I was BIC and recently saw the light. Quit the church a few years ago.

I'm discovering who I am. One of the most painful things has been coming to terms with sex. I feel as though I never got the chance to experiment or really enjoy all that sex has to offer.

TSCC ruins sex lives IMHO. My wife has never been comfortable with her body. Bishop's daughter. Very "modest" in her attire. We were like two virgins who knew little when we got married. I am very horny. She never has been horny. I love everything about sex. She is okay with it.But it is a bother to her. I knew on our wedding night that I had made a mistake sexually. 35 years later...kids grown, now we are aging. We have had very little sex for 5 years. Not a good sign of a strong marriage.

So I find myself acting out. It is scary. It is like I am watching myself act out. I've had affairs. I feel horrible. But I can't stand a sexless marriage situation either.

I wish to god I had been able to have sex before marriage. If I had I wouldn't have married her. Anyway, any advice? Anybody else go through this? It seems that when the stranglehold of TSCC is gone people act out. I'm watching myself do that. Very scary.

I haven't acted out, but I know exactly how you feel.

Is your wife still TBM or did she leave with you?

Have you had conversations about sex in the marriage and how did that turn out?

Have you tried non-LDS counseling?

I would imagine that most inexperienced young lovers make mistakes right at first. That's normal. What doesn't seem normal to me is to continue punishing your husband for the next 35 years because he made one mistake.

Without needing to know exactly what the mistake was (although it could be relevant), I am more interested in how you dealt with that mistake as a couple. Where I'm going is, can the two of you talk about intimate things? Are you able to listen to each other with empathy? Is there fair give and take or is your wife just making the decisions about frequency (and whatever else) for the both of you?

I am really sad to read something like "She has never been horny." That is heartbreaking that someone has been so damaged by brainwashing that she doesn't even have a normal libido and doesn't appear to desire sex, at all, ever. I understand that some people are asexual, but that is a very small minority. More likely, this is a result of emotional and spiritual abuse (and possibly even physical or sexual abuse). I feel really sorry for anyone who never learned to enjoy sex. It's not the be-all, end-all pinnacle of all that is good in the universe, but it's right up there in the top 10. What a horrible, tragic shame that cults co-opt people's sexuality and rip it away from them.

I understand exactly what you mean. I've talked to a lot of male friends who are in the same position and have "had" to step outside of the marriage for satisfaction.

I am female and experience similar circumstance. My TBM spouse and I are currently separated and I have no plans to reconcile. I have tried to get away from him and his TBM ways for years.

Anyway, this isn't just a male "problem". I too believe the "church" ruins marriages and the ability to have a healthy relationship!!!!!!

I would never condone stepping out, but I heard this stated once:

"Sex is supposed to be between married couple. If you aren't going to make it be part of our marriage, then neither should I"

I think that this is to mean, one spouse can't demand fidelity and then not hold up their end of the agreement. There are definitely exceptions to that, but under normal circumstances.

Also, Pre-marital sex is not necessarily a good indicator of the everchanging need for sex during a lifetime, but I do think that a one time roll in the hay SHOULD be part of the dating / getting to know you phase.

laytonguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...but I do think that a one time roll in
> the hay SHOULD be part of the dating / getting to
> know you phase.

I agree with your thinking, but I disagree with the "one time" specific. That may be "enough" for a male (I don't know; I guess it depends on the male), but it most absolutely is NOT "enough" for a female, especially if it is her FIRST time. From a female viewpoint, and (I think) most of the time, "the" first time is awkward, and scary, and just not conducive in any way to a good SEXUAL experience. Mostly (if I, as an individual female, am any representative of females at large in this), you're worried about what your partner is thinking...not what you are FEELING except when it's painful (and especially if no one told you about the real need for lubrication of some kind with first experiences which include condoms!).

