I see regular posts here about narcissists and Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It’s been helpful to me as I’ve been able to better understand people who have narcissistic tendencies. There are a few people I know who fit the profile, one in particular being a relative who can’t understand why her children don’t want anything to do with her. She’s always ‘right’ about everything, she’s never the one (in her mind) who causes problems in relationships, cuts people out her life for no good reason (including people who have been wonderful and generous to her), likes to surround herself with people who supply her narcissistic needs, has narcissistic rages, lies about people, goes on smear campaigns about others, and on and on.

The post that really caught my attention was this reply to someone last year from lostinutah: “Sounds just like my narcissist sister. Self-centered and all sweetness when you're doing things her way, but really a horrible person inside. I haven't talked to her since she hung up on me for asking her why she always called me to complain about everything, which was four years ago. My brother and I found out she was lying to everyone about how mean we were to her after we'd spent a lot of our lives helping her. He won't talk to her either, nor will her daughter. She tells everyone her family is mean to her. I used to feel bad when someone would say their kids won't have anything to do with them, but now I know that sometimes it's their own fault.”

From what I’ve read it’s hard to get a narcissist to get help because they usually won’t admit there’s anything wrong with them. It’s always the other person, not them. So any ideas? Or just avoid them and let them continue on in their miserable narcissistic bubble.

Protect yourself.

+1000

There isn't any known therapy that helps people with NPD. A personality disorder means just that- the problem is with who they are, deep inside.


The narcissist would have to think something is *wrong* with them to get help in the first place. All you can do is protect yourself.

Oh I meant to add- I've read stuff from a couple of people who have tried confonting the NPD person in their lives. They have reported that the narcissist generally calls the confronter a narcissist and uses the information to smear them. Teaching them the terminology just adds a new headache.

no

Avoid her. In fact, run! There is absolutely no hope for a narcissist. The only thing you can do is get out of this person's life. Even her children will have nothing to do with her. She's a bad person.

It sounds like you've met my mother.

Anyone who ALWAYS blames others for what they cause won't see a need to change but will feel everyone else needs to cater to their whims.

I wish I had a better answer but sadly I don't.

And people have to admit there's something wrong with them before they'll want to change.

The patient is really the one doing all the work. The therapist just guides the process and adds some insights now and then.

Would a narcissist admit she's a narcissist? Very unlikely. But she might admit there's something wrong with her relationships with others. The trouble is, she's most likely to blame them, not herself, because that's what narcissists do.

http://merrillmarkoe.com/enough-about-you-my-explanation-of-narcissism

>> What is a narcissist? Any time you find yourself living inside that classic New Yorker cartoon in which two people are dining together and one says to the other, ‘Well, enough about me. Let’s hear what you have to say about me, your narcissism alert bells should be ringing. A friend of mine explained the credo of the narcissist as follows: I’m the piece of shit the world revolves around.’

>> Narcissists are people who cover up feelings of shame and worthlessness inflicted during their own screwy childhoods by doing whatever it takes to maintain a false sense that they are very special and therefore not bound by ordinary rules. This requires them to surround themselves with people who will constantly pump them up by agreeing with them about everything. In narcissism talk this is called feeding their grandiosity.

>> Here is the short explanation for why they act like this: Narcissists essentially live in a world that is one person big because they never fully outgrow a phase of infantile behavioral development in which baby thinks he and Mommy are the same person. Therefore, when a brilliant, charming, elegant and grand narcissist honors you by allowing you entry into his or her very elite cadre, it is kind of like being annexed by an imperialist country. Your borders have now been erased. The subtext of all future interactions will be: What’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine. Welcome to a world where there is no you! When you are with a narcissist, their needs must become your needs. Its not enough for a narcissist to be the center of his own world, he must also be the center of yours. Your job is to serve as admiring audience or vent for his anger, Fan Club President or Incompetent Maid. If you are not mirroring him or praising him, you are proving you are a separate person and thus a threat. <<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2013 04:02PM by Stray Mutt.

Yep, I got a family member who matches this description!

Question to the group:

Do NPD's ever admit internally they're wrong? Is it that they cannot admit to others, or that they can't even admit to themselves?

I think they are honest with themselves least of all. If you know any narcissists, then you know how it feels to interact with them. They end up making YOU feel insane. They live in such a dream world, and if you don't buy into their same way of thinking, then YOU are the problem. They are never the problem and they truly believe that.

fallenangelblue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think they are honest with themselves least of
> all. If you know any narcissists, then you know
> how it feels to interact with them. They end up
> making YOU feel insane. They live in such a dream
> world, and if you don't buy into their same way of
> thinking, then YOU are the problem. They are
> never the problem and they truly believe that.

I'm still amazed when I read about NPD that this explains to me why I felt insane about my marriage. I couldn't get why no matter how many hoops I jumped through, it was never enough. Why discussions were a moving target that had my head spinning each time. And when I recalled her words back, I was called a monster for trying to manipulate her words against her. It started making me paranoid.

Thankfully, that is now a distant memory, and I have begun learning to trust people again.


