My wife and I have tithing settlement tomorrow. Of course we haven't paid a dime. But we're considering showing up with a check simply because we ARE NOT ready to tell our parents. (Family temple trip on Saturday.)

So here's the thought: We moved end of September. We could pretend we make way less than we actually do, and show up with a check for the net of that amount covering October, November, and half of December, and declare ourselves full tithe payers.

In past tithing settlements when I had moved, the bishop only had records from my tithing in HIS ward. Do you think this sounds safe? Or might we as well stand up the bishop and avoid him until after the family temple trip?

They lie, so you can lie.

But if you don't believe in TSCC, why pay one red cent? Skip out on tithing settlement, why bother even going? It's for them, not for you.

Also, it's the TR interviews where they do background checks on you with other wards. They are supposed to contact the bishop from your previous ward if you're going for a TR and you've been in the ward less than a year.

Is it really that important to you to be declared a full tithe payer? Why not just not pay. Think of all the money you can save. Better in your pocket than in theirs.

Also, if you skip out on tithing settlement, which you can most certainly do (I always did without getting harrassed no problem), if you haven't paid anything, you'll be declared non-payer. If you've paid any money, you'll be automatically declared partial.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2012 05:34PM by Mormoney.

You don't have to go to tithing settlement. At all. Period. Your donations to the church are strictly voluntary. It even says so on the bottom of the receipts that they give you at the end of the year. You don't have to account for anyone about how much you give or don't give to the church. And if you already have temple recommends and want to keep up the charade, all the more reason to avoid tithing settlement. It'll ony give your new bishop more ammo to take them away.

Hmm thanks for the replies.

I only signed up for tithing settlement to avoid suspicion until after the "family temple trip". But of course, last minute they rescheduled their "family temple trip" until AFTER tithing settlement ...

So should we stand them up or come up with an excuse like "Oh, I have to work now"?

Another advantage of just paying them their stupid tithing is that we can renew our recommends come Jan, and I'd still be able to to a baby blessing in April (so we'd be able to buy more time before having to tell the family.)

A disadvantage is that it's at UTTER WASTE of money, and I'll have to keep being a ward missionary and teaching people about Joe Smith ...

No need for a temple recommend to do a baby blessing.

So you mean even if I don't pay tithing they'll let me do a baby blessing (Not that I care, it's for my family's sake)? What if I refuse to do a calling too?

If I'm not mistaken, the only pre-requisite for being able to do a baby blessing is that you're attending church and not on any type of church discipline. Tithing is specifically required for a temple recommend.

My brother in law was told by his bishop that he had to start attending church regularly for a month if he was hoping to baptise his son.

The bar is much lower for conducting routine priesthood ordinances. You will only need to pay tithing if you hope to attend the temple... not for baby blessing.

That is unless you have an overzealous bishop. When I was branch president while on my mission, I remember we had a similar issue with a branch member. He was allowed to conduct priesthood ordinances even though he was not paying tithing. Tithing was only a consideration for temple recommend interviews. As I understand it anyway.

You have the right to perform a blessing unless you have been disfellowshipped or excommunicated. I have participated in blessings and I have not paid tithing for 30 years.

I had my father bless my two sons, two years apart. I stood in the circle. I felt, and still feel 20 years later, that I did the right thing for me. My sons don't even know they were blessed. But it was a nice feeling to bond formally with them as father and son.

If I were you, I would not pay the tithing, decline a calling, and still plan on blessing your child. It need not be particularly religious. And it may be a nice moment for you as a father, not just for your family. It was for me.

This could become a slippery slope. In other words, there's always going to be some event or reason why you need a temple recommend, or to be deemed 'worthy'. That's the beauty of the business of TSCC - they know how to keep ya hooked. Although I understand pleasing 'the family', you may want to ask yourself how long you are willing to keep this up and at what cost to yourselves. You may need to come up with a bright line date for your own sanity.

+1

Yes, just tell your family and get it over with. Putting it off won't make it any easier.

You can just "forget" about the appointment. I forget things all the time.

Exactly!

Stop going to tithing settlement - there is nothing to settle since you do not owe them anything, not even an explanation.
Dear god, you are married adults.

No need to pay the Mafia,er, I mean the cult, er, I mean the church.
If your relatives want to throw away their money, that's their problem, not yours.

Don't give them any money at all

Don't pay the tithing. Skip settlement, do your family temple trip if you want to keep up the show for your family.

Is the baby blessing for YOUR child? If so, why would you fake the whole thing if it's your own child?

I know what you are feeling, as I have been there and may be in that situation again because I am still a closet exmormon, though inactive and everyone knows that.

