family, and the final decider for the family.

Lyin' *(^%$.

In my marriage we had the reverse situation and my husband faked it for over a year. He didn't go to any other meeting but Sac. and would read or write letters the full hour. But, it meant the world to me even though he knew the church was Bull S*** he continued to endure. Fast & Testimony Sundays were the best, he would come home and re-inact the entire meeting for me...the humor brought us together & closer.
Finally, after studying on my own --I knew the LDS church was not true. When I told him the news --I think he was a little disappointed because it meant-- No more fast & testimony material to crack up over.

Have patience --if he's half way intelligent he'll come around.

I am not married. Maybe that is why I cannot imagine allowing someone to manipulate me like that. He is going to divorce you because you don't go to church? Contest it. I wonder how that will go over in the courts. He'll lose everything.

If it's a common law state - he'll be award 1/2 of marital assets and liabilities - in theory.

And another thing!...

What kind of "Christian" church would cause people to fight like that and to issue ultimata? (Is that the right plural? "Ultimata?")

The temple marriage I witnessed was a commitment to the Mormon church first, has that remained the same. I imagine it is scripted, it has been over 20 years prior to the changes to the endowment ceremony.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2012 09:04PM by gentlestrength.

DH could also mean DickHead. ;)

Hehehe

Yes, Dorothy, that's about what I think of him right now, but too lazy to write out the word "husband."

UGH, I don't know where this marriage is going. I've had issues for years, starting when we had infertility problems and the members said the most awful things to me. Complete clueless people who think having children is all about "worthiness." Yeah, right, ever hear of CPS? All those parents are so "worthy" they got to procreate, but I haven't read the BofM enough times, so God is preventing me from having a baby. Ignorant and rude people.

I'm finally putting my foot down about what I want my kids growing up believing all the guilt, shame about your bodies, sex that the Church shoves down your throat. No wonder people are so angry when they leave.

Oh, my dear, I feel for you. We have much in common. I suffered through the many indignities of infertility--from the medical procedures which were painful and intrusive enough without the vicious, snotty, arrogantly judgmental barbs that my "brothers and sisters" in the gospel piled on.

I even had another exMo sniff that I hadn't been a real Mormon because I'd never homeschooled or done all the MollyMoMother things. It's hard to homeschool children you can't have... and, well, the damn dogs refused to buckle down and master 'ritin' an' cipherin'. I'm a failure all around.

In TSCC, if your babymaker is broken, well, you must have done something to bring that on yourself because why would MormonHF deny one of his daughters the blessings of her most important purpose. I wonder if members in all parts of the world say the same hurtful things. We should compile a list. There are others here who have been deemed similarly "unworthy."

If a couple wants a baby, infertility is stressful enough on the body, the emotions, the relationship, and the pocketbook without TSCC and its uber-righteous minions pouring salt in the wound.

It's good that the guilt has lifted and you can focus on protecting the kiddo's. You can also fill all that space that was occupied with guilt with fun, fun, fun. The kids seeing a happier, more easy-going mom will be good for them and you.

Hang in there, hon. Holding good thoughts for you.

crafty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I'm finally putting my foot down about what I want
> my kids growing up believing all the guilt, shame
> about your bodies, sex that the Church shoves down
> your throat. No wonder people are so angry when
> they leave.

Mormonism is child abuse. To have all the guilt and shame put into their young minds, to have them submit to the brainwashing techniques of the cult and to have them grow up with the burden their father will go to heaven and their mother to the Telestial Kingdom with Hitler, Stalin and all the baddies, to have them think that masturbation and sex is next to murder on the laundry list of sins, to have them think that they are not good enough and never can be because the standard of the cult is so that you can never be good enough to please their god is shameful and clearly abuse.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 06:18AM by No Mo.

How recently do things have to have happened for your DH to consider them valid?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 01:40AM by Stumbling.

I was talking to him about JS, polygamy, and the lies about it. I said if JS lied about that, what else was he lying about. My husband is in denial and probably needs to see something VERY recent to knock some sense into him. He's BIC and his dad follows everything blindly so that is the background he was raised in.

I was in your same situation. Your DH is probably freaking out thinking that if you leave the church you will leave him and ultimately become a crack whore.

My DH had that same mentality. After I dropped the bomb on him, I just had to walk away and let him process. For a long time. It's very tempting to want to discuss everything once you've figured it out, but a TBM spouse is losing their shit panicking.