And for me, personally and lifelong, I'm just not "me" on first times with ANYONE. Took me a lot of years and experience to realize why, but I think I know: When I am having sex/making love with someone for the first time, I am reflexively focused on THEM, and how THEY are responding. I need to get a "read" on them, and once I have that, then I am able to be "myself." The person I am, in any "first time" experience, bears no relationship whatever to the person I am with subsequent experiences with that same person, and this is just the way I am wired. I now accept it as being a valid part of "me."

In my opinion, it is important to have not only that "one time," but a bunch of other times as well, so that both people can relax into their "real" (not "dating") selves and actually, truly, get to know each other and are able to determine whether they are a good match for each other.

It does take at least some period of time to do this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2013 05:36PM by tevai.

It was really tough for us for the first few years of our marriage. Except we had the opposite problem, the one no one talks about. My husband had a low sex drive and I had the high sex drive... besides that, it took us years just to figure out how to pleasure each other.

It's embarrassing really. 2 mormon virgins is kind of a sex disaster.

Thankfully, things have gotten alot better for us, of course it ebbs and flows (such is life), but it REALLY took a toll on our marriage in the beginning, and I wasnt sure we would last.

Cheaters suck! (And so do liars, incidentally.)

You and your wife obviously have disparate sex drives.

Claiming horniness doesn't excuse bad behavior.

Claiming out-of-body uncontrollability doesn't excuse bad behavior.

Claiming your wife hates sex doesn't excuse bad behavior.

Get a divorce, NOW! Be as kind as you possibly can. No need to grind your wife's face into shame and despair. But staying with your wife is wrong, for all the wrong reasons.

Come on dude, have a little decency and courage.

Bad behavior is denying your partner (his wife). Sex outside your marriage is not a bad thing? Pause for a moment and consider that...is it right? Not sure who's rules you are following, but it is better to be happy and married, even if you get a portion of your physical and psychological needs met elsewhere.

If the sex "need" was purely physical, then one could simply jack off. It isn't. Sex is physical, but is also about the feeling that you are desired in that way. Sex has a way, to the exclusion of all other ways, of making a person feel desired. I love my wife, but if she doesn't desire me sexually, I go and find someone who does. In the end, I'm happily married and get 5% of what I need outside my marriage while letting the other 95% come from inside.

I have found this formula to work well. I've spoken with other people who agree. I don't bring home disease and I travel enough for a variety of business and personal reasons to be discreet and not take time away from family stuff.

I'm neither depressed nor guilty (used to be til I put all the pieces together) and if my wife really wanted to know, I would tell her. Keep in mind that I love sex, and to her it is a chore. We've tried counselling, and I've romanced, begged and seduced her, and all that led to a feeling of rejection for me or a feeling that i was buying sex frommher by my actions, which made her a repugnant prostitute. I don't want to think of my wife that way, so I moved past my own guilt and misgivings, and have "protected" my wife from the need to feel guilty or do Sexual things she doesn't desire. Makes me the magnanimous one, in the end.

When you step out of the Mormon box, step all the way out. Don't bring home an std or an unwanted child. Don't hurt anyone. But remember to live...this is your only shot at that!

If you and your wife agreed to a monogamous relationship, then that's that.

If you want to have sex with more than one person, then get a divorce.

If you want to have sex with more than one person, and be married, find a partner that is accepting of an open relationship.

If you want to be married to a person who's libido better matches your libido, then by all means, do so.

But staying with somebody because they meet some of your needs, just not all of your needs, and then getting those other needs met outside of the relationship, without the knowledge of your wife, is deceitful, arrogant, and narcissistic.

Bet neither one of you have the courage to tell your respective wives that you're having sex with other women, because, well, they just don't give it up like they should...

You do know we live in the 21st century, correct?

Oh, and I would love to see either of your reactions if you ever found out your wives were having sex with somebody other than, gasp, wait for it, you and your throbbing adonis penis. (Especially if they were having sex with another woman, not another man.)



Naw, you're a coward too.

1. Name a relationship where every need is met. (doesn't exist).

2. Your rules have so little meaning to me that I literally could not care less what you think about me or anything I say or do. I'm only responding at all because there is someone here who doesn't need you or your thoughtless vitriol to be the last word.

