A regular RfM contributor (who has shared their personal identity with me off-board but who wishes that info to remain confidential here--and who has significant experience in keeping books for Mormon, Inc.--recently relayed to me the following via email correspondence (quoted below with the prior approval, per anonymity, of the source/poster, and titled by this source as "Temple Recommends or Lack Thereof":

"I couldn't help but laugh: Today I viewed an 11.5-page report listing LDS members from one stake (five wards) whom have expired temple recommends. The report has single-line spacing which means there are roughly 350 members sans recommends within the five wards whom are missing out on their temple 'blessings.'"

The informant added in an subsequent email:

"[An] [a]dditional ward sent their data: Increase the 350 to 380 (six wards reporting in). . . .

"I'll continue to watch for other questions. If I miss one, just send it via an email."


My reply:

"OK, Will let you know if other questions are put to you here from the board."

Rough Stone Crumbling.


(*ONGOING NOTE: This post is being updated as the source continues to provide additional information)


I thanked the source for the info (which they are aware is now up on RfM).

The source wrote back:

"You're welcome. The stake's quarterly report is available. The stats are less encouraging than the last one [an earlier report shared with me that I have not yet posted on RfM]. <Snicker.>"


I responded:

"What are the stats from the stake's quarterly report? Have they a name--and can you give them to me through the email veil? (with, of course, due note made of any sensitive info that requires protection)."


The source's answer:

"1/4 of endowed members do not hold TRs [temple recommends].

"Only 6 converts in the last 12 month period."

*****


**UPDATED RESPONSES from the source to specific inquires in this thread made by other posters:

--from "want2bx":

"Thanks for sharing. I've always known that the church keeps records on everything. But, just the thought of the church generating a list filled with hundreds of names of potential apostates has a high creep factor for me."


--Source's reply:

"TR [Temple Recommend] Apostate list: Name, date of endowment, date of last recommend, expiration date, address, and phone number."
_____


--from "Heartless":

"Is there an additional statistic of how many current recommend holders actually use them?"


--Source's reply:

"There is a new format for the quarterly reports beginning this past quarter. It contains additional categories, but TR usage is not one of them."
_____


--from "Saucie":

"Is that a stake in Utah or elsewhere?"


--Source's reply:

"A stake in Utah."
_____



--from "anon for this one":

". . . [A]s for their 6 converts, I think we can pretty much assume those were 6 kids that turned eight!"


--Source's reply:
​
"The six converts were 4 adults and two children over the age of 8."

*****


Through all of this, the source expresses appreciation for the respect shown for their personal choice of taking a low-profiled approach:

​"Thank you for protecting my anonymity. . . . The thread should close shortly. Thanks for protecting my identity."

Hey, you're welcome. (P.S.: The thread will probably be continued in a Part 2)

:)



Edited 27 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 09:04PM by steve benson.

Oh how the work is being hastened by the one true church...

Jeezus...that's have the stake, and supposedly active members. The cream of the crop...starting to sour.

And even the very elect are being, I don't know... enlightened?

!

Recommends are good for two years now, and I'd bet that there are many more in that stake that have learned the truth in the last two years. I just woke up last year, and my recommend doesn't expire for another several months. Besides that, I know some members that keep active recommends, but never attend. I used to "serve" with a guy that was a believing member, pays tithing, keeps his recommend up to date, etc... I asked him if he had been to the temple last year around the time the new videos came out. He laughed and said he hadn't attended in many years.

Yep. I know/know of quite a few people who have found out the truth just within the last two years, myself included.

And my parents and other extended family members keep current temple recommends, but rarely attend the temple, if ever.

So yeah, add that all up, and it's looking a bit dire for the cult, in my opinion.

I just renewed mine a few months ago. I'm good for two years. I don't believe a word of it anymore.

So how much would that be per cent wise?

Probably not as important as the facts being that these are the people that are keeping LDS Inc financially afloat...

And...

The number of people abandoning LDS Inc will grow exponentially in the future.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 07:50PM by steve benson.

It used to be that if you didn't want to be the Bishop anymore you had to move. And who dares to say NO to a calling when it is a given that you never turn one down? But now that the GA's have determined that you must have a TR to hold a calling, just don't renew it. No more awkward fidgeting while trying to say 'no' and no more having to move out of town is needed. And who's going to force you to get one?

We can only hope.

This post is great. When I was still TBM 2-1/2 years ago, my Bishop sat down with me and discussed some of his concerns. There were three:

1) We are not being instructed by the Holy Ghost in our Sacrament Meetings.

