It is an ordinance where you have your calling and election made sure, meaning that you have a free pass to the celestial kingdom no matter what. No sins from that point on can get you banned from gods presence. It is a fringe doctrine of the church, but a doctrine nevertheless. This is why the church hasn't excommunicated Tom Phillips, and why (from what I understood him saying) they wouldn't accept his resignation. Quite literally, he can't be damned. It is a very embarrassing doctrine, especially since one of the few to get it is now fighting against the church, and since other Christians think it is blasphemy. And most Mormons aren't aware of it. It is another one of those things that makes the rank and file say WTF.
Other Christians think it's blasphemous? I honestly always understood that Christians believe Christ forgives all sins so just believing is your free pass to heaven. So what's their issue?
Xtains (bless their little non-existent souls) believe that you have to repent of your sins and are then forgiven by Jesus Christ. You then go and sin no more (or try, anyway). It's not a free pass given by other humans to anyone. To think another human could forgive your sins is blashpemous...unless you've been drinking - I just can't spell that damn word, it's really not in my vocabulary at all.
See, your definition (repent and try harder and then you can be forgiven for natural shortcomings) is what always made sense to me. But I know sooo many Christians who do whatever they want and when I'm like, hey wait I thought you weren't supposed to do that, they say well I'm forgiven. I know this begins a whole new debate, I'm just clarifying why I asked that question.
No, murder is the one exception, so long as the blood is "innocent". This is why the LDS participating in the Mountain Meadows massacre allowed the small children under age 8 to live. They demonized those over the "age of accountability" as non-innocents due to the false claim of their involvement in the murder of the prophets (either Parley P. Pratt or even Joseph and Hyrum, according to some stories).
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 06:25PM by facsimile3.
That is not my understanding, but am open to clarification. For example, the doctrinal basis for the 2nd anointing is in D&C 132:
26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.
27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.
I believe that is called the first anointing, but I could be wrong. I would have to go back and first remember what my original sources were before I could dig them up, this used to be a hot topic amongst my peers at BYU (we thought we were pretty badass for digging into deep doctrine). So, I guess we can't give a definitive about a bullshit teaching from a bullshit cult :D
So, for all I know,you might actually be right, and I might have things overstated in my memory.
I agree that v26 is ambiguous. My theory is that Joseph Smith was trying to slip it in for those with eyes to see, like where it says, "...and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment...".
The first anointing is the washing and anointing the patron receives preceding the endowment ceremony. All endowed temple members have received their first anointing.
Those who have their second, are sealed up unto exaltation. Those that receive their first, are merely "anointed to become such" in time, depending on their faithfulness. This is explained in the early stages of the endowment.
The covenant to avoid "evil-speaking of the lord's anointed" likely refers to criticizing the celestials who have already been sealed unto exaltation. Of course, since no one knows who has received it (it's a secret), members are left to assume, and to folkloric beliefs. Translated: don't bad mouth the GA's.
The Second Anointing matters because it creates a secret top layer of privileged Mormons.
It is a temple ordinance ordaining both the lucky priesthood holder and his wife to the highest level of the CK and on to godhood over their own planet, no doubt. I'm sure it involves lots of tithing being paid beforehand and excellent connections in an organization known for its nepotism. How do you get nominated to receive a Second Anointing? Somebody who already has it very quietly approaches you and your wife about it.
The rest of the membership keep paying, doing temple work, etc. in the hope and expectation that they're going to the CK. The Secondly Anointed have been certified to go. Maybe that accounts for a lot of the arrogance perceived among prominent, wealthy (royal) Mormons.
Adult of god nli Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The Second Anointing matters because it creates a > secret top layer of privileged Mormons. >
^^ This ^^
The same people who likely never show up to clean toilets, the ones who get marriages in the temple after first marriages fail, the ones who aren't the ones out raking leaves, the ones at whose homes the youth do service projects because they are oh so busy, the ones who don't get their hands yucky with the dirty work, THESE are the ones who get the secret ceremony saying THEY are special to their god, above all the little people.
lostinutah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Please explain for us never Mos and all those who > will undoubtedly be reading about Tom and > wondering.
You get to shake Jesus's hand instead of some asshole in a business suit.
...most Mormons don't know about the 2nd anointing. It's only offered to a very few, select nominees, nominated by those already anointed.
