So for those of you who arent familiar with my situation, I have been married for almost 7 months and no longer believe in TSCC but my wife does. I have yet to make my beliefs known to her, so I keep up appearances as though everything is fine. Even if she were to follow me out of the church (which is extremely unlikely), we wouldnt be able to make it because she wants children and I no longer do. I also accept the fact that I married her for the wrong reasons (TSCC related). I love her very much and want her to be happy and understand that getting a divorce may be the only way to let her find what she wants.

Should things move in that direction, what do I need to know to be prepared? We have no investments or property, no children, and Im fine with her keeping most of the furniture and gifts we got for our wedding. What little research I have done says that I should be able to keep the stuff that I owned prior to getting married (which isnt much. Car, books, computer) As much as it pains me to say, it seems as though things could potentially be broken off cleanly. I would formerly resign from the church afterwards so she wouldnt have to worry about any complications with church leadership when/if she remarries.

Does anyone have any advice for how to lessen the blow? Im sure thats a fantasy, but if anyone has anything to say I would love to hear it. Its a gut wrenching decision but I know it has to be made in order to free myself from TSCC and for her to move on with her life.

I also live in the Phoenix metropolitan area in Arizona if that helps.

Also, we have an appointment to meet with the bishopric about a new calling for me. I had planned on turning down anything they tried to assign me but dont know how to do that with my wife in attendance.

I think you're making a potential mistake by pretending everything is fine now and making plans that look a lot like blindsiding for some future date.

She needs to know you have doubts and aren't were you were 7 months ago. You don't need to tell her everything at once, but I wouldn't just keep everything from her.

Exmo,

One of the first things Annagrammy suggested to me was to inform her bit by bit. Not dumping everything on her all at once. I havnt disclosed anything yet because I dont know how! She is the kind of person who will dig and dig till all the information is out on the table. Any advice on how to confront a spouse about a change in beliefs would be appreciated as well.

Well, if that's the case, then postpone the meeting with the bishop. You've got bigger things to deal with.

First off, I'd tell her that something just doesn't feel right to you with the church and because of that you can't meet with the bishop about a calling just now. Tell her you don't know what could be wrong, but something feels different. If she starts to dig and ask for concrete answers, make vague general statements, like "I'm not feeling like I'm getting answer to my prayers" or "things just feel hollow." Don't give her anything specific for now.

Next, start with something very basic and ask her to research it with you. Pick anything easy . . .like are today's temples a replica of Solomon's temple. . .do they perform the same ceremonies . . . Something that doesn't have a specific right or wrong to it. See how thing go in this kind of discussion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2013 09:38PM by Devoted Exmo.

With apologies to Annagramy, I think that's terrible advice. It borders on duplicitous. Moreover, while this can be a unilateral decision legally, it should be a shared decision. You are making massive assumptions about how your wife will respond and that isn't being fair to her.

As releve said, the first thing to do is call the bishop and tell him that you have personal business to resolve. If he pressed, tell him it is between you and your wife and none of his business. Then sit down with your wife and tell her your feelings--don't guess her feelings, let her express them.

I cast my vote in agreement with this.

It also gives her a chance to look at options and confront the possibility that you married for reasons that aren't applicable anymore.

For what it's worth, I married a person for reasons that were based on church and availability within my stake at the time. I wouldn't have chosen my husband if circumstances were different. That said, I'm still with him and we are extremely happy.
We both left mormonism around the same time.
He's my best friend.
Who knows what the future holds for you with this woman.
It might surprise you. In any case you are prepared for either option aren't you? Or are you only prepped for the option of divorce?

If my wife was fine with me not wanting children and not wanting to be a part of TSCC there would be no problem. If things move in that direction I would welcome them! I honestly do not want to get a divorce, but I want to make sure we are both happy and able to be the persons that we are.

You haven't had an honest discussion with your wife, so how do you know what she feels?

This is what marriage counseling is, only with a referee. The counselor will also help you distinguish between what you think you want and what you really want (learning this is one of the hardest lessons in life.)

Arizona is a community property state. Everything you obtained AFTER you were married is split 50/50. If one of you worked while the other went through college, Alimony could be considered, but in a marriage this short, it's unlikely.

RE: Future Temple Sealing - when you resign from the church doesn't affect it one way or another.

Before you go that far, COMMUNICATE with your wife before you meet with the bishop. You may be surprised. Again, get counseling (but NOT from the Bishop because unless he's a licensed therapist, he's wholy unqualified.) If you are poor, you could go through LDS social services (I've talked to a lot of Mormons and Non-mormons and contrary to what many people have said here, therapists at LDS social services are good or bad at about the same rate as anywhere else. Besides, if that doesn't work for your, you could then go somewhere else.)

