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Posted by: Observer ( )
Date: September 01, 2013 01:01PM

Maybe it is that I was just a fan, but I did like some of the prophets. I baptized when Kimball was the prophet but he soon died leaving the seat to Benson. It was interesting to see his passion and conviction when he was speaking. I particularly liked the "beware of pride" speech as I did agree with a lot of what he said.

Then it was the other prophet who neither said or did too much, that I can't even remember his name, and he soon died leaving the seat to Hinckley.

Oh boy, was he an energetic guy or what?, he was old, but he had a lot to give. I did like his spech style, I did agree with some of the stuff he said and some times he could be cool. After his wife died, and as he was turning older, he did soften and his authoritative ways dimished. As he faced his imminent death he became somewhat more humble. Too bad his sickness was being kept secret, but we can tell by looking at him, how sick he was.
He died too, and the entire community in SLC grieved their prophet. Besides his lack of sincerity and fool playing during his interviews on tv, I would say, he did ok. I did like his style too.

Then it came Monson... this guy I have never like at all. I have seen some videos of how his speeches would be years ago, like when he was called to the twelve, and boy, he was a strong convincing guy. I wonder what happened wit him. He seems very fake to me. I don't like his talks full of tales and peom verses... and his widow stories. Yeah, maybe he was giving a lot as a bishop and was concerned about all that people taht he mention's in his stories, but besides that, he lacks precense and authority. His bad jokes don't help either.

I can tell, that compared to the previous three, he is the worst. I can't believe how people can say they love him. I can also tell that he doesn't love all of the church members. To me he really is NOT present.
His counselors don't help either, nor Eyring with his never ending crying (I am really tired of that) or the aerospace analogies of Urchdorf.

Maybe it is that I don't believe any more, maybe Him was the nail in the coffin that made me realize and accept the truth. Either way I don't like him, and I guess my comment here was to vent this and also to ask, does any one else feel the same? does anyone else thinks that the prophets are not as good?

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Posted by: another oxymormon ( )
Date: September 01, 2013 01:27PM

Hinckley was the prophet when I was a teen and in college, so I've heard him speak a lot. I had the most exposure to him as I was active. I became inactive about six months before Hinckley passed away, so I haven't followed Monson much. Monson doesn't have the same gusto as Hinckley. He's more of a cheerleader/history teacher of the church. He doesn't have the same reassuring words of wisdom as Hinckley. I do think Eyring and Uchtdorf are enthusiastic, though. The members love their talks and inspiration. It must be the receiver. I haven't talked to TBMs about Monson, but I assume they'd think he's an inspired leader. However, Monson just lost his wife, so I wonder if his health will soon deteriorate soon, as well.

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Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: September 01, 2013 01:56PM

Pres. Hunter got married to a woman who was basically his nurse. I liked Hunter. His second wife stayed in the background on purpose because she knew her role. Maybe the same will happen with Monson. He needs a keeper that can stay with him 24/7 and whisk him away when he forgets things or starts becoming violent or loopy. We will see.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: September 01, 2013 02:04PM

My life goes back to Heber J. Grant. Leadership HAS declined in quality

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Posted by: houseonsand ( )
Date: September 01, 2013 03:57PM

The crying really bothers me.

When I was still believing but losing it slowly, I would think: If God himself were speaking, would he be telling us this story about visiting someone in the ward? Is this man really supposed to be speaking God's words?

Talks today are dilute and unoffensive as possible to non-mormons. We are just like you!

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: September 01, 2013 03:58PM

. . . was cribbed from the writings of C.S. Lewis; ghost-written by my aunt, May Benson, wife of ETB's oldest child; and, finally, then read for ETB at General Conference by Gordon B. Hinckley.

Below are the details on how ETB didn't write his "Beware of Pride" talk; on how daughter-in-law did; and on how, because the Big Boys were too proud to admit depending on a woman, they refused to give her credit for it:

--Ezra Taft Benson’s Much-Loved “Beware of Pride” Sermon and How It Came to Be

Among faithful Mormons, one of the most famous and appreciated talks attributed to my grandfather (and I use the term “attributed” deliberately) was entitled “Beware of Pride.”

As one Mormon commentator has declared:

“['Beware of Pride' is] [p]erhaps the best remembered of all Ezra Taft Benson's talks. . . . [M]embers from all over the political spectrum love and agree with him here. This talk is NOT controversial, but loved.”

http://www.zionsbest.com/top25.html


Likewise, in a glowing obituary of my grandfather, the sermon was mentioned as follows:

"Continuing to help set the Church in order and perfect the Saints, he delivered another landmark address entitled 'Beware of Pride' . . ."