Another question:

How often are children NPD when raised by an NPD parent (particularly a mother)? What problems arise from those raised by NPD parent(s)?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2013 04:16PM by Jesus Smith.

Your ex-wife's obfuscation whenever you relay the events of a past interaction is called gaslighing. She literally believes she is never wrong, therefore, if you recall the events in a way that doesn't reflect the perfect image they have of themselves, you are automatically wrong. It couldn't have happened that way because they're never wrong.


The narcissist parent chooses a golden child and s scapegoat. To be the scapegoat is a life of living hell. To be the golden child, the NPD parent sees you as an extension of themselves. Your accomplisments are theirs. Your value is theirs, therefore you are never wrong. This child runs the risk of becoming NPD if they never detach and nurture their own autonomy. Doing so, however makes you the npd parent's arch Nemesis and scapegoat.

Sounds very much like the mo church. No wonder it's crazy making! Run like (*@)@!

Continue to brag them up and feed their egos...if you can stand it. Don't condemn or criticize. Because, Narc. are notorious for schmear campaigns and bashing anyone who sais a negative word. They are vengeful and horrid and do not care how much damage they do to your life.

RUN LIKE HELL!...politely and without warning

One of the most profound things I've ever read here was poster upsidedown that said: "TSCC collectively is like a narcissistic individual." That's why we need to recover from Mormonism. Recovering from any narcissistic individual takes therapy. But recovering from tscc is like recovering from a giant narcissist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2013 04:56PM by FormerLatterClimber.

FormerLatterClimber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the most profound things I've ever read
> here was poster upsidedown that said: "TSCC
> collectively is like a narcissistic individual."
> That's why we need to recover from Mormonism.
> Recovering from any narcissistic individual takes
> therapy. But recovering from tscc is like
> recovering from a giant narcissist.


That's interesting. I once also compared the church to aggressive narcissism, with psychopathy tendencies.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,384746,384746#msg-384746

My therapist pointed out ways in which TSCC presented a model of Borderline Personality Disorder just a couiple of weeks ago!

Not a healthy organization to deal with.

Borderline sounds more accurate actually. Where NPDs are actually incapable of feeling empathy, BPDs are capable conditionally. Think of a lighthouse. It has a beacon that rotates and shines on different places. Lucky for you if you're in the beam of light, however brief, but god forbid if you're in the dark.

That sounds crazy, JS. And they make it look like you're the crazy one.

Children raised by a NPD parent don't necessarily end up NPD. They have their own set of childhood issues to work through.

I found this website interesting and informative.

http://daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/

TG

Thank you both Tahoe Girl and FormerLatterClimber.

I think being married for almost two decades to an NPD (who was the goldenchild of a NPD mom) had trained me to be a pleaser. It's hurt my dating life in ways. I'm still learning to avoid getting into a relationship with a passive-agressive type NPD. The obvious ones which are extroverted arrogant types are easy to spot. The mild-manner, chess-playing passive aggressive ones trip me up still because I live to solve problems for those I love.

JS, I've recently realized that I've been codependent most of my life. Very much a pleaser! Being aware of that is helping as I heal emotionally. There are good websites regarding codependency. You can see if it applies to you. Maybe not, but it's helped me a lot.

My best to you in your dating life. It sounds like you're going great so far. At least you're aware what to look for. I think that as you continue to heal, you'll find things continue to improve in your life and your relationships.

TG

Thanks, TG.

I'm seeing the golden-child/scapegoat being played out with my kids. As soon as I was able to get one of the scapegoats away, the ex picked another and he's now hoping to escape when the courts let him.

Your poor kids! I'm so sorry they have to go through with this. Thank goodness they have a loving and aware father.

Like anything else, NPD is on a spectrum and it's one of a cluster of disorders including antisocial and borderline. People can range with how much their lives, and those of others, are affected by the disorder. I can't quote you any statistics, but I think it's somewhat heritable. From what I've seen, one of my sisters is starting to become just like my mother. She will likely continue the patterns of child abuse, lack of empathy, arrogance, and disregard for the feelings of anyone else.

Most people respond poorly to suggestions of therapy. Some of those people could really benefit from professional therapy.

I say detach. If she asks you why you are detaching, be honest. Say that there are dynamics in your relationship that you're not comfortable with. Ask if she's looked into therapy.

I am all too familiar with the identified patient in families. It's all their problem, not a family problem, not something that everyone could work on. Of course some could work more than others...but usually there is enabling and enmeshment somewhere (in the really dysfunctional families).

Btw, it seems to be mormon and American culture to blame everyone else, to never take responsibility. So it's an uphill battle.

I've got one in my family, also a liar, whom no one can tell she's wrong about anything without being shouted down. The rest of the family has ceased having any contact with her.

There comes a point when you do have to avoid people like that for your own protection. I think they're like sociopaths--they can't be changed by therapy.

My narcissist father doesn't believe in therapy or psychology. He prefers testimonies and seer stones and ghosts.

I'm dealing with a relationship with a person who has very strong narcissistic tendencies and my therapist recommended Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) as the best option for him should he ever develop the self-awareness to seek help.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2013 05:36PM by Inverso.

My therapist says there is little hope for the classical narcissist. I'm married to one.