When I run into guys I knew from church and talk to them for a bit, they always pat me on the shoulder as we go our go our Sepaarate ways. Even when I went to the ward Halloween thing, there were guys patting me on the shoulder as I would pass them in the hall. I don't think it was a garment feel up, but maybe more of a dominance in their minds type of thing. Is that body language that they feel superior to the one receiving the pat?
Any body out there pat guys on the shoulder as a sigh of your dominance?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2013 10:08AM by cheezus.
In your opinion, it has "nothing to do with dominance", but in my opinion it absolutely has to do with dominance in some settings. You see Mormons believe they are God's, or God's in embroyo. So when they pat the OP on the back...it is a Mormon man way of showing dominance over who he percieves as spiritually inferior. Now you see the Q15 touch each other all the time, back, hands, leg, etc. This is not necessarily a show of dominance amongst themselves - or maybe it is. Hard to say with those asshats.
I believe invading personal space and touching shoulders, arms, or back is often used to exert dominance. In studies people with higher social rank touch subordinates more. However, touching someone's arm or shoulder can also be an affiliative sign. Maybe it's a cultural thing there?
I agree, dominance may be a little strong a word. To be fair, as I've gotten older I've noticed I have more paternal/protective feelings when interacting with younger people. I think there's some biological thing going on. But then I have the self control to judge what to do to express it. A lot of mormons,as we know, lack self control.
I have never, not ever been hugged by a Mormon male I wasn't married to.
I left Mormonism and have had almost every male I now know that hugs me when they see me. This took some getting used to.
Mormons aren't particularly the hugging type in my experience. Non Mormon men and women both seem to always want a hug. Being an introvert, and not used to the hug thing, I hate the hug culture. I never ever am the one to initiate a hug. My kids, grandkids and hubby are the only ones I willingly hug.
I learned early on that it doesn't go well if you tell people you're not the hugging type. They then feel uncomfortable around you. Its a no win.
I had a series of conversations with a much older friend and when we would shake hands and part ways, he would pat me on the shoulder. For a while I thought nothing of it. In a gesture of humor, and imitation I patted him on the shoulder. He then told me that he would pat me on the shoulder and that would reinforce his Alfa male-ness in our friendship. We would then have a running joke/contest to be the last to pat a shoulder. He would be kind of put out if he "lost". That drew attention to this spectacle of shoulder patty cake. What is funny is that if the tbm does it, then I do it back, it does get socially awkward real fast. Try it. It is fun. Or next time you intact with a bishop character, be the last to pat his shoulder. I testify it will drive him nuts.
This thread got me thinking so today tried the variant of a$$ patting which drew precisely the same vigorous and rather dynamic energetic response regardless of gender including vocalizations i dare not write here and chases down the street and so i would not recommend this experiment.
I got the garment check / shoulder squeeze feel in the foyer of the chapel. I said to him in a voice loud enough for those around to hear but not yelling or angry. " please stop molesting me" Smiled and walked on. Was never garment checked or touched again.
I have been out of the wretched cult for 10 years now. The other day I sat in a elementary school play. Some late comers on the row behind us slowly made their way down the row. In my peripheral vision, I could see that it was a couple in their 30's. As the husband passed behind me, even though I had leaned forward a bit, he patted and rubbed my shoulder as he passed by behind me. There was no reason to. It was not a tight squeeze. He did not know me from Joseph Smith or Adam. My first thought was, as chills ran down my spine, "I bet that is a f'ing moron is a Mormon." I was right. During the intermission, I could hear he and his wife talking about the upcoming ward temple trip, and who would cover his young men's scouting activity.
What is the shoulder patting about? It's about a dysfunctional moronic immature approach to normal boundaries. Mormon's don't touch people you don't know. Don't rub them. Don't pat them. Just don't do it asshats.
