Fairly often people on this board ask the question - what's the best evidence that the church is false? Occasionally they are asking for themselves in working through their faith. Other times they are asking for information in talking to someone else.

I also suspect there are a number of lurkers who are here that are interested in an answer to this question - for themselves or for others.

(My apologies to those who just read this in my response to Fred's thread.)

So here's my answer to this question:

1) Logically - the Book of Abraham has no outs. There is no reasonable counter argument to "Joseph Smith fraudulently invented this." None. (I've read the apologetic arguments by Nibley, Rhodes, Lindsey, etc - they are all just grasping at straws.)

http://www.mormonhandbook.com/home/book-of-abraham.html
http://www.bookofabraham.com/boamathie/BOA_TOC.html

2) Emotionally - reading about Joseph Smith and his wives. It's not just that he has them - it was reading the actual journal entries of the angst he caused the girls, their parents, and their husbands that made it real. This is what emotionally made me feel like: "Joseph Smith was a true scumbag and I want to have nothing to do with his church."

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

Top 4:

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/05-ZinaHuntingtonJacobs.htm
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/23-LucyWalker.htm
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/26-HelenMarKimball.htm
http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/2021-EmilyandElizaPartridge.htm

3) Top 10 Mormon problems explained video. For some reason this simple, straightforward video presentation is the most effective thing I've seen at going through the major issues and just completely putting my mind at ease that it's all made up. (Note: the narrator of this video is a regular poster here on rfm - he used to post as "stunted" but changed his rfm name because he doesn't want it too directly tied this video - Dear awesome narrator: I hope you are OK with me disclosing that.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ac_fLUHiBw

Honorable mentions:

4) Mormon think - the site is almost overwhelming in the breadth and depth of information - Unfortunately it's also almost as overwhelming in it's poor navigability ;) But wow, it's excellent!

http://www.mormonthink.com/

5) I find the links about Utah statistics and wacky things church leaders have said to be VERY telling:

http://www.mormonprobe.com/index.php?topic=By%20Their%20Fruits

6) This article does a fantastic job of exposing the approaches Mormon apologists take and helps clarify things:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon441.htm

6a) Along these lines, this helps explain why some really smart people still believe Mormonism:

http://www.michaelshermer.com/weird-things/excerpt/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2013 11:20PM by bc.

It'll take some time to review all the links, but it looks really good.

I'll keep it handy for the day my kids finally get serious about their beliefs.

Thanks very much bc for taking the time to organize this. It is very helpful and informative. While I have been through each one of these links, I am going to do it all over again. Thanks again!

Bump - I'm not expecting much discussion, but thought someone may find this useful.

I found this from Mormon Probe. Talk about describing the Mormons fantastically! This is exactly why it works.

http://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php


edit: It's actually kind of scary because the Mormon church fits the exact description of cult word for word...Not even just parts of it. They do every single thing listed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2013 04:13PM by nickson.

That "BITE" model sure looks like the LDS model, nickson.

Yep - thanks to ragingphoenix for suggesting that I add that link to MormonProbe.

You should also look into Robert J. Lifton's "Eight Criteria for Thought Reform". It's a similarly telling model. How authoritarian groups use special methods to control and shape people's thoughts.

It's contained in #3, but my TBM dad really has struggled to explain away the Kinderhook plates.

He is currently researching #1, so I will have to update everyone here when he comes up with his cog-dis reason (because he does research heavily, so I'm sure it will be about the best cog-dis reason out there... and I'm sure it will still be insufficient)

It will be an interesting/drastic transition, but I think TSCC has only 1 choice with regard to #2: which is to say that God did in fact kill JS because he was a fallen prophet, but that the initial restoration was kosher, as was BY taking over (granted, then they will have their own set of problems with BY, because he had a longer tenure, and had his own set of problems from the very beginning [and even before he became their prophet]).

Have you talked to him about D&C 104 at all?

That's got to be one of my favorite gems of all - basically "Animal Farm" in scripture form.

1) The United Order has failed - so how can we split up the goods amongst the leaders?

2) Without making it too obvious to the members what we are doing.

3) Well let's write an agreement down of how we are splitting things up. But then we'll use code names and tell the members of the church it is an revelation given to Enoch of the Old Testament.

---

Complete 100% proof that in at least one case Joseph Smith lied about something being a revelation of ancient scripture.

No, I haven't. I wasn't familiar with it myself. I will research it.
Thanks!

I found "The Wives of Joseph Smith" to be very interesting

Lucy Walker gets to me more than anything else I've ever read.

Something about being a 16 year old girl, not wanting to marry Joseph, being told she had to make a decision by morning or loose eternal life, and staying up all night crying about it wishing she could blink out of existence kind of gets to me.