O.K., I get long winded. I studied Math/Electronics in College. I consider myself a 'fan' of history; rather than a historian or a social scientist. That being said, I found an old, very much out of print book that talked about the early days of moronism. It stated, in short, that blacks/negros/freedmen were full blown members of TSCC in their days in New York, Ohio.

When Joe Smith showed up in Missouri (then a slave state) with their 'freed' blacks, the local populous begun to grumble and say, "Here are those religious types, showing up with free blacks, they are a bunch of abolitionists." I know this is not an exact quote, I am telescoping several pages into one sentence.

Is there any 'truth' to TSCC's change on their attitude toward blacks? Did it always exist and Joe simply verbalized their attitude. I see no mention of the 'battle in heaven' or people sitting on the fence during a 'battle.' It would make sense to me that "Good ol' Joe" would conjure up a revelation to make TSCC more palatable to the local populous. Joe did it several times in Missouri, even going so far as to say downtown Kansas City was the original 'garden of eden.' I believe there is a branch of the moron church which still owns five acres of prime real estate for THE true temple to be built by the very hand of Jesus.

I am no longer a TBM, I just can't find any evidence prior to the Missouri days of any type of discrimination or full membership of blacks or mix race individuals. Am I off?

It is definitely true that there was a time before priesthood denial when blacks were not so marginalized. Joseph Smith ordained Elijah Abel an elder. He was later a 70.

Elijah was not the only one. I heard a Sunstone talk about some others once, but I don't recall the details. Google Elijah Abel and read the Wiki article.

Also check here: http://blackmormonfilm.com/
It's about a documentary--Nobody Knows: The Untold Story of Black Mormons.

I'm sure you can find a lot of info on the internet about all of this, and get references to some books if you want to take this further.

I don't know if I am posting this to one or all. So this is a thank you to ALL. Double thanks for the links/references.

Most of the 'links' I found when entering terms in search engines was, shall we say, way off topic or referred to the 1978 'revelation.'

I did not find it odd, when Horace Greeley, a newspaper owner/editor and one time candidate for President, interviewed "Bring 'em" Young, Young was solidly against 'emancipation.' Young also admitted there were members that settled in Utah that brought their slaves with them and they were still slaves. Young also said the 'church' was not going to require they be freed.


Next comment is very off topic. John C. Fremont was the first Republican Presidential candidate. The Republican party slogan was "Free Soil....Free Speech....Free men and Fremont...and end polygamy."

The best book to read on the topic is a book published by the church in 1960 called "Mormonism and the Negro" by some scholar named Lund. I found it in a used bookstore in Idaho Falls. It outlines the whole blacks and the priesthood. They were quite proud of the ban back in 1960 and defended it quite well.

This book takes the position that Elijah Able and several others while Black, were often thought to be white thereby they may have been ordained by Joseph incorrectly (another failure of the Spirit of Discernment). Elijah did have his priesthodd stripped after he served a mission to Britain by John Taylor.

I think it was hard to say exactly what Joseph's stand on Blacks was. He did ordain several blacks to the priesthood ( I believe he knew they were black) but also wanted to see them deported back to Africa....Whatever the case, the Church's stand crystalized with Brigham Young and did not budge until 1978. Between BY and SWK we have no question about what the stand was and why it was taught.

As for the "Battle in Heaven" goes I think you can probably find references to it on the internet. I promise it was taught as official doctrine though because I heard it even for several years after the 1978 "revelation". It was not questioned.

I think it was or is a bit nebulous when it comes to Joseph Smith & Co., but it congealed and then solidified under Brigham Young and stayed that way until the church found itself in a rough time in the 1970s. Whatever the case, there was no doubt during my formative years about why the Blacks could not receive the priesthood. It was taught frequently--almost each Sunday. During the time the church was in the news non-stop, it practically became a topic at each priesthood meeting. It was a plain and open teaching: The Blacks had not kept their "first estate" well, and were punished by being given the dreaded Curse of Cain, thus being clothed in black skin when they were born on the earth. It was written in the lesson manuals and spoken of from the pulpit. We were given frequent instruction on what to believe and how to discuss it with the unwashed and unbelieving goys.

Almost nothing angers me more than to hear leaders of TSCC insisting that "we may never know" why they church taught this. What DOES anger me more are the members who actually believe what their leaders are saying. It's all the stuff of, "We've always been at war with Eastasia!"

I'd say JS was indifferent more than anything else. He wouldn't have moved to a slave state if he cared. He made a few political statements about Blacks, but mostly he was way too busy trying to get in bed with ladies and swindle his followers to care about the most pressing issue of his day.

Funny how no angels with drawn swords appeared to him to endorse equality.