I think this is an important subject. Too many TBM's I converse with refuse to accept that Church doctrines and policies are exceptionally harmful to personal development, well being, etc.

In my case: chronic anxiety from cognitive dissonance and personality conflicts with orthodox Mormonism compounded chronic sexual repression, delaying healthy personal/sexual development and causing me extraordinary trauma before, during, and after my mission. Additionally, I was not sincerely empathetic and willfully ignorant of the legitimate challenges that face non-members (which in some cases foster undesirable behavior). I am now much more genuine in my "charitable" feelings for mankind generally.

Additional harm includes inculcation of chronic self-loathing, insecurity, and indecisiveness. These have affected my life in countless ways and detracted from my happiness, career progress, and relationships.

Making crucial decisions with inadequate information has also produced negative outcomes in a host of areas in my life (career, relationships, etc.), because I would have made dramatically different decisions for my life had I possessed a more comprehensive understanding of Church history, truth claims, etc.

How has Church membership/association directly harmed your life?

I alienated and rejected people from my life because they didn't fit the mormon mold. People who could have enriched my life I judged as soon as I met them. If they smoked, had tattoos, wore too many earrings, etc, I figured god wouldn't approve of them, so why should I? I'm so relieved to no longer carry the burden of such nonsense. I make a conscious decision to reject those thoughts as soon as they enter my mind.

Since I was such a judgmental person, I felt people judged me as well. It's still hard for me to share my insecurities and struggles with other people. I'm supposed to be perfect with no problems, right?

I would have to say the ability to maintain relationships beyond a superficial level is probably the greatest harm from mormonism. I feel socially stunted.

I think mental illness is not recognized enough in the LDS church. When I talk about mental illness I mean anywhere from people being literally mentally insane to regular people with mild disorders like anxiety or ADD. The whole one size fits all doesn't work for many people, especially those with mental illness and the problem is the church can make life miserable for the people. They get massive pressure to fit the mold and when they don't they are judged, disciplined, and possibly shunned. And this can also snowball with the individual's mental problems. If they already have mental issues, then feeling like you aren't doing enough in the sight of God, as well as the lash back from Mormons and church leaders can cause your mental illness to get worse.

Take for example someone who may be a good person, wants to serve God, and they try and go on a mission, and for whatever mental issues they have, they struggle on their mission and soon go home early. Unfortunately, in the LDS church people don't come around and give you a big hug and say "thanks for the time you served!" Instead they consider you a failure and a dissapointment for not serving your mission "honorably." Imagine what this might do to someone with depression or social anxiety.

And many people with social anxieties struggle with attendance. This isn't reflective of them being a "bad" person, but sadly this is how Mormons see it. You are not considered a "good Mormon" unless you attend church regularly.

And pretty much anything else in the church, if you can't fulfill your expected obligations in the organization (callings, missions, attendance, etc) you are considered a failure in the eyes of the church and God. This can wreak havoc on the person's mental state and only make it worse. And unfortunately the church and its members seem to be oblivious to the fact that not all people can practice the religion the same way and that doesn't make them and less of righteous follower. The expect everyone to serve in the same capacities or else they are judged as not faithful enough.

On additional problem I see with the church, and any religion in general, with people that have mental illness is that religion can skew people sense of reality even more when they are mentally ill. Someone with schizophrenia can end up blaming everything on the devil or god. Throwing the whole supernatural aspect of gods, satan, holy ghost, etc simply magnifies their problem. Even as a Mormon I thought these people would be better off not being religious.

Raised with the mindset that the proper role of females in the LDS religion was to marry young, have as many children as possible and be a stay at home mom impacted my decisions regarding education and career to a great degree.

Gemini, you are absolutely right. This has done generations of women (and by extension men, I suppose) untold and enormous damage and disservice.

How I was affected as well. I refuse for my daughrers to be affected the same.

Regarding my personal mental health, the direct influence of the church was a wash, I think. In some ways it helped; in other ways it reinforced some problems I brought with me as a convert. I think it did most injury in regard to my marriage and in "opportunity cost." Still, as a (barely) adult convert not a BIC, I see the choice of joining and the sequelae as primarily my own responsibility, an attitude that has increased the older and further away from membership I have become. I don't beat up myself for that, either, just try to understand the reasons for the choices I made and correct them if I can.

A conflict I always had involves so-called "priesthood power." I saw men exercising it and usually came away with a sense that they were simply using this as a means to assert authority that they didn't really deserve. It isn't a reasoned form of authority.. I mean it has no logical justification that I could become comfortable with through reasoning about it. It's just magic, a claim without evidence that some guy has the authority to tell me or others what to do. I never wanted to wield this power. It always seemed unjustified, and my personality is such that I prefer consensus and negotiation in relationships with others. I don't like to tell people what to do. I'd prefer we talk about something and come to a conclusion together.