3. Sexual mismatch does not need to result in divorce. It can, but why would a person throw away an otherwise perfect marriage for a single incompatibility? Why should a person feel depressed or guilty based on something that normally gets less than 1% of the time in a healthy relationship?

4. As to mental gymnastics, how about if we get your opinion. Sexual intercourse is a 7 minute act, based on some stats. That means sex is 0.138889% of an average person's life. The other side of that is >99% of a person's life is spent not having sex. (these #s are roughly true for me).

So the question for you is, "why would you place such importance on sex that you would have people throw away everything else for something that is less than 1% of their life?"

Finances, custody questions, a home, a marriage, extended family, a job, a business, and so many other good things. Why would you throw those away for something you trivialize the way you trivialize sex?

You are the one who said it doesn't matter, remember? You said that the choice is "go without" or "hurt your wife by leaving."

You need to explain how those choices are the best choices available. (PS...they aren't).

Have you given your wife a choice regarding that 0.138889% of your life?

Seems like if you're weighing the costs / benefits of fucking other women, your wife should have a say in the matter as well.

Until your wife is fully consensual with respect to your dalliances, it's all just so much blathering and justifying on your part.

Or alternately, what you're saying is that the cost of honesty is too high, therefore, your chronic prevaricating is needed.

Or sometimes the truth is just not that useful.

Correct?



And as a side note: Would you be okay with your wife fucking other men or women? This question, although posed obliquely, seems to be germane to the subject at hand.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2013 09:24PM by schlock.

I will seriously answer your questions (really) when you answer mine.

I will add one more...who do you think you are to interfere in someone else's marriage and tell grown people that you know better for them than they know for themselves? Seriously, keep your mental phallus in your mental pants and stop trying to thought-rape people.

You are hung up on a false morality. I will absolutely answer you after you demonstrate that you've seriously considered the questions I've asked.

Lemme know.

1. Physical intimacy is a big component of a physically intimate relationship, one of the more important, I would say. Seems like both you and OP agree, based on your actions and your posts. (How-dare-she-keep-sex-from-me style posts, or I-have-to-get-my-rocks-off-somewhere posts.)

2. How do you know the OP doesn't need to hear my side of the matter? Maybe it will jolt him into doing the right thing - getting a divorce and moving on. (Didn't know you were the RFM police.)

3. No, mismatched libidos certainly don't have to lead to a divorce. But that can be resolved with an open marriage, where both parties understand and agree to the rules. Or counseling.

4. Wow, in every corner of the globe, from Saudi Arabia, to Venezuela, to Japan, to Bora Bora, sex is an ever-present theme and vibe. Whether it's shunned, celebrated, or tolerated, it's never forgotten. Biologically, it is a drive more powerful than hunger. Humans are obsessed with sex. It is a very important component to most people's lives. Consider the amount of time that is spent thinking about sex, not just the act itself.

5. Unless both parties in a marriage understand that infidelity is occurring inside the marriage, then stating that I'm interfering with said marriage is a bit silly, no? How can I interfere with something that is a sham?



Now, my turn:

1. Is truth sometimes not that useful?

2. Would you be okay with your wife having sex with other women or other men?

3. Only 7 minutes?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2013 10:08PM by schlock.

1. My post elevated emotional sexual intimacy over physical. You ignored.
2. He should hear your side. Didn't argue the right for you to post or for him to read. Simply think your opinion is somewhere off a cliff. He'll decide.
3. Those are 2 options, but not all available options.
4. Yep.
5. Wow, the logical fallacies here border insanity.

1. Yep. "do I look fat?"
2. Yep. If she was safe. Issue is not her sex life, but lack thereof. In fact, been there, done that.
3. Stat from a national report. With my wife intercourse is more like 3-5, because after I bring her to orgasm via oral sex, there are only 3-5 min til she's dry, so I finish kinda fast. With a woman about 4 weeks ago, it was 90 minutes with 2 climaxes for me and 7 for her. Guess who was happy that night? Me, cuz it was hot, the other woman, cuz it was hot, and my wife was happy cuz she didn't have to bother. Who was unhappy? You...because you think you know better, and you bruised your nose when you stuck it where it didn't belong. Fortunately for me, my happiness isn't subject to yours. :).

