The sad thing is, both sides are blithering idiots.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaithblog/55178197-180/gay-church-marriage-message.html.csp

Yeah, the concept of gays changing to be straight and marrying women is being challenged but the celibacy thing is almost as bad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 08:46PM by MJ.

Most Mormons want to pretend that gays are just icky people that they can write off, but Facebook is telling them that friends and relatives are gay. They find out that their missionary companion, HS buddy, or cousin is gay and it challenges them. They realize that their stereotypes of gays are off and it forces them to make a choice.

Some double down and become more adamant, but others repent and accept their gay friends and relatives, and advocate for better treatment in the church. It becomes even more difficult when the gay person is your child or sibling.

I once estimated with a friend that every gay person who leaves the church takes about 5 people with him. Even those who do not leave are left with a difficult issue about which the church has no answers.

I know some people will read this subject line and say "oh yeah, that's BS, they could care less about people, its all about dogma". But I'd like to remind them about all the emphasis on assimilating people and the activities this involves such as fellowshipping the less actives, missionary work, home teaching, visiting teaching, etc. Thus they have people on their mind constantly. Add in the complex networks of missions, Wards, Stakes, etc. and you have a lot of people networking and this culture is a mega-networking culture for sure. Sure it can be superficial but it still has a very human tone.

Now with Facebook and other social media becoming widespread these Mormons are coming face to face with multiple people that they personally know that are gay. Extend it out further and they know many people who have friends who are gay. For older Mormons (like the old geazers in the FP/12) this isn't as much the case and the younger Mormons see more clearly how out of touch they are with reality on this.

Josh Weed and Mitch Mayne are a couple of idiot tools. One wonders how they can even dress in the morning or otherwise function without 24-hour RN supervision. Especially Mitch Mayne. The guy is a flat-out gomer.

I've said it before and I suppose I'll just keep having to say it again: There is nothing more odious than a Jewish Nazi.

And speaking of tools, I hate that you made me click on that tool Peggy Fletcher Stack's article...LOL!

Gays are a distinct culture with a rich diverse membership that is represented from people from nearly every walk of life, just not the one that prefers vagina. It's a given that among such a diverse group, with so many brilliant and talented members, there would also be a sub segment of complete idiots.

+1.

"Weed responded to the criticism by disavowing the notion of "reparative therapy" and reiterating his view that the step he and his wife took is for them alone, not to be seen as a recommendation for all gay men."

If he wanted it to be for them alone and not to be seen as a recommendation for all gay men, then why did he come forward? Why did he say anything at all?

Is this a contest on who is the most righteous? Who is doing it correctly? Or maybe who is the most miserable?

I don't see the issue. Living as a heterosexual IS an option for gay people. One might think it is a bad choice but adults have an uncanny ability to make opinions for themselves.

If a gay wants to stay celibate and stay in the church, who cares. If Weed and his wife have a situation that is working, why should he stay in the closet about it?

There are just about as many degrees of sexual interest as there are people, and just as many degrees of sexuality. There is no way for us to completely understand another.

Sometimes it feels like this group is just as judgmental as mormons. Only it is worse because we claim enlightenment and we actually have it.

You are trying to redirect the trajectory of the judgement: the judgement is not aimed at the decisions any of those people make FOR THEMSELVES. The judgement is aimed at their babbling on about it IN SUPPORT OF Mormon institutional bigotry.

We already know the "degrees of sexuality" rule: the homos helped the heteros "get" that concept a long time ago out in the Real World. Perhaps you were unaware of that historical fact.

>>>"There is no way for us to completely understand another." BULL. $#!T. That's a pretty broad brush to use in such a tiny context, and you know it.

The very fact that Josh Weed has come out--to me, from what I've seen, is one step in the direction of him leaving her. I've seen it FAR TOO MANY TIMES.

I was with my ex for 11 years before he left. I know many women who were married 26 or more years--and then the husband left. You think Josh Weed is doing something wonderful? I also know those who are STILL TOGETHER and MISERABLE. One of my ex's friends from high school calls him every 6 months or so and says, "I'm barely surviving." You think his wife is happy. Have you looked in the eyes of the people who are trying to stay married? Even Josh Weed and his wife--look at their eyes.

Josh Weed, my prediction is--will not be in that marriage for more than 2 or 3 more years.

Oh sure, 29 years ago, I thought WE could do it, too--

You have NO IDEA what the future holds for these marriages. And how dare we expect gays to stay celibate.

This IS NOT the message we want to send to other gays.

The Regent University study sited below supports your observation, cl2. As I recall (since it's been a while since I read through the report) about a third of mixed orientation marriages break up almost immediately; another third end within about 5 years. I may be off on the timing, but my recollection is that the study looked at mixed marriages that had lasted more than 10 years and they were already a minority of mixed orientation marriages.

What often seems to be overlooked with most of the reports I have seen about this study is what the survey of spouses reveals. As a group, the straight spouses in mixed orientation marriages ranked their marriage experience as unsatisfactory. Why they stay has got to be similar to the reasons why TBM spouses stay with a gay spouse.

It is not just the gay person that gets hurt either. I know many people, gay and straight, that have been deeply hurt by trying this so called option. cl2 can relate a personal story better than I could.

Way too often such relationships destroys families, hurting the partner AND INNOCENT CHILDREN in the process.

It seems like the sides are:

1. Gay people
2. Gay people who live straight lives

Unfortunately for the gay people who lead straight lives, if the Church accepts gay people for who they are they are going to be left in a relationship they will feel increasingly bitter about.