It's been almost 5 years since I came clean with my disbelief. It's been hard, but with time, it gets easier. If your DH is open to communicate like mine was, your family will find a new normal. He'll realize the world is not ending. That you didn't lose all your moral fiber as a human being. And that life can actually be very fullfilling and happy without the church.

You're in the toughest part right now. I feel for you. My DH was BIC TBM RM and very much in deep deep denial. But he has finally seen the light. We are both out and couldn't be happier.

Your difficulty will be your DH isn't going to want to do anything that makes him look apostate in the eyes of his Dad. It will be different when your Father In Law croaks. Be patient. Let him do Church with the same grace with which you want him to let you do not Church.

Everyone, everyone, I mean everyone I lived with and around were TBM automatons. Everyone was in perfect lockstep with the dictates and mandates issued from SLC. The world I grew up in was so white & homogeneous & republican & morgbotty, it made Finland look like NYC.

I broke out - mentally and then physically. So did several of my friends and siblings.

Your dickhead husband can to...

It's all a matter of what a person wants out of life (the red pill or the blue pill) methinks.

It sounds like you're responding in a really healthy way to your newly changed perspective. I would give your husband some time to adjust to the new normal. People seldom react well when first handed bad news. Keep your efforts slow but steady. Wind and water can wear down rock over time.

I like what Summer said about wind and water wearing down stone.

Good luck and be strong.

Yep, I think you're right - he does want to believe out of fear, as do a lot of people in the Church. It's his security blanket - it's been the one constant in his life.

It is such an irrational argument to say that what happened 100 years ago doesn't matter because that's what the Church is founded and based on. If that wasn't true, then the Church today isn't true - period. So, um, yea, it kinda does matter. If not for Mormons believing it is the "one true church", then it wouldn't matter what church you went to.

I have a hard time with those that refuse to consider an alternative to the Church being true becaue of their own fear. I mean, I get that it could be earth shattering for many, but come on, you want to live your life on a lie, a farce...? You'd rather just put up a mental block and persist in believing because it's 'comfortable'? I don't really get that, it's just not my personality. The problem is, I also have a hard time respecting someone like that, and then I kinda just cut them out and don't want to be around them.

Here's the thing though, at first, I seriously considered the fact that my husband would never come around because we had some really big fights about it. I was actually terrified that our marriage would fall apart or that I would have to divorce him. It was really depressing. I tried to stick it out though, have some patience, and use some different tactics. Mainly, I found ways to induce him to read stuff on mormonthink and then we'd talk about it. I had to actually make deals with him where I'd do X if he'd read a subject on MT and then talk to me about it. Well, so far (and I don't want to jinx it), but it worked. He came around to a rational way of thinking, but he was pretty freaked out at first. And, he still is because he hasn't told his family yet. When he does, I'll consider that a pretty big step.

Start walking around the house in panties. Gotta help.

I'm in a similar situation,

My wife and I just got married a few months ago, we dated for six years.

The church is already an issue. She is sort of a cafeteria Mormon. But, she see the church in her life and teaching it to our kids. I'm trying to figure out how to come out to my friends and family and just don't want it to be in my life anymore.

So, we are at an crossroads. I feel for you. Its like your opinion and the brain God gave doesn't matter.

Why is there no room for descent? Why isn't okay to say to each their own? It is tricky in marriage anyway, but I think the church has destroyed a slew of families. It creates division.

It makes me so mad that some organization that tells you how to raise your kids, what to eat and drink, what to think and what to do for other people, and what underwear to wear and wants 10% of your hard earned income (which should be your retirement).... Also has the ability to divide families and cause major stress, guilt, pain, fights and anguish.

The one true restored everlasting gospel of Jesus? REALLY?

The Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of the Mormon Church. The BoM describes events that allegedly happened over two thousand years ago. Archaeology is a branch of science whose purpose is to study such ancient history. Encarta (online dictionary) defines it as "the scientific study of ancient cultures through the examination of their material remains such as buildings, graves, tools, and other artifacts usually dug up from the ground."

The world's foremost authority on archaeology is the Smithsonian Institution. A few years ago, some LDS believers circulated a false story claiming that the Smithsonian was using the Book of Mormon as a guide book. The Smithsonian decided to refute that misconception by publicly issuing the following statement:

STATEMENT REGARDING THE BOOK OF MORMON
1. The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book of Mormon in any way as a scientific guide. Smithsonian archeologists see no direct connection between the archeology of the New World and the subject matter of the book.

2. The physical type of the American Indian is basically Mongoloid, being most closely related to that of the peoples of eastern. central, and northeastern Asia. Archeological evidence indicates that the ancestors of the present Indians came into the New World - probably over a land bridge known to have existed in the Bering Strait region during the last Ice Age - in a continuing series of small migrations beginning from about 25,000 to 30,000 years ago.

