As a lot of you may know, I recently chose not to serve a mission and take a long look at the mormon church and why I was having so many doubts.

I was talking to my mom, whom after many hours of explaining to her why I don't believe the church is true, she was accusing me and attacking me for telling her what I believe and why I believe it.

She kept on saying things like "I can tell the light in your life has become darkness" and "You're too scared to accept the truth, so you justify your doubts with anti-mormon literature" and "You think you're smarter than everyone when in reality you're just bitter and sad"

I don't handle confrontation well, so I just kind of sat there and took it. My life is obviously pretty depressing right now, because I have a whole new perspective about things and I have a completely different outlook on how I want to live my life, but my mom is just really hurt and devastated and she keeps giving me these guilt trips that I don't really know how to respond to.

Does anyone have any advice?

Tell her that she will have to accept you for who you are, and that you accept her for who she is.

The way that I handled it was to move out. I've never really gotten past being hostile when they get condescending.

You are being given the 'classic' treatment for trusting your own impulses and good sense, rallychild. Be true to what you see as the truth... after all, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." It won't be easy, but it will all prove to be worth it in the long run. Hang in there, Kid! Everyone here will be pulling for you!

Many of us have gotten the same type of reaction from our parents. They probably need some time to process what is for them a devastating shock (not that this should excuse their poor behavior and judgment).

If it gives you some hope, conversations with my parents for the first little while were very painful. After some time, my mother gradually stopped trying to win me back to the fold overtly and we began to establish a relationship without the church between us. It takes time, but it can happen.

My suggestion to you is that you let them have their feelings for now and get busy making your life happen for yourself. It might also do you some good to seek some counseling with a non-Mormon therapist (I know that helped me a LOT). It might also help you to get away from home as soon as you can and have some space to live your life without this constant cloud hanging over you.

Don't give up on your parents if you think they might mellow, make sure they know you love them. But also take care of yourself and make sure that you're working toward and independent life that will allow you the freedom to be fulfilled.

Best wishes kiddo :0)

And that's okay. Sometimes I think that the fundamental job of a maturing offspring is to disappoint his or her parents in one way or another. It means that you're developing your own identity as a well-adjusted, functioning adult.

Your mom is going through a sort of mourning process. Her vision for what she hoped for you as an adult had been blown. It will take her some time to adjust. Right now she's in the bargaining phase of mourning. She's thinking, if I just keep making a good, persuasive argument, you'll come around. She'll figure it out eventually.

So your job right now is to hold your ground with a loving, good-humored, yet firm manner. Act unconcerned and gently amused with her theatrics. Tell her to focus on the positive -- that you aren't in trouble with the law, running from debt collectors, or bent on joining the circus, lol. Tell her that the umbilical cord was cut X number of years ago, and that you are now free to mess up your life however you see fit. That she got her life, and now you get yours. Tell her that she's going to be okay. Disappointed with some of your decisions, maybe, but okay.

Show her the mature, well-adjusted adult into which you are developing.

> Tell her to focus on the positive -- that you
> aren't in trouble with the law, running from debt
> collectors, or bent on joining the circus, lol.

I am sure his mother would prefer those options to him leaving the church. In her mind those situations have temporal consequences, leaving the church has eternal consequences.

...the main objective is for the "kid" to convey inner strength to their parent. The son or daughter is modeling a rational response for the parent. If the parent senses that you are wavering or upset about it in any way, he or she will pick up on it and continue to try to work the situation. But if you present present yourself in a calm, focused, good-humored manner, you become an immovable object and the parent will come to accept the situation (or not, but there's nothing you can do about that.)

...and they can naturally talk down to you.
It'll take time to mature in your own faith, to the point that people know you mean business.
I think you're making the best of it already, being tolerant of their intolerance. Many, not all, TBMs will reach the WTF threshold of thier own intolerance, eventually.

I am so excited for you! You discovered the truth at such a young age--I wish I had learned all of this when I was 19. Your future is YOURS! I was 42 when I researched and exited mormonism in 2003. My life is happy, fulfilling and fun. Liberation at any age adds clarity, power and purpose to your life.