2) There is a shortage of teaching with the Holy Ghost in the Elder's and High Priest Quorums. Too many are just not feeling the spirit edify them.

and

3) Temple attendance for the stake is horrendous. He had just met with the Stake President and was told that of those that have temple recommends only 1% attend the Oakland Temple. He said we have an epidemic. The numbers of previously endowed members without current temple recommends has never been worse.

This is in the heart of the San Jose California Mission. I'd really like to know how my old stake compares to the stats in the OP. Keep updating Mr. B. It's great to read that the epidemic is not just striking in my old home turf. Maybe the epidemic is a pandemic - just a mouse click away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 06:31PM by jiminycricket.

Thanks for sharing. I've always known that the church keeps records on everything. But, just the thought of the church generating a list filled with hundreds of names of potential apostates has a high creep factor for me.

Those are the "low hanging fruit" that are the focus of attention. If they become active again, they are ready-made leaders because they have all of the things needed to step into roles that help a ward run. Wards that carry that kind of a burden are "leadership depleted" and while they may have large numbers of members there are too few to carry the load as SLC envisions it. They, the active temple recommend holders, get more tired, less appreciated, angry, guilt-ridden and may soon find reasons to make the cog-dis stop.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 07:14PM by steve benson.

I would not think that to be surprising that only 1/4 of endowed members hold recommends. When I was TBM I knew quite a few people that were endowed years ago, but just quit attending the temple, got lazy or didn't like it, (BORING), and didn't bother to get their rec's renewed. I would have actually expected that number to be a lot larger that 1/4 nowadays. I am honestly surprised it is that low.

And as for their 6 converts, I think we can pretty much assume those were 6 kids that turned eight!

A close friend of mine who is still partially active but has no belief whatsoever any longer has 2 sons that are MD's, and both have figured it out, the lies of the church they were raised in. I think both served missions, but not sure on that. Because of business, and family reasons they remain on the fringe, but do not pay tithing or hold callings any longer. I am sure the church hates losing all that money!

It would have to be kids turning 9 or more to count as converts. However, that is precisely what some of the "converts" are.

Most of the rest are hormonal converts or people in transition (divorce, health issues, recently moved, lost job, etc).

Is there an additional statistic of how many current recommend holders actually use them?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 07:37PM by steve benson.

Good work Steve and anonymous poster.

I hate posting anonymously here, I really do, but I must. Pretty much all of you know me from way back by a previous name, but circumstances in my life have made it impossible to keep my posting name and NOT be tracked by active family members who I am very much trying to keep peace with and show respect for. It has not been easy, but I still learn much here from all of you. I thank you for that.

Don't beat yourself up too much about it. If you can't tell everybody who you are, then don't do it. It doesn't make you any less of a good person.

All, very interesting. I wanted to add something sort of related to this topic I have found MOST interesting. I am still semi-active, female, grandmother and teacher.

This past year I have been shocked at how many of the missionaries have come home early since the lowering of the age for leaving a year ago.

Many of the boys in our stake, 4 in OUR ward, and a majority of the girls in the stake have come home after only being out about 3-6 months. The reason for their coming home early that I keep hearing from their parents is that it is just too hard to get along without their I-phones, etc.

Most do have internet access in order to email home on p-days, and my question is this, "Are they learning things online about the many and varied stories of church history and changing doctrines that are causing them to lose their testimonies?" Could that be what is sending so many home early?

Have any of you witnessed this trend in the areas you live; I live in the morridor.

Is that a stake in Utah or elsewhere?

steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t

Thank you.

After reading all of the comments one thing is perfectly clear... TSCC will not be changing the policy on the one year mandatory waiting period to be sealed in the temple for couples who marry outside the temple.

If this change is made in the United States, tithing and temple attendance will drop like a rock.

Why would it drop? If couples are going to be sealed, now or a year from now, they and anyone attending need to have recommends.

People would go to the non-temple weddings and skip the sealings. If they don't need temple recommends to attend weddings, they wouldn't bother keeping temple standards. This would result in a major loss of tithing dollars.