All the best.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2013 02:12PM by schlock.

Lube is your friend.

How do you know your wife was happy she didn't have to bother? Did she tell you when you told her about the other woman?

And also, who talks about someone getting dry anymore?! I really don't mean to be rude, but your descriptions of sex sound very immature and like you really don't know as much as you think you do about it. LUBE, my friend. LUBE. Get a giant bottle. Use it liberally. Also, there are some physical reasons why women get dry, and one of them (among others) is that they're NOT. TURNED. ON.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2013 10:17PM by woodsmoke.

Wow, this is extremely disturbing. I hope you've been tested regularly for STDs or you could bring something home to your wife.

I've been in "mismatched sex drive" relationships myself, all with people who had much lower sex drives than me (and I'm female). It was extremely painful and sometimes it caused the relationships to end. I never cheated because of it. Dishonesty is dishonesty, cheating is cheating, lying is lying. Sorry. If you can't get your sexual needs met in your monogamous relationship, then divorce your wife and find another woman with a sex drive as high as yours, or see a sex therapist with your wife to spice things up, or divorce your wife and get into a polyamorous relationship, or talk to your wife about opening up the relationship. Those are your only options...cruel betrayal shouldn't be one of them.

And wow, sex is a small part of life? Maybe the physical act, but eroticism is all the time. Maybe that's part of the problem...that you see sexuality as a physical act. It's not, it's a way of being.

The main issue is not sex outside the relationship. Not in the least. In many ways it can be good for people...if it's consenting. The issue is that you are not giving your wife a choice. She should have the choice to leave you or not based on your physical betrayal of her, as she thinks your sexual relationship is monogamous and you are lying about that. She should have the choice to bounce if she'd like. If not and she doesn't care, great! but that should be HER choice, not yours. I also hope you'd feel 100% fine with her fucking other guys or girls on the side. If not, that's extremely hypocritical.

You are not giving her the opportunity to consent to a nonmonogamous relationship. Which is what she's in. Against her will.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2013 10:13PM by woodsmoke.

I could have Ms. Schlock give you a great big kiss!

(She's much cuter than I, besides all that other stuff.)

Mrs. Schlock sounds mad fun, I wouldn't mind it.

Mad fun, that is, and I'm sure she'd love to meet you.

A couple of dirty martinis, and hooboy!

I've slept with non LDS women and Mormon women and without exception the best sex was with the never-mo's.
Not even close in my experience.

Sex and Mormons with hangups are all way to common.

I left tscc about 30 years ago and decided to really explore my sexuality. Best thing I ever did. Tscc had me way to tapped down and I was hungry for a change. My wife and I didn't live together full time for about 15 years do to commuting type jobs and we had an open marriage. I slept with about 20 woman over that period. Also one of the best things I ever did. I still have great, deeply satisfying friendships with several of my former lovers and I wouldn't ever want to be without them in my life and they say the same thing. 3 of those were unbelievable in bed. A retired stripper with the most gorgeous tattoos, but then you would expect her to know something about sex. The other two at the top of the list were both born again christians that had abandon their faith and decided to explore life. Real tigers. There was also the mormon girl that was a counselor in the RS of her ward, a terrible hypocrite but was insatiable. We carried on for 20 years, all while she was serving in various church jobs, raising 5 kids, and keeping her husband happy. I still marvel at her energy. Exploring your sex drive is truly one of the most important and satisfying things you can do in life.

It worked for you. It worked for your wife. And both were able to more fully explore your humanity - from a sexual tilt.

+1000

agingmale, how many times did your wife orgasm in the last 35 years?

To those that claim it's innocuous and trivial:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,970378,970378#msg-970378

Just saying...