One word of warning; even if you think otherwise, the divorce could be as emotionally devastating to you as it is to her.

My best friends marriage ended last year. When her husband told her he wanted a divorce, he also told her that he never believed in TSCC, that he went on a mission and over the years served in four different bishoprics and on the HC for social and professional reasons, and that he is no longer interested in being part of the family that they raised together. He admitted that he has had several affairs of long duration as well as one night stands when he was out of town for work. My friend and her grown children are devastated. She is sixty three year old. She will probably live out the rest of her life alone. She believes that most of her life she has lived a lie.

You need to be as honest with your wife as you can, as soon as you can. If you truly love her, you owe her the truth. Divorce is awful, but living a lie is worse.

If your wife has been invited to the bishops office in regards to a calling being presented to you, it is probably not a minor calling. You have personal business to take care of that trumps the meeting with the bishop. Postpone the meeting if you can.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2013 09:30PM by releve.

She didn't know she was living in a lie with the church and her husband?

That's a full meal deal on an empty stomach.
That's a kick right in the gut.
Now all he had to do was tell her he didn't love her all the time he was married either and that would be a 3rd kick in the gut.

I couldn't be that deceptive.
I do not like it on this board when I hear of men and women not being truthful with their families about their disbelief.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2013 09:37PM by joan.

I was not being deceptive when we got married. I had stuff on the shelf when I met her and I was honest with her about that. At the time I was really trying to make things work according to the "mormon template". As time went on, I went back to look at what was on my shelf and my beliefs in TSCC were completely shattered. That eventually led to my decision to not have children. It also led to the realization that I did not marry her for the right reasons. I would love for the opportunity to go back before we tied the knot and take care of it then. Thats impossible. Whats done is done and worrying about the past is pointless. The only thing I have any control over is what I do with the future.

What would you have me do?

Tell her EXACTLY what you just wrote here, perhaps expanding a little on what you mean by "the right reasons." This is about your relationship, not the church (trying to deconvert her is cynical and reeks of avoidance issues.)

I would have you be honest sooner rather than later. Seven months is not a very long time. She will be sad, you will be sad, but if you wait and you equivocate for the next few months or heaven forbid years, it will hurt more. She will feel betrayed and lied too, because she was. If you married this girl, that you say you love, for the wrong reason, then let her go for the right reason, because you are an honorable man, who does not lie to the people he claims to love.

Take it one step at a time. A divorce is not looming. Confrontation about your disbelief is. Start there.

Thanks for putting that into perspective for me. I know that none if this is going to be a cake walk. One way or the other, both paths will be tough.

This is good advice, unless you already know you just don't want to be with her. If that is the case then get that band-aid off in a quick rip.

If you could see yourself with her when she was no longer a believer in churchco., then get that process going and approach it as wcg says.

I had a similar situation with my ex. Discovered early on she was not the "liberal mormon" I thought I was marrying. I would have loved to stay with her if she could have dropped the mythology, but not an option so it ended pretty quick. And that was a good thing.

Just curious, why does finding out the truth about the church preclude you having children?

Frankly, I think that's a bigger issue than church membership. Having or not having kids is a huge decision and I've seen it destroy more than one marriage when the spouses weren't on the same page.

Whatever you do, don't get her pregnant before you figure this out.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2013 10:38PM by DebbiePA.

That was my first thought, too. The decision to have or not have kids (or differences of opinion on whether to have or not have kids) is a much bigger issue.

My two cents:

Don't waste another minute. Tell your wife about your unbelief. And this is coming from someone who didn't tell her husband for nearly 7 years after she quit believing. I wish that I had spilled the beans much sooner. It is unbelievably freeing to just be honest. How are you going to ask your wife for a divorce if you can't even tell her that you don't believe in the church?

I think it's unfair that you're planning changes in your life that affect your wife without including her. I think it's unfair to assume that she'll respond in a way that will automatically lead to divorce. You don't know for sure because you're not telling her anything.

First things first. Tell your wife and then go from there.

My advice:

1) You're not being honest with your wife. This is deeply troubling, especially as you make plans to divorce her *without first discussing your issues with her.* So, tell her you no longer belief. Leave it at that, let the emotions shake out.

2) Leave the question of kids for later. At 7 months of marriage, you're barely getting to know each other. Put the issue of kids on the back burner.