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/daily/history/people/Benson_EOM.htm


(Actually, the sermon was not delivered by Ezra Taft Benson himself but, instead, read from the pulpit by First Counselor in the First Presidency Gordon B. Hinckley on 1 April 1989 during the Saturday morning session of the 159th Semi-Annual LDS General Conference).

Not only was the sermon delivered by someone else, persuasive evidence has surfaced that a person other than Ezra Taft Benson actually researched and wrote the talk. That individual’s identity is known and will be revealed below.

Further evidence also overwhelmingly points to the conclusion that the text of my grandfather's pride talk was itself borrowed, without attribution, from the writings of another author, who will also be identified herein.

Hence, the assertion of admirers that “this talk is NOT controversial” is becoming less accurate as the facts surrounding its actual genesis become more well known.

The sermon is, in fact, controversial because much of it consists not of the actual words or ideas of Ezra Taft Benson, but of words and ideas which were stolen from others, researched by others and written by others.
_____


--Ezra Taft Benson's Sermon on Pride Was Plagiarized From the Writings of C.S. Lewis

The following question was asked of me some years ago in this forum:

”Did ETB steal from C.S. Lewis? . . . The first time I read the C.S. Lewis passage, I nearly fell out of my (TBM) chair. ETB’s talk as so clearly lifted in large part from Lewis and nary an acknowledgment to be heard. Usually such a gaffe by a well-known person gets a lot of coverage, and yet I have never heard . . . any admission or apology. What say ye? Any info?" ("Bobby D," on "Recovery from Mormonism" bulletin board, 14 June 2003)

Likewise, another questioner followed up with a similarly direct inquiry:

"Was CS Lewis the author of the pride sermon from ET Benson? Where can that be found? Anyone know?" ("novel-t," on "Recovery from Mormonism" bulletin board, 20 January 2004)

The answer is a definitive yes.

Significant portions of Ezra Taft Benson’s pride sermon were directly lifted from, influenced by, and cobbled together from the writings of Christian apologist C.S. Lewis--specifically from his book, Mere Christianity, under the chapter of “The Great Sin” (C.S. Lews, "Mere Christianity," New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1952, revised and enlarged).
_____


--The Proof: Line-Upon Line, Plagiarism Upon Plagiarism

A line-by-line comparison of the text of both documents provides clear and convincing evidence that a major source source for Ezra Taft Benson's talk on pride was the earlier work of C.S. Lewis.

Moreover, this blatant and heavy borrowing, both in terms of wording and concept, was done without attribution.

Examples of these plagiarisms are listed below, by category.
_____


--Pride is the Ultimate Vice

Lewis:

"The essential vice, the utmost evil, is Pride." (p. 109)


Benson:

"Pride is the universal sin, the great vice."
_____


--The Competitive Nature of Pride

Lewis:

"Pride is essentially competitive--is competitive by is very nature . . .” (p. 109)

". . . Pride is essentially competitive in a way that other vices are not." (p. 110)

"Pride is competitive by its very nature." (p. 110)

“Once the element of competition has gone, pride is gone. That is why I say that Pride is essentially competitive in a way the other vices are not.” (p. 110)


Benson:

"Pride is essentially competitive in nature. . . .

”Our will in competition to God’s will allows desires, appetites, and passions to go unbridled."
_____


--The Proud See Themselves Being Above Others

Lewis:

"A proud man is always looking down on things and people; and, of course, as long as you are looking down, you cannot see something that is above you." (p.111)


Benson:

“Most of us consider pride to be a sin of those on the top, such as the rich and the learned, looking down at the rest of us.”
_____


--The Proud Also Look From the Bottom Up

Lewis:

“When you delight wholly in yourself and do not care about the praise at all, you have reached the bottom.” (p. 112)


Benson:

“There is, however, a more common ailment among us and that is pride from the bottom looking up.”
_____


--Pride Equals Enmity

Lewis:

"Pride always means enmity--it is enmity. And not only enmity between man and man, but enmity to God." (p.111)


Benson:

"The central feature of pride is enmity--enmity toward God and enmity toward our fellowman."

“Our enmity toward God takes on many labels, such as rebellion, hard-heartedness, stiff-neckedness, unrepentant, puffed up, easily offended, and sign seekers.”