I didn't know about it when I was LDS. It might not have troubled me though. It's just a ceremony, and there's a culture of temple secrecy. And, there's a culture of hero-worship, of believing in very special people who are heavenly high-ups in earthly character.
I posted this on another post, but it might bear repeating here. It is important for our purposes because it SCREAMS CULT CULT CULT! And I think we need a bit of humor today too!
Notloggedon is so right with this: "It is a very embarrassing doctrine, especially since one of the few to get it is now fighting against the church, and since other Christians think it is blasphemy. And most Mormons aren't aware of it. It is another one of those things that makes the rank and file say WTF." - SO MUCH FOR TSCC's DISCERNMENT where Tom is concerned. Oh My!
Oh I hope hope hope that one of the perks of this entire Tommy summons is that the SECOND ANOINTING gets known nationally and internationally. Nothing speaks CULT like meeting Jesus and having your sins forgiven while still alive. Not many TBMs know about the second anointing.
When you really think about it (and I am asking you to,) it's as bad as a late night infomercial......
Imagine this in the TV announcer voice that sounds like God - "Great Mormons everywhere! This is the deal you've been waiting for! Call now and we will do a quick check on how much tithing you have paid in your entire lifetime. If you have enough tithing paid and are in possession of that all important current Temple Recommend, you get to meet Jesus up close and personal!! Yes for a limited time only Jesus is standing by at our celestial kingdom's open all night call center to see who has been paying enough tithing and who hasn't. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity called the "second anointing" and what a blessing it is! Tell them all about it Nephi"
Nephi speaking now - "And when you call now, as a fabulous and exciting bonus, not one, not two, but ALL of your sins including masturbation will be forgiven NOW while you are alive and these nasty sins will remain forgiven FOREVER! Yes we are talking eternally....no sins on your record! This is a great deal. Who wants to wait until you are dead for this marvelous opportunity? And while supplies last a rich friend of yours may receive this opportunity too. But you must call right now while Jesus is standing by. Have your tithing records and current Temple recommend ready and call NOW. For the first 2000 callers, you will also receive this handsome 11" by 17" framed picture of Joseph Smith raping a 12 year old girl with your favorite temple in the background. Just let us know which Temple you want pictured behind the rape scene and it will be yours to cherish and to pass on to future generations. What a blessing this is. You'd be nuts to pass this up. Just make sure when you call that you are able to verify that you have had your first anointing when you took out your endowments. You have to have had your first anointing to be qualified to receive the second one. But that won't be a problem for most of our callers," Remember that Jesus is standing by now so call us."
1st announcer's voice again - "Wait, that's not all! For the next 100 days, you may qualify to have your dead relative receive a second anointing! Yet another blessed event! If your dead relative paid enough tithing during their lifetime, and were anointed within one year of their passing away, and had a current Temple Recommend upon their passing, your can be the proxy for your dead relative's second anointing. Your dead relative will be eternally grateful to you. There will not be another blessing like this so do call now. remember that Jesus is standing by. CALL 1-800-IS FRAUD or 1-800-ANOINT2 now!"
Disclaimer: Offer is only good for people over 50 years old or dead. Sorry younger folks, but you haven't lived long enough to have paid enough tithing, but call your older relatives now.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 07:59PM by verilyverily.
This is the VISION I have of the conversation AFTER the 2nd ANOINTING:
Apostle to the just 2nd anointed person (referred to as the anointee): “You are so blessed indeed. Wasn’t that a tremendously spiritual experience?”
Anointee: “Yes it was fine, but I was expecting…..”
Apostle (rudely interrupting): “Not many of our fold receive such a tremendous blessing. You must be so happy.”
Anointee: “Yes, but I was expecting to …..”
Apostle (rudely interrupting): “The reverence during this blessed experience was palpable, don’t you agree?”
Anointee: “Yes , but I was expecting to see …..”
Apostle (rudely interrupting): “Just think, you will never have another experience so profound as this one. You are one of the truly blessed brethren.”
Anointee: “Yes , but I was expecting to see the Savior, Jesus Christ…..”
Apostle (rudely interrupting): “What? You didn’t see Him? Oh my! Everyone else saw the Savior. He appeared during the Prayer Circle during the second ‘Pay, Lay, Ale’. Weren’t you paying attention?”
Anointee: “Yes , but…..
Apostle (rudely interrupting): “If you did not see the Savior, you are just not worthy enough. You need to repent of your sins and Pray, Pay, and Obey more. Everyone else saw the Savior Jesus Christ right there in the room!”