3) See a therapist. Don't know where you're at, but get some free family counseling at the local university if you have to. You've got some serious communications when bedrock marital issues -- kids, values, etc. -- are items you are not discussing because you're presuming on the part of your wife.

Personal anecdote: My wife was hard-core TBM. Her dad was a bishop, whole family active, etc. I told her 10 monts ago I was out. Within 6 months, she was out as well. Have some faith in people.

It sounds -- and I realize I'm jumping to potentially unfounded conclusions here -- that you are looking for justification for divorce that you can blame on your wife. Be a man. If you want out of the relationship, own that decision. If you want reconciliation, try some communication.

Hello pathist,

It seems to me you are very unhappy and confused, and I am glad to see so many have stepped in to support you.

I too feel you should tell you wife of your change of beleifs, leave some of the other stuff, the kids, the divorce etc, on the back shelf. First see how she reacts to your change of beleif systems. Your assumption that she may not want to continue the marriage may well be wrong. But whatever is to happen, there are TWO in your marriage, not just one, and any decisions made, should be made with consultaion TOGETHER. Yes, the chances are she will be very upset, but you must be prepared to deal with that, tell her that you do love her, and despite all your other changes of ideas, that hasn't changed.

Once the talking begins I think you will feel better about being honest, and then I would be seeking councelling to see if some middle ground can't be found.


Good Luck, I will be thinking of you.

I really appreciate all of your comments.

I understand how this must sound to most of you but im not planning on just up and divorcing her out of the blue. As I said earlier, I have yet to tell her how I feel about TSCC. Even though it is speculation, I dont foresee it going well. I could be surprised though, who knows? I just wanted to be prepared for the worst case scenario.

I dont blame her for any ills in my life. The only issue I have right now is that my being married to her is delaying my resignation.

As far as children goes. She is really pushing for it. As in, she wants to start trying at our 9 month mark. When we got married, it was never something I felt I wouldnt do as a married member of TSCC. It was just something you did according to the template. I will say however, that I always felt that children should never be brought into the world for anyones sake but their own. You dont have kids to make you happy, you have children because you want to/are able to provide them with the best situation possible. Im not in a position to properly provide for children right now. I work full time and go to school and my wife has a mountain of student debt that we are dealing with. In addition to that, after I opened my eyes to the church and realized what a sham it was, it became obvious to me that my desire to have kids was purely based on church principles. I like my sleep, I like having a clean and quiet house, I like being able to travel and enjoy my spare time. I guess im just content being one of those selfish childless people.

And dont worry about unexpected pregnancies. I may have been raised TBM, but Im well aware of how babies are made.

You have exactly the right idea about children. They should not be born because a church says everyone needs to pair off and make them, but because their parents desired to raise some good members of society. There is nothing selfish in not feeling that 'calling'.

Fellow childfree here. I was glad to find out it was not the mandatory LifeScript that TSCC presented it as. You are free to make your own path.

But wise to tell your wife sooner since she declares a desire for children, at least find out if it is from her heart or only because she has been told her 'highest calling is to be a mother'.

You're young, only married 7 months, and have no children. Tell her how you feel. See how she feels. Wait a while and discuss it again, telling her how you want to run your life. See if she agrees or if you can compromise on certain things. If you can't work it out, hey, you're young and have only been married a short time, you can get divorced a whole lot easier than many others...

Dear Pathist,

You used the D word and it doesn't sound like that is actually what you want. Please be more careful with that word. I think you need to see a marriage counselor ASAP. You're not communicating with your wife. You seem afraid to talk to her about important issues. Maybe you've tried to talk to her and she gets all emotional and so you back off, I have no way of knowing what your attempts to communicate have been like.

I do know a few things about women that you might not know. If your wife cries, it is not the end of the world. Sometimes, for some women, those tears are right below the surface.
Your wife is under pressure by the culture (her family, her friends, her church) to have a baby and prove her womanhood. She also has biological urges to procreate. That doesn't mean that she should have a baby, but those are the reasons she wants to have a baby. It doesn't sound like you can afford a baby right now. You might change your mind about having children and you might not. She needs to know that that is a possibility.

You need to be honest about your feelings about TSCC. This is not an all or nothing situation, but some negotiation needs to start now.

You and your wife need to have an honest conversation about what you want your life together to be like. Like I said at the beginning, if you can't have these meaningful conversations with you wife on your own, get some help.

If these differences in life goals can't be worked out, then getting a divorce may be the best thing for both of you. Living in a dishonest relationship isn't the best thing for either of you.