The night that I went to each family member's home to tell them I was leaving mormonism and why I was leaving, my mom said, "I can feel evil coming from you." Those are not easy words to take, especially when I knew that I was not evil and that I knew my facts. I'd never researched anything more thoroughly in my life. It was the most important reading I will ever do.

Angsty is right--get busy making your life happen. Your family isn't ready for the information that you have. I believe that over time, you will have family members approach you for help and advice on how to leave mormonism. That has been the case with me.

You have done the right thing. You have been honest and you are taking control of your life. Continue to show your family respect and give them distance if they are uncomfortable around you for a while. Move forward in a positive, progressive way. Be happy and let them see your strength.

The best to you...

"Mom, I'm sorry. I know this is hard on you and the last thing I ever wanted was to make you unhappy. But I have to be true to myself if I'm going to be any sort of a happy, healthy, productive human being. I know that you want me to be happy, healthy and productive."

And then just be your loving son self. :)

Even "grown" kids with kids of their own get this kind of reaction from their parents when they leave the church. It is a normal response. Your mother obviously believes very deeply in the church, and her psyche simple can't handle even the possibility it might not be true. As a protection mechanism she struck out in anger, which is what any normal person who is in such a mental state would do. It simply underscores how much she cares for you and loves you. She genuinely believes your life is going to go to hell and you have been tricked. What loving mother wouldn't try to prevent that? There may also be a little fear hidden in there, fear that because you reject the church you might reject her.

It sounds like you did the right thing. Listened to her, didn't fight, and let it affect you. It is OK to be upset about this, and it is OK to feel angry. When my wife got this reaction from her mother after telling her of her choice, I gave her this advice:

"Tell her Thank You. Acknowledge that you can tell she really loves you and is concerned about you. Acknowledge her anger, point it out to her and let her know it is okay to be angry. Let her know that you love her very much and you want her to feel that love. Then make the point that while the church is not for you, you understand that is how she wants to live her life. Let her know you'll support her in her choice to believe, and ask her for the same respect. Let out a little emotion and let her know how her words have hurt you because you simply want her love, regardless of your religious choices."

The healthy thing to do is to acknowledge how you and others feel, be honest with those whom you love, and by all means stand your ground in a loving but firm manner.

Finally, please remember to be patient. It can take time for these emotions to temper. It might be a few weeks, or several years. Just hang in there and keep trying.

I was told very similar things. Sometimes I took it and sometimes I defended myself. With time we have agreed to just not speak about religion and we get along very well. You can still have a good relationship with your parents. However, you may find that you have to be the bigger person. I often find myself biting my tongue or using humor instead of arguing.

I am a nevermo but isn't there a verse in the one book you Mormons use that says you are to allow people to worship as they wish. If so, throw that one at her. She is very rude to speak to you like that. When my daughter converted to Mormonism, I never would have thought to say such evil things.

If I had been you I would have walked out. Do not allow this kind of rudeness even from a parent. You set the boundaries and if they can't abide by them you have every right to speak to them very infrequently. Their minds are so brainwashed that the "church" is more important to them than you. Can you imagine treating your OWN kids like that?

> She kept on saying things like "I can tell the
> light in your life has become darkness" and
> "You're too scared to accept the truth, so you
> justify your doubts with anti-mormon literature"
> and "You think you're smarter than everyone when
> in reality you're just bitter and sad"
>
> Does anyone have any advice?

She has been brainwashed into believing those things. In reality she is the one who is scared. Most Mormons do not deal well with anything that challenges their belief system. They are told their beliefs are perfect and those who reject it are evil, misled, and full of darkness. Do not let her shame, guilt or bully you into returning to the church. If she is not able to discuss your feelings in an adult and compassionate manner then stop sharing your feelings with her. I am sure this is a big shock for her, and no doubt will be a source of embarrassment for her with members of the ward and other relatives who are believers, but stand your ground on your decision. This is your life. You are an adult. Do not go on a mission to please your mother. She is not the one who has to do the missionary work, she just gets to enjoy all the praise and attention from members in the ward.