What an enormous betrayal was revealed by agingmale's wife when he discovered her to be a sexual non-participant. Kudos to him for staying with her for all the good she brings to his life, even as all of his needs aren't being met. Kudos to him for finding a way.

In the other thread, it references betrayal. How can you love someone who proved to be someone different than they appeared at first?

How many Mormons marry because of sexual attraction? How many spouses betray their vows by not being sexually available, or sexually active within their marriage?

I can understand throwing away a marriage and family and security because of such a betrayal, but not throwing those things away is another course. Sexual infidelity comes in many forms, including frigidity.

So, who betrayed who?

I think the ultimate betrayal is to deny someone their own right to choose what is best for their life. I agree that some people are able to sleep with people or have other relationships outside the main one and not "throw the main one away." It can even enhance it...IF IT IS CONSENSUAL. The problem I have with what you are doing, besides the obvious dishonesty, is this: You are not giving your wife a choice. It is not noble, and you are not doing her a favor by pretending to be in a monogamous marriage and to keep your vows when you are not. She could choose to be with someone else who pleased her sexually, or she could choose to be single and without a sex life rather than in a marriage where someone needs to have sex with other people. But you are denying her that choice and thus a basic right, which is self-determination. She thinks she is in a monogamous marriage and you are deciding for her that she will not be. You do not have that right, no matter how much you want to pat yourself on the back for staying with someone who is "frigid" (who even says that?). (Also, I forget where in the marriage vows people promised to have sex. But that's another matter.) KUDOS to him?! No, kudos would be due if he were honest with his wife about her having been in a nonmonogamous relationship for a long time. Kudos would be due if she were not living a lie, as your wife is, as she believes she is in a faithful marriage. You do not know for sure that she does not want to know that you are being unfaithful. YOU DO NOT KNOW unless she has specifically told you that and given you the OK. You cannot speak for another person.

Also, there is no surefire way to prevent STDs. Even condoms do not always protect, and many antibodies don't show up for many months after a sexual encounter. So saying that you never bring home disease cannot possibly be a "for sure" statement, unless you are never having any kind of sexual contact with your wife at all.

And so are you saying, in your comparison, that your wife USED to be very sexually active and is no longer? Because that signals a deeper emotional or physical problem that should be checked out. Or maybe you just stopped doing it for her. Otherwise, your comparison makes no sense, unless your wife was at first very sexual. Otherwise she did not purport to be something she is not. You, however, did, by promising fidelity and honesty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2013 10:11PM by woodsmoke.

+1

#1 where did I say anything about keeping a secret from my wife? I don't think you will find that in my comments.

#2 kudos would be due his wife if she were honest with him and simply said, "go ahead."

#3 I didn't say my wife used to be more sexually active, but if I had, I still would tell you this: You are clearly not a doctor or a psychiatrist, and you have no clue about the variety of influences that have led to my decisions or the decisions my wife has made. The personal nature of your attack seems to stem from a fear of what I'm saying. People were scared to free slaves or to allow gays to marry. Hitler was afraid of the Jews. Didn't make them right. Your approach seems like irrational fear to me.

You know far to little about me or my wife to judge...but I actually don't care. You don't know me, and I don't know you. But consider that the guy who started this thread is walking in a different set of shoes than yours or mine. Consider that you are trying to impose a particular version of morality on him that works for you, but that is clearly not working for him.

So, STDs...yep, those could happen to his wife if he's not careful. But maybe he'll stop having sex with her altogether, and find more fulfillment in his own marriage when he does. Maybe by seeking sexual satisfaction elsewhere, he can move to a better place with his wife where she isn't pressured and he isn't pushy. Maybe it is a better balance. There are other ways to prevent exposure to STDs as well.

The one thing I'm certain of is that you do not know the right answer. However, it is nice that he can see your opinion and mine, so he can choose.

Please do not have any more affairs. Talk to your spouse about what you are feeling. If she cares about your happiness she will try harder. If she doesn't then you have not done anything more secretly and you can decide how the rest of your life should go. you said your kids are grown. Please have some integrity. You will begin to hate yourself if you don't.