The church always was trying to teach that I had this power, women and children didn't, and I was to use it to control or direct them. I don't want to.

I also realized that blessings given by p holders are just placebos, and I felt disingenuous participating in that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2013 03:32PM by rationalguy.

& both cousins, fathers & 1 brother with his friends were "peeping" voyeurs; international males looking for citizenship visiting me with my adopted father like a meat market

other ranchers' daughter did dance class I was sent to pick grapes with the workers, others watched TV I picked up almonds under every tree in the orchard alone after school & all the farm kids could see it- devaluing me in their eyes & community

it was ONLY some strangers' written words, occasional words on TV, occasional words when my adopted mother was particularly drunk and the 11th ward bishop I knew just 1 year- that had an impression on me- against the males in my adoptive family of what I was good for. My only friends my freshman year at high school driving into town from the country knew no other values- its a good thing someone somewhere said something that women should be treated better. One neighbor showed his contempt for us girls and women when he picked us up from band practice and took us home through town driving his elcamino slow as he threw pennies out his window at the hookers (unless there was fog & he had to drive straight home before it dropped or thickened.) That was my adopted father's best friend.

In a nutshell, the church is harmful because it teaches well-meaning people to do bad things by assuring them those bad things are good. Ignore your family to do your church calling = faithful. Pay your tithing and let your kids go without dental work = putting the Lord first. Stalk and harass ex-Mormons = friendshipping and seeking for the lost sheep. Rant like a religious nut job on social media = sharing the gospel. Look down on and judge those who don't agree with you = choosing righteous companions and good examples. Wasting money on large and spacious buildings while living people suffer and starve = building the kingdom of God. Shut down critical thinking and obey unquestioningly = standing firm in holy places.

Well, you get the picture. Basically Mormonism perverts good intentions and uses them for their own gain and selfish reasons. People can't see what has been done to them because their intentions are as good as ever. They don't realize that the outcomes are catastrophic and they aren't following Christ's example. They are following the little Mormon leader voice whispering in their ears "No, it's OK. Do as I say and all will be well."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2013 03:54PM by CA girl.

Funny, I was thinking about posting a similar question due to a rough week at work. My boss was very busy during the week and I had questions I needed to get answered paranoia set in and I start thinking he's avoiding me...did I do something wrong? Friday, we finally got time to talk and of course everything is fine. Then I'm left wondering why I jump so quickly to assuming that something is wrong. I think a lot of it has to do with being raised in the church but was thinking of posting about it to get feedback. So, here are some of the things that screwed me up:

1. As a female member, I was never allowed to make decisions without running them by a male priesthood holder first. The result is serious anxiety when I have to make a decision without talking it through with someone... anyone first. In my job, I have to make decisions so often I do my best and deal with the perpetual knot in my stomach which I really wish would go away.

2. Growing up I was told by my mother that girls can't do that and girls are smart enough. Of course, it was the things that I was actually good at. This isn't necessarily Mormon but I believe that my mom was so influenced by what Mormonism said was appropriate for a woman that she honestly couldn't see any woman being capable of anything else nor should a woman want to be capable of anything else. The result of this one is that I put incredible pressure on myself to prove myself...I'm getting old enough now that I'm starting to wonder if I'm prime heart attack material.

3. There is the fear of having caused offense or being judged which is so instilled that if I hear people talking but can't make out what they are saying the first thought I have is that they are talking about me and if someone doesn't talk to me for awhile the first thought is that I might have offended them in some fashion. Sometimes, I'm trying so hard to nicely tell people something that they completely miss the point which is particularly challenging when giving an employee constructive criticism.

4. Then there is the not getting treatment for ADD and other traumatic events. Perfect people don't have disorders therefore nothing is wrong with this child she just needs more discipline. As for the traumatic events, that is what the atonement is for. If I would just forgive and forget then I wouldn't be bothered by any of this anymore.

Perhaps all of this falls under the general anxiety which was already mentioned. Sometimes I just feel sad about what could have been if I could be free from these things. I am fairly successful in my job, I have a great family (DH and kids) and I have friends who like me (believe it or not). Yet, I seem unable to just enjoy what I have because of the constant anxiety. I am so tired of feeling guilty all the time.

Yes, they had my head messed up for a good 30 years. I still have LDS flashbacks.

Are you the same Bradley that's over on the "hat" discussion? If so, what's up with the "rabid Mormon hater" comment? An LDS flashback?

Response to censored post. You didn't see it. Was still pissed to have a good response to a TBM post thrown into the bit bucket. Then I read the forum caution about responding to threads that may be censored.

Basic misunderstanding about censor rationale, all fixed now.

If you're a woman, I must be spanked.

OK, I understand now... As usual I'm late to the game and acting on partial information.

Raised to live in fear. Fear of anything and everything.

Raised with my worth already decided.