Take control of your life, raise your family how you want, not how your family or the LDS church wants you to.

> Is the baby blessing for YOUR child? If so, why would you fake the whole thing if it's your own child?

That's a very good point. Yes it will be my child. I guess I figured it didn't matter since it didn't mean anything anyway. But now that I think about it, TSCC keeps tabs on blessed babies, doesn't it?

I was in the very same situation this past summer. We had our first son, and it made me really think about religion and that I should get back into the church, yada yada yada (this ended up being a temporary feeling, haha). We met with the bishop of our ward and told him I was interested. He said we'd have to wait a while, at least 6 months (hadn't been to church or paying tithing in over 5 yrs) before I would be "worthy" enough to do it. I asked my dad to do it. Now that I look back on it, I wish I hadn't done it just to keep the family happy. After all, it's my child, not theirs.

It's a very difficult place to be in, I know. I am still trying to decide if I should just stay inactive or resign altogether but I would be the only exmo on either of my parents side of the family, and we are a pretty close family. I'm scared of the repercussions.

Good luck with what you are doing. I hope you do what you feel is right for YOU and your child. Congrats in advance by the way!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2012 06:50PM by unmormon.

Your child will become a member of record if he/she is blessed but will become a non-member when 9 and not baptised. But still in the records somewhere.

If you do plan on going through with the blessing (I couldn't stomach it being an atheist) then no biggy I suppose. Doesn't mean anything anyway. You might want to skip the parts about serving a mission and getting sealed in the temple some day. Maybe stick to being happy and successful etc.

It's a tough situation, because you can't not do the ordinance without coming clean or raising questions by family. So if you absolutely must, do the bare minimum required to eak by. That most certainly does not including throwing away your money to Mall Corp.

One option... if you're trying to keep under the radar with TBM family... If you need that rec renewed... Surrender tithing for the last paycheck or month. You are then FULL tithe payers at that time. You do not have to go back and catch up for past months... So at that point, that paycheck, that minute you can declare full. On whatever basis you feel comfortable with (gross, net, after living expenses).

I think that now you cannot perform ordinances like baptism without a temple Rec. just another way for the church to control its members through the parent-child relationship. Temple rec requirement was a new development in the last fee years. I'm not certain blessing your own child requires a rec, but I'd be sure by checking the handbook before assuming.

I am operating under the impression that the appearances to family is more important than some amount of cash. I've been there, done that, and fortunately am in a lull for many years before the next milestone ordinance is required and I'm not ready to declare to my TBM extended family that we are heathens. :)

You can always say that you pay your tithing directly to church headquarters in Salt Lake.
http://tech.lds.org/wiki/Donations_to_Church_Headquarters

Yes this.

You can even say something about no wanting to show your works before man.

Very interesting. You mean I can say I "pay my tithing in stock" and the bishop has no way to verify?

Fascinating! You can even even lie your way around the tithing temple rec requirement!

(Getting this straight from your link)

"Donations in kind are donations of stock, real estate, or other assets directly to the Church. These donations are often made to reduce or eliminate the amount of tax that needs to be paid on appreciated assets ... Donations in kind are held in the strictest confidence. They are processed directly by Church headquarters, and do not show up on any ward records in MLS."

All you have to say is "My work gives me stock grants and I pay my tithing with those directly to church headquarters. I do it this way for the tax benefits."

Hmm ... Very tempting indeed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2012 12:25AM by jackjoseph.

You can even donate a single share of stock to get a real confirmation page, and then doctor it up, make a few, print them out and bring them in to tithing settlement =).

If you feel you must pay tithing to stay under the radar and keep that recommend, pay tithing as 10% of surplus. This is the way tithing was originally intended, per D& C 121. This way, you can honestly say you are a full tithepayer. Or you can pay whatever you want, and lie to them, because they lie to you.

There are all these little hooks that the LDS Church has to keep people in line. Sooner or later, we have to face the music.

I'm not going to judge your situation, because I don't know enough. You deserve a some time to figure it out, because this isn't exactly something to plan for. It was never part of our life plan to leave the LDS church. That will require finessing some of these issues with some little lies. I get that. But, its worth keeping in mind that it's really difficult to keep up the charade forever. Plus you owe it to yourself to live an authentic life based on your own values.

Don't give your money to a wealthy fraudulent church.

Give it to the poor, and then tell the Bishop what you've done.
Ask him to do the same with his money.

"Tithing settlement" indeed. Enough is enough.

Before you make a decision either way, have a read of the following link. It's very long but is the most eye-opening piece I've ever read on tithing. I guarantee it will transform your view.

http://puremormonism.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/are-we-paying-too-much-tithing.html?m=1