Edit: This would also have the effect of Un-demonizing non-temple weddings, as more and more people would have regular weddings before getting sealed soon after.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 10:04PM by smoteheadofshiz.

steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A regular RfM contributor (who has shared their
> personal identity with me off-board but who wishes
> that info to remain confidential here--and who
> has significant experience in keeping books for
> Mormon, Inc.--recently relayed to me the
> following via email correspondence (quoted below
> with the prior approval, per anonymity, of the
> source/poster, and titled by this source as
> "Temple Recommends or Lack Thereof":
>
> "I couldn't help but laugh: Today I viewed an
> 11.5-page report listing LDS members from one
> stake (five wards) whom have expired temple
> recommends. The report has single-line spacing
> which means there are roughly 350 members sans
> recommends within the five wards whom are missing
> out on their temple 'blessings.'"
>
> The informant added in an subsequent email:
>
> " dditional ward sent their data: Increase the
> 350 to 380 (six wards reporting in). . . .
>
> "I'll continue to watch for other questions. If I
> miss one, just send it via an email."
>
>
> My reply:
>
> "OK, Will let you know if other questions are put
> to you here from the board."
>
> Rough Stone Crumbling.
>
>
> (*ONGOING NOTE: This post is being updated as the
> source continues to provide additional
> information)
>
>
> I thanked the source for the info (which they are
> aware is now up on RfM).
>
> The source wrote back:
>
> "You're welcome. The stake's quarterly report is
> available. The stats are less encouraging than
> the last one . "
>
>
> I responded:
>
> "What are the stats from the stake's quarterly
> report? Have they a name--and can you give them
> to me through the email veil? (with, of course,
> due note made of any sensitive info that requires
> protection)."
>
>
> The source's answer:
>
> "1/4 of endowed members do not hold TRs .
>
> "Only 6 converts in the last 12 month period."
>
> *****
>
>
> **UPDATED RESPONSES from the source to specific
> inquires in this thread made by other posters:
>
> --from "want2bx":
>
> "Thanks for sharing. I've always known that the
> church keeps records on everything. But, just the
> thought of the church generating a list filled
> with hundreds of names of potential apostates has
> a high creep factor for me."
>
>
> --Source's reply:
>
> "TR Apostate list: Name, date of endowment, date
> of last recommend, expiration date, address, and
> phone number."
> _____
>
>
> --from "Heartless":
>
> "Is there an additional statistic of how many
> current recommend holders actually use them?"
>
>
> --Source's reply:
>
> "There is a new format for the quarterly reports
> beginning this past quarter. It contains
> additional categories, but TR usage is not one of
> them."
> _____
>
>
> --from "Saucie":
>
> "Is that a stake in Utah or elsewhere?"
>
>
> --Source's reply:
>
> "A stake in Utah."

It used to be common that people would get temple recommends only when they needed them -- for their own endowment and sealing and for when their children and grandchildren went for their endowments/sealing. But that meant they could go for years being less than full tithe payers. So the church made a big effort to change things, pressuring the faithful or quasi faithful to go to the temple often, which meant always having a valid recommend. Then the brethren started making a recommend required for various callings and to perform ordinances. Gotta keep those tithes coming. But it looks like a significant number of members aren't going with the program. Good for them.

Members are finding out the church is a fraud in much larger numbers even in the last 5 years.

My hunch is by 2020 the effects of members leaving the Mormon church will be undeniable.

It's crumbling away more each month.

NY Times article on GA Hans Matteson leaving the church in Sweden was read by millions.

Monson and the others are crapping their garmies; the Jig is up for the cult, They got found out.

A demonstration of the future of Mormonism...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KEdM6Ys6spA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 09:12PM by deco.

That is EXACTLY what I think! I said so in a post earlier, I think just that figure has GOT to be wrong, or else that is just one really active stake.

I would bet church wide it is more like 25-30%. Years ago my ex was the Bishop, and he mentioned a lot how very much people neglected to go to the Temple. ( Oh, what a shame!) , and he mentioned ALOT how very hard it was to get at least half of active members to take callings. This was 20 years ago, or maybe more.

If 75% of endowed members hold recommends, I wouldn't think it would be a rate to cheer about. That seems high to me.

Sorry, my post was supposed to be in reply to yours "Devoted Exmo", but somehow got posted above yours, I agree totally with you. 75% would be a numbers the mo's would be thrilled about!!!

It would be interesting to do a percentile comparison from 5 and 10 years ago.

Those would be some fascinating numbers.

It would also be interesting to see an age breakdown of recommend holders.

My guess would be a lot in the 12 to 15 year old and a lot of elderly ones.

Because the church is perfect.

Right?

Steve, this is my list for wards and stakes:

1. Total MOR, #adults versus #kids.
2. reported ASMA, actual ASMA
3. Total TR holders
4. Endowments/year
5. Total tithing/year, FO/year
6. Breakdown of annual baptisms
7. Number of DCs, #EXs, #DFs, # resignations

This info from your source would be awesome.