First, you have the right to live by your mind, judgments, and sense (i.e., gut-level feeling) of what's right for you, whether your mother or anybody else agrees with you or not.

Your mother's attack was typically LDS: irrational and immaturely defensive. Pathetic, really. A reasonable child would have behaved better. It's the psychological result of years (decades!) of Mormon 'brainwashing.' Latter-day Saints are 'programmed' by cultic Mormonism to mentally flee from, ignore, trivialize, and condemn facts that don't support 'true' church doctrines and teachings. The standard - and dysfunctional and immature - reaction of 'Mo-bots' is to get irrationally angry, try to make the rational-thinker (you, in this case) feel 'bad' for what you said (the truth), and leave the conversation with their Morg 'brainwashing' intact.

For info. about how cultic Mo-ism 'programs' people, go to http://members.shaw.ca/blair_watson/

I strongly suggest that you don't waste any more time with your mother trying to get her to understand why you've chosen to cease participating in cultic Mormonism. Clearly, she won't open her mind. Be firm in your decision to not attend church or participate in any Mormon function (why waste your time/life?). You're in charge of your life, not her or anyone else.

Her comment that you're supposedly "too scared" to accept the 'truth' is beyond laughable! What 'truth' would that be? The conflicting versions of Joseph Smith's so-called 'First Vision'? (ref. http://www.irr.org/mit/first-vision/fvision-accounts.html)

The 'true' BoM, the book that science has proven to be a work of fiction? See:

Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church (by genetic researcher Dr. Simon Southerton, a former LDS bishop): http://www.amazon.com/Losing-Lost-Tribe-Native-Americans/dp/1560851813

"DNA vs. The Book of Mormon" (ref. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svfxSscxh8o)

Book of Mormon Tories (plagarisms in the BoM involving two American history books, one published in 1789 and the other in 1805, that were available to Joseph Smith): http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/magazine/pmm_article_full_text/211

Digital photograph of the title page of the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon that shows that Joseph Smith was the author and proprietor (he claimed he was the 'translator' of the ancient gold plates): http://www.inephi.com/1.htm

Also, watch "The Lost Book of Abraham" (more proof that Joseph Smith (JS) lied about his 'translation' ability): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcyzkd_m6KE

How 'true' can Mormonism be when the chronically dishonest LDS Church won't teach its members and potential converts the historical fact (truth) that JS made other men's wives, single women, and teenage girls young enough to be his daughters his plural wives?! (Ref. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/)

Is your mother such a lover of truth that she's willing to read the 'faith-disrupting' description of JS using his hat and a rock that he believed possessed a supernatural power (a 'seer' stone!) to 'translate' the BoM that was in the Ensign Magazine 17 years ago?! Here's the quote:

"Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man."

It comes from an article by Mormon Apostle Russell Nelson, "A Treasured Testament", that was published in the July 1993 Ensign (use the Search function at www.lds.org to find it and show it to your mother).

If you want to copy and keep a TON of 'faith-disrupting' facts, search for posts done by me on this board with links. You never know if your mother will - at some point - start having doubts about Mormonism. With the info., you'll be ready to help her.

You don't have to go on the offensive and attack your mother's irrational, emotion-driven 'faith' in Mormonism, but likewise you don't have to tolerate ANY crap from her - no guilt-trips, no attempts to make you feel fearful about what will happen to you if you leave the Morg - you're not obliged to tolerate ANY Mormon nonsense.

You'll find over time that as you define boundaries with your mother by making it clear to her what you will and will not tolerate in terms of her behaviour, you'll 're-educate' her about how to interact with you. Never forget: We teach people how to treat us. You have the right to be treated decently. The more you stand up for yourself, the more you'll find that any trouble you've had with conflict in terms of fear, anxiety, etc. will decrease and eventually disappear. You will have completely 're-programmed' and healed yourself from the cultic effects of Mormonism.

I promise you that such a transformation IS possible because I've done it as have 10's if not 100's of 1,000's of former Mormons.