Having no say in how my future would go. I had the misfortune of being very talented in the arts. Everything I did well was viewed as useless at best, and evil at worst. This caused me to have a very low self worth until I finally was so consumed by anxiety and depression I went and got help in my 40's.

I was denied education, relationships, opportunities, freedom from fear, religious choice, and the list goes on.

For a very long time I couldn't hear my own voice in my own head. All I could hear was the criticisms, judgements and controls of others. I didn't even know I had my own voice. It took me probably half a life time to find it and use it. It's like only being alive for half of your life. Mormonism stole my life.

I can't get that back. However, they don't get to have my children, grandchildren and forward.

...if you don't mind my asking...
& anyone else who has worked out un-brainwashing of the most heinous type...is there a specific way of getting one's self back?
...

For me it was a long process. I would say about 5 years of some intense changes.

First, I got rid of my abusive husband (nevermo). Then at age 40 I went to college for the first time. I simultaneously went through counseling.

Being very successful in school came as a shock to me. I had been convinced that I wasn't smart enough. Instead, I found myself at the top of class every semester. I was taking classes I never thought I would be able to pass. Math and science aren't my thing. With a lot of help from some great teachers, and a mountain of determination I did quite well. That probably did more for my self esteem than anything else ever could have. That proved to me that people were wrong about me. Way wrong.

I had to learn to recognize abuse. It was such a common theme in my life, it was my normal. I had to learn to stand up for myself. I had to overcome fear. Over and over again I had to do things that terrified me. I did that until I lost the fear. I conquered my demons. It wasn't easy.

Mormonism was also entangled in all of that. Once I made the changes I just mentioned, I never fit in at church again after that. I thought church would help me get things turned around. It was really more of a hindrance though. I felt like I had to dumb down, and keep quiet about things that I should have had a voice in. As it was, I spoke up more than most of the women. The male leaders really didn't like me. There were several women who were told they couldn't associate with me (By their husbands).There was one person in the ward who was in the know, and told me about the backlash against me. It wasn't long after that I moved across the country. Don't miss those people.

The next two wards weren't much better. I kept to myself, and didn't try to find friends. I didn't have much in common with anyone anyway. I found my friends amoung the nevermo's. I finally got online and figured out what the church has been up to since it's inception. Good riddance mormonism.

First off, I was a young adult convert.

I grew up with the adage: you can do anything you set your mind to. "Where there is a will there is a way."

I also was given the Optimist Creed on a plague as a gift when I was a young girl by my grandmother.

I grew up with the attitude of: Equal Rights!

When I joined the LDS Church and a year later married in the temple, I was willing and able to adapt as much as I could, to the culture and the requirements as I married an RM true believer.

Some of it was weird and strange at first, but for some reason, (probably many) I was willing to keep at it. Probably the main reason was because I was smack dab in the middle of Utah Mormon Culture and what other choice did I really have that was viable!
Plus I had a huge support system.

I have often said that I could never learn to "think like a born in the bed Mormon". I was always coming from a different view point, attitude, and experience. It's natural. I grew up differently.

I have found, especially looking back, that the positive, experiences, and constructive qualities I developed, and abilities and talents I was able to use, and long time friends I have made, as a Mormon out weight the ugly negative ones.

What I took with me is my family - with all of our quirks, and different belief systems.

Also, I left the religion when I was in my late 50's, all the children were out of the home. Some left before I did. That is a whole different set of dynamics than some.

I think my experience might be unique in some ways because of
my background, upbringing, my natural personality, and when I lived in UT (early 60's) and where (BYU Married Student Housing.)

My early years, especially, was a time and place that was conducive to acceptance of all peoples, cultures, races, religions.

Our children got a rather liberal (as opposed to orthodox) upbringing in the LDS Church. All have left it except one. We were strict about some things, and very liberal about others. We were not a fanatical religious family.

Because of the factors I listed, I have never had to deal with such things as: anxiety, depression, flash backs, etc, regarding my involvement in any religion throughout my life.

And, I am therefore, grateful, (partly because of my natural personality) for all of my experiences, "The Good, The Bad, The Ugly" as I have learned things that I would most likely have not learned otherwise.

And so, I keep on keeping on, especially now that it's just me in this little house! (Good thing I like my own company!) :-)

It's obvious that other people have completely different experiences, internalized the religion much differently than I did. Yes. We are different. One is not right and another wrong.

So to answer the question simply: no. I've gained more than I lost.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2013 05:17PM by SusieQ#1.

I have trust issues. Where is the tongue in cheek icon--I'm pretty sure almost all humans do. I just happen to have been lied to by all formative players in my development except my school teachers, especially the most important parents. I don't give them the pass others do, should know in the United States is accurate. There is plenty of information for someone using discernment and discretion.


They knew the temple used/s Masonic cult rituals. The only time I've ever suggested a death oath was on myself in the Mormon temple.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2013 09:15PM by gentlestrength.