Good Luck

I have a different take on a 7 month marriage. You two have not had enough time to get to even get to know each other. If you want out at this stage are you wanting to run back to mommy?

When my wife and I married, I had a child, she had two and we had all 5 of us the first summer. We lived in her parents house so her parents and her youngest brother would show up once in awhile and stay with us. Then her other siblings would just walk in the door and take over our house.

My daughter and her daughter hated each other. We had done the Mormon thing and got married. My wife had 3 jobs when we got married and in 3 months had lost all of them. Her ex paid zero dollars in child support. I could not make enough money to keep things going. We lived in Mesa, Arizona. Land of everyone is a Mormon.

I was so miserable that I was going to divorce my wife just as soon as summer was over and I could fly my child back to her mother.

We have married almost 25 years now and I love my wife more than anything else. Our daughters are best friends and the dumbest thing I could have done was not talk to my wife about how I felt. She was feeling the same way. We decided we loved each other so we moved out of her parents home and started a new life just us and the kids.

You need to talk with your wife and keep the word divorce out of the conversation.

Part of your process in building yourself up after leaving Mormonism will be putting Mormon authority in its' proper place. Find your words, but the bishop doesn't need to talk to you right now, he meets with you when you need him.

Do you think Boyd K. Packer's bishop hassles him? It's a groupthink tool to keep you in line. Find your words, but you only need to meet with the bishop when you need to meet with the bishop, not when he needs to meet with you. He's not the boss of you, you are.

The other stuff is up to you. TBM wives/husbands, good luck!

I was once in a nearly identical situation to you, only it was at ___ years instead of seven months.

Your legal situation isn't very complicated. So, don't worry about the divorce for now. If you need to go that route eventually, it will all sort itself out then. Trust me on that.

If you at all want to save the relationship I suggest being completely open and honest with your wife ASAP. Tell her everything. The evolution of your beliefs. Not wanting children. I would even tell her about going behind her back on RfM to discuss the relationship (sorry!).

You're long overdue for the big, scary conversation you've been avoiding. If it's like mine, it won't be fun. Expect lots tears and anger. She may run off to stay with her mom for a night or two. But try to think of where she's coming from with the Mormon programming. She'll likely think you've been deceived by the devil or viewing porn or whatever.

Your gonna have to fight to save this relationship. And I mean that. Fight. You're going to have to argue and cry and get frustrated with each other. When you stop doing that, it's all over.

You're in for a rough couple of months (sorry!) If the relationship doesn't hold up, that's ok, but at least you gave it a shot and you were honest with her. That will make it easier to move on.

Agreed, been there myself. And yes, part of the reason I got a divorce was that I didn't believe anymore and knew she just could not deal with me being an apostate.

But as everyone has said, that does not mean that your situation has to be that way. There have been many situations where people have been able to work through differences and still be married - each situation and each person is unique.

My free advice is above all else; try to remain friends even if the marriage ends. Don't let things or situations drive a wedge between a good friendship. If it does come to divorce, try to end it amicably, without reverting to childish tactics or temper tantrums. Be grown up about trying to end it in as positive way as possible for both of you.

Best of luck. There are many here who you can turn to for help and advice. Hope it works out for the best for both of you.

Fortunately, my wife's love for me is much greater than her regard for Mormonism. It's been nine years since I sent in my resignation letter and we are still together, celebrating our 36th anniversary this month. For us now, Sunday is just another weekend day we get to spend together.

Seven months into a relationship is a pretty short time. The church has you programmed that you either believe or not believe, obey or not obey, that if someone leaves the church they must be shunned and separated. Being confused about wanting kids and changing your mind is common and can change back and forth as families have children and learn whats involved.

This is going to sound harsh but you need to grow up a bit. take the issues one at a time. First issue is you don't believe in the church any more, talk that out with your wife. Get a non-mo marriage couselor and see where that leads. Talk over why you don't want kids with the couselor, are there underlying issues ...are you gay? It's hard for us to offer advise if we don't know what the "wrong reasons" were for getting married. Many of us have been in your shoes and have worked it out with our spouses, so don't conclude that all is lost or wrong or bad decisions. I have many friends from other cultrues who were assigned wives by their families and they have worked things out to where they love each other and have a solid relationship. You must have had a pretty decent relationship to get married so build on that and be honest and take things one step at a time and see where it leads.

I would get everything on the table with your wife ASAP. Decline the meeting with the bishop for now. Have that tough discussion with your wife and see where you stand.

Don't worry about the details of a potential divorce for now.