Continue to be authentic/true to yourself whether my mother or anybody else likes it or not. You have the rest of your life to enjoy free from cultic Mormonism!

Best wishes!

I had a friend recently go through something a little similar. He came to me asking for help, being the only exmo he actually knew.

He is a theater major, so I figured I'd play into it a bit. I jotted some things down on a piece of paper and handed it to him.

"Here is your scene and script. It's loosely built, so there's no memorizing and feel free to add-lib."

On the paper was:

>Your mom is rambling on about how horrible a person you must be for having a mind of your own.

Mom: Rabble rabble rabble... ZomG! Church is troo! Rabble rabble rabble.

>You stand, face her and make eye contact.

You: I love you Mom.

>You calmly walk out of the room as she tries to digest the absurdity of her rant.

>End Scene

I took it from that video called "Instruction Manual for Life", but it seem to work decently. He and three other people have used that method and while things aren't great between the parents and kids, they're better than they were.

I can't really say I've been where you are right now, I was a convert and my parents were really happy for me when I decided to cut the cult off. They had even threatened to cut me off when I at one time wanted to go on a mission (back before I found out what was under the mormon whitewashing). My fiancee was distraught when I told her I was leaving it, and promptly called off the engagement. She flip-flopped for a couple months, but eventually was reigned in by her abusive family and hauled off to Utah.

Losing the woman I loved more than anything was not easy, frankly it broke me. I've worked every day to move beyond it all, and I've got good days right along with the bad ones. Things do get easier as time goes by. You are a strong person rallychild, you can move forward. If you stumble, we are here to catch you. We all share a pain, and we all support each other through it.

Hey do we have the same mom. When I told my mom a few months ago I won't be going to church anymore she started having this amazing power of reading my mind. Well it least she thought she could read my mind I guess but I got the same accusations you got. Good for you for sticking up for yourself. I wish I did it before I served a mission.

I remember it like it was yesterday. I was 15 years old (I'm 31 now) and told my mother that I no longer had a testimony of the church. I remember staring at the wall in her room feeling helpless while she sobbed and asked me what my grandfather would think about what I was saying (he had recently passed away). She has always been good at laying on a guilt trip and she was really outdoing herself this time. I am one of the youngest of a large family of mostly boys and was just the latest of my brothers to decide we didn't believe in our parent's teachings. Mom blamed herself for failing, blamed my brothers for leading me astray, blamed me for not trying hard enough to gain a testimony, the hurt and blame continued on for an eternity but I held fast to my convictions.

It was the best decision of my life. I was coerced to become active again a year later but it didn't last as I knew I held no belief in any of the major tenents of the LDS faith. Fast forward 16 years and I was being constantly bothered by local members, ward clerks, home teachers, etc. so I finally resigned officially from the church. That was another one of the great decisions of my life. No more zealous neighbors showing up on my porch during dinner time or while I'm enjoying the company of my wife and 2 great kids (who show no ill effects of being raised in a house absent of religious dogma).

Stick to your guns OP. Don't let the guilt trips phase you. It is your live and your happiness at stake here, no one elses.

I'd be proud of you.

For a year before I told her, my mom and I would have pretty good conversations about all kinds of church topics like polygamy, various little known facts, the truth behind MMM, and for Christmas my Grandma bought her the JS Papers, so I pointed out that there were other versions of his vision, and that one of them should be in there. I read to her the 1832 version which shocked her deeply, and we discussed how the scriptures JS produced supported that version above the official account.

Heck, we talked about everything. But then one day, I had to tell her what had been happening and that we had left the church because of what I had found.

The first thing out of her mouth was to ask if I was still living the WoW or if I had gone back to using drugs. Why yes, mom- How could I possibly pass up the chance to destroy my life again?

And my sister was asking everyone if they knew what sin I might be guilty of committing, so the whole family was guessing and speculating.

However, as things do, she has come to accept that I have done my homework and drawn my conclusions based on factual evidence that she does not want to hear. Still though, when I was presumed to still be faithful we had great and deep conversations and she was really on board with me. But now that I am an evil apostate, every word spoken during those days was a filthy lie.