Lots of angst, don't wish that on anyone.

As gay marriage becomes more accepted, the church will once again be on the wrong side of history.

If your religion doesn't accept gay marriage, find a new religion. Or better yet, make up your own. Worked for JS.

I find it difficult to understand the attempt to reconcile a religious belief that continues to preach against who I am. But, it took me 49 years (27 year marriage) before I came to the conclusion that the church was not true. My ex filed for divorce shortly after I resigned. I still have friends entrenched in their belief which I now find difficult to understand, but I do believe we all have to follow our own path to discovering the truths or lies.

I have a very good friend whose partner of 25 years died this year. He is working to get temple worthy so he can do his partner’s temple work. I can’t comprehend it, but try to remain supportive of his choice.

Back to OP, I have never been interested in the circling the wagons conference and find less interest in this year’s speakers. I enjoy socializing with organizations that already accept everyone.

Mormonism isn't about happiness or being yourself.
S'only a matter of time before they make commandments against sugar, puppies, & loud laughter (officially that is).
They will also push the modesty issue so far that they will all essentially dress the same.

Then they will have their ideal congregation of mindless drones who look, act, think, speak, & f*ck the same way.

This whole subject just makes me sick.

I think that civil rights has been a fight for every minority, and this is no different. At some point the church is going to have to realize that this is not based on any religious precept but on basic rights. I keep thinking that we have evolved socially to accept differences then something from the church or idiot evangalist slaps me back and I wonder how they could bury their consciences so deep in hate and fear that they lose all sense of decency.

Conflict among homosexuals:

Brucie: Less filling!

Bryce: Tastes great!

A 2011 study conducted by Mark Yardhouse and others at the Regent University Psychology Dept and published in the the journal "Edification: The Transdisciplinary Journal of Christian Psychology" reported that gays in long term heterosexual marriages reported their attraction to other of their same sex increased over the course of their marriages. It also reported that while the gay partner reported general satisfaction with their heterosexual marriage, the spouses ranked their marriages as more unsatisfactory.

The first link is to a short article on the study, and the second is to the on-line issue of "Edification" where the study is reported. Find the begining of the report on page 41 of "Edification".

http://wthrockmorton.com/2011/07/15/new-study-sexual-behavior-changes-but-not-sexual-orientation/

http://christianpsych.org/wp_scp/wp-content/uploads/edification_4_2.pdf

So in other words, as Josh Weed approaches middle age his horny for pipe is gonna increase, probably to the breaking point, at which moment he will selfishly and thoughtlessly act out in any number of unhealthy ways to the peril of others in close proximity.

Gee. That wouldn't be predictable at all. :::rolls eyes:::

We don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the fucked up Mormons who have become sexual monsters directly thanks to all this idiotic Mormon repression they keep pushing. Josh Weed, Mitch Mayne & co. are just a bunch of jizz-filled time-bombs trying to hold out as long as they can before they explode and take out everyone around them.

I should have added for anyone not familiar with Regent University that it was founded and is headed by evangelist Pat Robertson.

Mixed orientation marriages are not good options for gays, they hurt too many people.

I finally remembered the name of that nutjob Paul Cameron, the bigwig 'researcher' for the nazi Family Research Insitute, the guy who thinks gay sex is just so amazing everyone would do it unless we repress it militantly. Here's just one quote about the irresistability of gay sex:

'"It's pure sexuality. It's almost like pure heroin. It's such a rush. They are committed in almost a religious way. And they'll take enormous risks, do anything." He says that for married men and women, gay sex would be irresistible. "Martial sex tends toward the boring end," he points out. "Generally, it doesn't deliver the kind of sheer sexual pleasure that homosexual sex does" So, Cameron believes, within a few generations homosexuality would be come the dominant form of sexual behavior.'

That's what lies ahead for Weed and Mayne; ya know, doesn't that sound like a bad 80's pop duo lol?

http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/03/08/fear-of-hot-gay-sex.htm

http://www.ibtimes.com/anti-gay-activist-paul-cameron-admits-early-attraction-men-claims-obama-might-be-gay-video-698931

>>>"It's pure sexuality. It's almost like pure heroin. It's such a rush. They are committed in almost a religious way."

You mean sex isn't like that for everyone? They must be doing it wrong...

Its not that they're doing it wrong, its just that the poor hetero married folks don't realize their efforts are doomed; here's the wise Cameron again:

"If you isolate sexuality as something solely for one's own personal amusement, and all you want is the most satisfying orgasm you can get- and that is what homosexuality seems to be-then homosexuality seems too powerful to resist. The evidence is that men do a better job on men and women on women, if all you are looking for is orgasm."

Well look: I need to know if that's for real.

I mean, if there's going to be a huge influx of new club members I intend to start some business ventures up that will cash in on it.

I'm already developing a battery-operated personal-sized self-administered dick-tazer for all those guilt-filled homoMomos who can't leave the church nor can they leave their peckers alone.

Yur a genius, and you'll be so frigging RICH, LOL!!:)

The guy is an obvious closet case! No, Really!

http://pamshouseblend.firedoglake.com/2012/05/16/discredited-anti-gay-researcher-paul-cameron-ive-been-attracted-to-men-since-i-was-3/

"Discredited anti-gay ‘researcher’ Paul Cameron: I’ve been attracted to men since I was 3"

OMG that guy is so wishing he had some gay sex. That's hilarious.

I don't know xyz, for me I really really like guy parts, and since I'm female well...