“Another major portion of this very prevalent sin of pride is enmity toward our fellowmen.”
_____


--Pride and Self-Value

Lewis:

"You value other people enough to want them to look at you." (p. 112)


Benson:

"The proud depend upon the world to tell them whether they have value or not."
_____


--Pride vs. Humility

Lewis:

"The virtue opposite to it [pride], in Christian morals, is called Humility." (p. 109)

“ . . . if you really get into any kind of touch with Him you will, in fact, be humble—delightfully humble, feeling the infinite relief of having for once got rid of all the silly nonsense about your own dignity which had made you restless and unhappy all your life. He is trying to make you humble in order to make this moment possible . . .” (p. 114)


Benson:

"The antidote for pride is humility . . . "

“Choose to be humble. God will have a humble people. Either we can choose to be humble or we can be compelled to be humble.”
_____


--Pride Not Admitted in Self

Lewis:

"There is one vice of which no man in the world is free; which every one in the world loathes when he sees it in someone else; and which hardly any people, except Christians, ever imagine that they are guilty themselves." (pp. 108-09)


Benson:

"Pride is a sin that can readily be seen in others but is rarely admitted in ourselves."
_____


Only once in ETB's sermon was proper credit given to C.S. Lewis as a source:

"The proud make every man their adversary by pitting their intellects, opinions, works, wealth, talents, or any other worldly measuring device against others. In the words of C. S. Lewis: 'Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man. . . . It is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest. Once the element of competition has gone, pride has gone' ('Mere Christianity' [New York: Macmillan, 1952, pp. 109-10)."
_____


--The Identity of the Individual Who Researched and Wrote Ezra Taft Benson’s “Beware of Pride” Sermon

Several years ago, I visited with May Benson (daughter-in-law of Ezra Taft Benson and wife of Reed Benson, Ezra Taft Benson’s oldest child), in their home in Provo, Utah, during which time the subject of pride and my grandfather’s sermon on the matter was a focus of conversation.

The first occasion was prior to the public delivery of Ezra Taft Benson’s sermon by Gordon B. Hinckley in the April 1989 General Conference and the second visit took place after the speech.

May said that she had very strong feelings about the subject of pride. She was especially offended and concerned with what she regarded as the Benson family's own problems with pride. (In fact, she said she had gotten up in disgust and walked out of a wedding breakfast for my sister Meg, when one of the daughters of Ezra Taft Benson, Beverly Benson Parker, as she was listening to the father of the groom, Cap Ferry, make some remarks to the assembled, leaned over and whispered self-righteously to others at the table, "Well, we know which family was blessed with the spirituality").

May said she had put together quite a few thoughts on the subject of pride that she hoped someday to compile and publish in a book.

However, after my grandfather’s pride sermon was delivered, May said that she no longer felt it necessary to publish her hoped-for book. Why? Because, she said, her husband, Reed, had spoken with Ezra Taft Benson about her research on the topic. May was clearly indicating that her information and study efforts had been used in crafting my grandfather’s sermon on pride.

However, the true extent of May Benson's involvement in that effort was not shared with us by her and did not become evident until some time later. Reliable sources in Provo subsequently informed me of rumors that May herself may have worked on Ezra Taft Benson’s sermon. This I was able to later confirm directly from a credible source inside the Benson family who knows May quite well, who was familiar with the situation and who wishes to remain anonymous. The source told me in a face-to-face meeting that May Benson, daughter-in-law of Ezra Taft Benson through marriage to his son Reed, traveled to St. George, Utah, where over a period of several weeks “she wrote his talk.”
_____


--Finally Giving Credit Where Credit Is Due

It appears that those responsible for the production and delivery of Ezra Taft Benson's "Beware of Pride" sermon were themselves too prideful to acknowlege that:

--(1) the sermon was largely plagiarized from the earlier works of noted Christian writer, C.S. Lewis;

--(2) the sermon was actually ghost-written by a woman, MaY Benson, doing research on the talk for an uninspired Mormon "prophet;" and

--3) the female who wrote the talk (May Benso), wasn't given credit by the man who was falsely said to have composed it (Ezra Taft Benson), nor by the other man who actually delivered it (Gordon B. Hinckley).

Nonetheless, praise to the man who depends on a woman. :)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2013 04:07PM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Observer ( )
Date: September 01, 2013 06:35PM

Very interesting clarification. Mmm it makes me wonder about his other favorite talk about the bom.

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