Nowadays, we don't talk much and especially about religion, but she knows that I am not on drugs, my family is still happy and that leaving the church has actually made me happier. And I think that that is making her wonder about her own place in the church.

So in the end, just remember to set a good example. People see what we have and they want it too.

rallychild Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> of sat there and took it. My life is obviously
> pretty depressing right now, because I have a
> whole new perspective about things and I have a
> completely different outlook on how I want to live
> my life,

embrace your new perspective and be happy about it! i know i am! =) you're free =)

> but my mom is just really hurt and
> devastated and she keeps giving me these guilt
> trips that I don't really know how to respond to.

she's just scared and sad herself. give it some time. dont let the church mess up your family =)

I agree with the I love you skit. My Mom is so good at guilt trips she can still get my TBM Sisters in their 50s to bend to her will at the drop of a hat! She has no power of guilt over me, because I took that power from her years ago. I simple waited for her to finish the lecture with the usual teary eyed testimony, and pleading to come back, and said calmly with a smile, "I love you Mom, but I'm not changing my mind. we aren't going to have this discussion again". And I stuck with it! I moved out(18 years old) but would visit with her maybe once or twice a month, and anytime the "come back to the church" subject came up, I immediatly stood up, told her I loved her(or dad) and left, even if it was in the middle of dinner or something. The subject came up less and less, until not at all, anymore. My relationship with my parents over the next 18 years became so good that My dad(Stake Pres. at the time I left, and Patriarch after that) and I went into business together, and on his death bed, 2 years ago, he said to my nevermo wife "You don't need to ever join the mormon church to earn my love, you already have it!" (which of course made us bawl like babies). Take away their power, stick to your guns, and things will change!

ps Every family has one or two brothers or sisters, or inlaws, that think just because Mom and Dad have given up, I can still challenge him and his beliefs, and save the day! When it happens calmly tell them that that is ok with you if they want to have this discussion, to call a Family Home Evening, with their young children in attendance, and we will talk about everything that lead me away from the Morg. They will take a step back, and ask why the kids...reply "If you leave me and my beliefs alone, I will leave you to yours,..If you feel it nescassary to indoctrinate me, then you and your kids are fair game for me..." I've never been taken up on the offer. (5 nephews and 2 neices have left the church over the years, but not because I said anything to them, just because they saw it was possible)

Thank you everyone so much for your advice and kind words! Last night when I posted this, I was on the verge of tears depressed, my life right now is pretty shitty and the guilt is so overwhelming. Reading all these posts gives me hope and I am so grateful to have a community that supports me and is cheering me on!

In the emotional abuse literature, the offense is called "mindreading", and it's basically this: somebody presumes to know your real thoughts or motivations, and has the nerve to tell YOU what you think in an effort to badger or control you. And I think in this case, it's also because she is protecting her OWN world view that includes Mormonism. She's probably scared of failing as a mother or of what will happen to you. Maybe you could get her to talk about those things, with the understanding that you can be sympathic to her feelings, but SHE'S the one responsible for dealing with the new reality because she doesn't get to pick your beliefs. Don't let her guilt you.

you wrote:
"She kept on saying things like "I can tell the light in your life has become darkness" and "You're too scared to accept the truth, so you justify your doubts with anti-mormon literature" and "You think you're smarter than everyone when in reality you're just bitter and sad".

Honestly, I think the best response was the one to say "Mom, I love you" and walk away. Do not engage.

And for your well-being, I would recommend reading up on emotional abuse. Mormons tend to be well-practiced in the art of mind-reading, manipulation, guiltifying, threats (for this life and the next) emotional withdrawl (shunning), and all kinds of hurtful behavior when you don't conform. And the worst part is that they think they are doing it for your own good. A warped world view is a common characteristic of abusive people. And we know Mormonism is warped.

Some book recommendations: "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassan [as I see it, a cult is just institutionalized abuse and control, and this book talks about how cults gain that control].

"Controlling People" by Particia Evan [and she has some other really good books on emotional abuse].