Anointee: “I tried very hard to be worthy, I fasted and pray………
Apostle (rudely interrupting): Well, you didn’t fast and pray hard enough or long enough. We all say the vision of the Savior except you so its your fault if you didn’t.”
Anointee: “Vision, did you say? A vision? Not the Savior Jesus in the flesh?” What a rip-off….
Apostle (rudely interrupting): “We see everything in visions, not in real flesh and bones, (EXCEPT FOR GOD THAT IS). Whether it be the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd vision, we eventually get it right. That’s why we have a 2nd anointing, just in case the first one didn’t take. Now you go home and fast and pray about this. You are a bad Morgbot!”
Anointe: "No you go to Heck."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 08:28PM by verilyverily.
And of those who do know about it, it is assumed that you literally meet with jesus himself.......and those who have had it, are encouraged to let people assume that they indeed have seen Christ, even though they know damn well that they didn't.
When I was taught about the 2nd Anointing in Seminary, my teacher said that it was basically like getting to skip the line at Disneyland. While the rest of us have to wait until after our final judgement to be given our exaltation, they get it while still on Earth. I was also told that those that receive it will comprise the 144,000 who will be in attendance at the special sacrament meeting Jesus will lead in Jackson County to usher in the Millennium.
@judyblue. That Disneyland line hopping explanation actually makes sense when I think of it as a former TBM. Just enough whimsy and a dash of doctrine thrown in (144K reference).
But now I see it for what it is - stupid empty popularity contest to puff up the super secret members into believing they are even more speshuler than the rest of the chosen people (Mormons) and especially more speshuler than the rest of the 99.9% of the world.
Second anointing or calling and election made sure is the super dee duper of temple ordinances. It is thought that you actually get to see the Savior and could theoretically stop putting your shoulder to the wheel and still make it home to Kolob on high. That is why Tom was perplexed as, albeit a touching moment, he never saw the Lord during the procedure. Those who have done this ordinance are the only ones able to go to hell (son of perdition). The shedding of innocent blood is to deny the holy ghost or in other words sacrifice the lord anew on the cross (not murdering people). Tom is not an untouchable however. He cannot commit sin (according to the doctrine), but his denial of the church makes him a son of perdition (denied the holy ghost) and he will surely go to hell with Satan and all his angels if you believe in that poo.
(In interest of full disclosure, I was posting as NotLoggedIn earlier, since I couldn't log in on the device I was using, I don't want people to think I am trying to puppeteer here or anything.)
I have seen a lot of different (doctrinal) opinions on this, and there is literally no consensus in mormonism on who can go to hell. From my discussions with my (earlier referenced) group at mormonism, there was a strong case for everything from people with the second anointing not being able to be sent to hell for any reason, all the way down to every one of us on RfM being able to qualify as "sons" of perdition if we have at least made temple covenants. There is a huge range of possibilities in the ever morphing world of mormonism and it is hard to pin them down to one interpretation.
Maybe you have a reference I am not remembering or aware of, though. There are so many things out there by various prophets, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if what you are saying is the true story (if there is such a thing in mormonism).
I'm pretty sure I was taught that apostates qualify for outer darkness. To scare people who go through the temple into staying active. "God will not be mocked."
I see it as this: they invented a special bad place that exists exclusively for Satan, Satan's angels, and individuals like soju who made temple covenants and broke them. Mormons get to go to vip super heaven, nice people get to go to heaven classic, and bad people (even Hitler) get to go to heaven lite. But we apostates are obviously worse than Hitler.
[The shedding of innocent blood is to deny the holy ghost or in other words sacrifice the lord anew on the cross (not murdering people). Tom is not an untouchable however.]
D&C 132:27 cited above makes it clear that it is murder. That said, I was taught the same as you describe, but I suspect that is an attempt by the Church to whitewash a doctrine they now find embarrassing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 08:27PM by facsimile3.
When I was TBM, I knew about the Second Annointing. I joined in the 70's, deep doctrines were sometimes discussed in regular meetings like SS or FHE [group meetings]. I had heard about lots of deep dumb doctrines that no one seems to teach anymore. My TBM husband is the KING of deep doctrine discussion. he believes a ton of stupid things Mormon INC. doesn't teach anymore, officially at least. He still believes a lot of the nonsense and I'd bet money he brings these things up sometimes at church.