3. Present evidence indicates that the first people to reach this continent from the East were the Norsemen who briefly visited the northeastern part of North America around A.D. 1000 and then settled in Greenland. There is nothing to show that they reached Mexico or Central America.

4. One of the main lines of evidence supporting the scientific finding that contacts with Old World civilizations if indeed they occurred at all, were of very little significance for the development of American Indian civilizations, is the fact that none of the principal Old World domesticated food plants or animals (except the dog) occurred in the New World in pre-Columbian times. American Indians had no wheat, barley oats, millet, rice, cattle, pigs, chickens, horses, donkeys, camels before 1492. (Camels and horses were in the Americas, along with the bison, mammoth, and mastodon, but all these animals became extinct around 10,000 B.C. at the time when the early big game hunters spread across the Americas.)

5. Iron, steel, glass, and silk were not used in the New World before 1492 (except for occasional use of unsmelted meteoric iron). Native copper was worked in various locations in pre-Columbian times, but true metallurgy was limited to southern Mexico and the Andean region, where its occurrence in late prehistoric times involved gold, silver, copper, and their alloys, but not iron.

6. There is a possibility that the spread of cultural traits across the Pacific to Mesoamerica and the northwestern coast of South America began several hundred years before the Christian era. However, any such inter-hemispheric contacts appear to have been the results of accidental voyages originating in eastern and southern Asia. It is by no means certain that even such contacts occurred; certainly there were no contacts with the ancient Egyptians, Hebrews, or other peoples of Western Asian and the Near East.

7. No reputable Egyptologist or other specialist on Old World archeology, and no expert on New World prehistory, has discovered or confirmed any relationship between archeological remains in Mexico and archeological remains in Egypt.

8. Reports of findings of ancient Egyptian Hebrew, and other Old World writings in the New World in pre-Columbian contexts have frequently appeared in newspapers, magazines, and sensational books. None of these claims has stood up to examination by reputable scholars. No inscriptions using Old World forms of writing have been shown to have occurred in any part of the Americas before 1492 except for a few Norse rune stones which have been found in Greenland.

Thank you soooo much everyone for your responses. I gave me a lot of things to think about and advice I value.

Saviorself- Do you have the actual link to that Smithsonian statement. One thing I kept saying to my husband about why I no longer believed was because of no archeological evidence.

I'm finding out more and more how disgusted members are with the church. I think Prop 8 was the last nail in the coffin so to speak and people are no longer keeping their mouths shut.

I realized today how few of the youth I've seen over the years actually leave home and stay members. It seems more and more drift away after high school. Hopefully my family can be free before damage is done.

Oh, and I could write a LONG book about the complete havoc the church wreaks when it comes to couples and infertility.

http://www.csnradio.com/tema/links/SmithsonianLetter.pdf

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/smithsonianletter.htm

And here's an apologetic response with the usually Lindsay red herrings (this is of note because it clearly demonstrates that LDS apologists agree that the letter is legitimate):

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/smithsonian.shtml



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 04:29PM by bc.

Sorry for being so callous.

I have posted, several times, how I make it work with a believing husband.

One of my important points is to respect the right of my spouses personal beliefs and not try to change them. (Trying to change them is a whole different process and is usually done by a very slow, careful, patient process making the marriage and love and investment in family much much more important than the religion-- another post entirely! And there are no guarantees it will work.)

In this case, it's my view that the best course of action is to never bring up religion (never put them on the defensive) into the relationship. Keep you personal beliefs to yourself. There can be no fighting about it if it's not made into an "issue."

What someone thinks or beliefs in a defensive state at the time is not usually something that remains consistent.

Decide what you want? Is a marriage with children with two loving parents more important than a difference of opinion about religious beliefs? Did you "choose well" and your spouse is a "good person"?In all other respects is this a relationship worth saving?

These are serious questions that only you can answer. My answers might be different than someone else's. In my case, there was no way I would allow anyone or anything to destroy my home, marriage, family, over some quibbling over religious opinions!! I would not allow it. We are adults (long time adults when I left the LDS Church) and all the threats, and nonsense was just that... of no value or importance whatsoever.

So, you figure out what works in your relationship. I tried a new tactic: keep my mouth shut about religion, period. Never bring it up. ahh.... peace!! :-) Just be more loving than hateful, more respectful then nasty. (Works for me! ) :-)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 01:51PM by SusieQ#1.