What I found is that by educating my self on controlling/abusive techniques, it made me less vulnerable. I could see what was happening and not play into it. Sometimes it can be almost humorous.

I am not in the same place as you because I am 53, but when I left the church and subsequently my TBM wife(for other differences not church related) my mom began telling my uncle and other relatives that I had lost the light in my life and that I was dark and evil.

I replied with something like this:

Mom I am so disappointed in you. First, you are my mother and you are supposed to love me unconditionally. I have always felt loved by you and I never felt like your love was based on my religious affiliation, I am sad to know that it was.

Second, do you think I am an imbecile? Do you not think I can think for myself and make decisions based on logic and intelligence? I think you know that I am an intelligent person. I think you know that I have studied the church's teachings and scriptures and know them better than probably 99% of the general membership of the church. I am not stupid and I have not made this decision lightly. My decision to leave the church and all that I have believed my entire life up to this point was based on many many hours of study, reviewing the facts, and seeing the evidence with my own two eyes. I did not walk away from what I had believed as eternal life with my family and all that the church taught me was possible on a whim. I do not expect you to believe as I do, I have not tried to convince you that my way of thinking is correct, but I do expect you to respect my intelligence and my decision and treat me with the same respect you do your friends who are not members of the church.

And lastly, how can you say I am evil, that I have lost the "light"? I am the same person I have always been. I have not changed at all other than I am so much happier now than I have ever been and I no longer live each day with guilt about the things I am not doing that the church said I should be doing to get all those wonderful promises it makes. It is true that I have left (ex-wife) but that had nothing to do with my belief or non belief in the church. I just finally grew a backbone and decided to stop living a miserable life just to stay married to someone who has obviously never loved me, and who has not made me happy in more years than I want to even consider. I got tired of living a miserable unhappy life, both in the church, and in my marriage. But other than being happier than I have been in at least 30 years, I am the same person I have always been. I am loving and caring and you know that, and for you to tell people that I have become evil and dark and whatever else you have been telling them is simply wrong and not the actions of a loving mother.

I am sure I embellished a lot more than that because my letter to her was 5 pages long, but that is the cliff note version. The bottom line is that my mom and I are closer now than we have been in a very long time, and possibly ever, because she does not judge me now. She loves me for who I am and the church has no bearing on how she feels about me. But it took me getting angry and telling her straight forward how I felt. I think the most important thing I did right was when I wrote to her I did not do it in an accusatory or attacking way. I was very neutral in the way I worded everything, and I put my decision about the church directly on my shoulders not blaming anyone else for my decision but made it clear that my decision was based on fact and logic not feelings and emotions.

Anyway, like I said at the beginning, my case is much different than yours, but I think you are going to have to get a little tough with her and let her know why you have made this decision, and that your mind is set and will not change. Tell her that she is going to have to love you for who you are because this is who you are now and if she wants you in her life she is going to have to accept that. Good luck.

rallychild Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She kept on saying things like
> "You think you're smarter than everyone when
> in reality you're just bitter and sad"
>
> I don't handle confrontation well, so I just kind
> of sat there and took it.

Hang in there Rallychild. We're rooting for you.

Also, you are a good example to my nearly 18 yr old son, who is a closet agnostic dealing with his TBM controlling mom. Like you, he too is told he acts smarter but is just a depressed teen. And he too avoids confrontation about it. I will keep track of your experience and hope it helps him too.

Take the position that it's none of their business. Do what other people do --- keep your privatee beliefs PRIVATE!!!
Refuse to engage, refuse to answer questions.

This amounts to empowering yourself, taking your power back and not becoming a target for their religious disappointments. You can't be what others want you to be anyhow.

Look for people who will be supportive, loving, kind, that don't bring up religion that is none of their business anyhow.
Stay out of discussions with people who would put you down, chastise you, question your integrity.

Be happy, content, and show you have confidence in your decisions! Walk with pride and self confidence and self respect.

That's my advice. You asked, so this is it! :-)

To the fmaily and friends: this is what I expect of you:

The Articles of Faith - #11:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Might want to post it on the frig! :-)