I think it's generally a variable mix of condescension, a weird need to feel dominant, and genuine feelings of affection for the person being patted. I personally despise being touched by people I don't know that well. I visited my parents' ward meetinghouse recently and had the misfortune of running into an old acquaintance who for some reason thought it was appropriate to keep touching my knee while we spoke (this person had sat down next to me). It definitely made me uncomfortable and I wish I'd had the presence of mind to tell them that I don't like being touched by them. As a side note, there is a weird culture of shoulder/arm patting at my new job. I've had to learn to always be on guard for it so I can job out of the way whenever some boss reaches out for a condescending domination-pat on my body.
Happened to me today. Some obviously Mormon dude at Maverick. He greated me with this condescending smile, then patted me on the shoulder before I could react. That instantly brought me down, and the spot where he touched was still burning an hour later. This is the reason why I hate shaking hands - sometimes it hurts me for hours, it's like you get a shot of someone's dirty energy injected into you. It doesn't happen with everyone, but I HATE when people force a physical contact on me. This is one reason why the Hindus don't shake hands: Namaste! I bow to you! You're not only avoiding sharing bad energy, but back then, at the age of leprosy, potentially saving your own life.
...comes from long history of Mormon PTSD. Back in my years at BYU I met my namesake, only he was the age of my son. He patronized me as if he were my father: "we, we, we", church this and church that. And then he patted me on the shoulder, "good boy".
Needless to say, in 5 years we never talked again.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2019 02:28PM by byugrad.
I agree with you, GPNE, that it is an extension of temple behavior--and that behavior is very creepy! They whisper, which gets them too close into your face, so you can smell and feel their breath. They love to shuffle around in their bedroom slippers and loose robes, which are too much like bed clothes. They touch, push, pull, assist, take off their clothes and put them on again, get naked and anoint, hug strangers and feel their 6-7 points through the veil, talk about the naked Eve in the movie. Add a dose of boredom, and the mind wanders out of control. My brothers-in-law would get very turned on, after being in the temple, and it made me barf to hear about it.
The California Mormons stuck to the American and European business-social protocol, which was to not shake a woman's hand unless SHE offered hers, first. The bishop or other priesthood leaders did not follow this, and were always grabbing little girl's hands, and making them feel awkward. To the boys, the men would squeeze too hard, and cause the boy to writhe in pain and bend towards the ground in submission, and then they would laugh about it. Domination!
In our Utah ward, I was constantly being patted on the shoulder, rubbed across my back, having my knee grabbed while sitting--even in sacrament meeting--by married men. The women never touched me, so that had to be partly sexual, right? Sometimes the shoulder and back rubs were garment feel-ups. Several times, another man would ask the one feeling me up, "Elder, what are you doing? Har-har." I was a professional woman, and I hated the implied domination, condescension, and inappropriate intimacy. These were not relatives or friends. We had no relationship. (Several actually tried to hit on me, verbally, in a very obvious, bumbling manner.) I never felt these people were spiritual or religious.
I was new to Utah, and didn't understand Utah Mormons, and felt it was best to not get too deep into their motives. I was also single, and felt uncomfortable with the wives' reaction to me. So, I simply would push their hand away, step backwards and say, with a polite half-smile, "Hand's off." I had to set that boundary, every time, with everyone, and most of the rudeness stopped.
Insightful comments about the temple "ceremony", some of which, like the close whispering and smells, I never pin-pointed as adding to the distasteful temple atmosphere within its rooms. I remember finally getting to the so-called CK room my first time in the temple, extremely tired of the supposed quietness needed to be in line with spirituality, only to find that here I also was expected to tow the quiet line and hugging atmosphere (gag). I went to the temple about 3 times which was 3 times too many.
I have also been a target for the shoulder patting, the garment feel-up, and the hugging expected by complete strangers in ward houses. I have grown to understand how Mormonism is one fucked-up sex organization, and these tactics, along with many others, are all used to compensate for members who have been trained well by the screwed-up-sick church.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2019 03:26AM by presleynfactsrock.