Henry Bemis Wrote:
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> COMMENT: Yes. That is the only way I understand
> it too. And frankly I am skeptical that this
> would occur, because regardless of our
> metaphysical views, and in this case doubts, the
> compulsion to exercise "freewill" even if believed
> to be illusory, is nonetheless compelling. But, we
> do not have the benefit of the entire study.
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> So, one's confusions, whatever they
> are, should not affect the reality of the exercise
> of freewill. But, the study cited by Human seems
> to say otherwise.
For PhELPs and Bemis, on how belief in free-will and disbelief in free-will affects our ability to choose:
There are lots of studies on this, easily got at via google. I remember a Dennett lecture I once posted on free-will wherein he highlighted a study with very dramatic results using 'Francis Crick's Astonishing Hypothesis' as the catalysis for disbelief.
Here's a study, unfortunately behind a pay-wall (would that Aaron Swartz was able to persevere, RIP), by Roy F. Baumeister and Lauren E. Brewer:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1751-9004.2012.00458.x/abstractThe Abstract:
"Some people believe more than others in free will, and researchers have both measured and manipulated those beliefs. Disbelief in free will has been shown to cause dishonest, selfish, aggressive, and conforming behavior, and to reduce helpfulness, learning from one’s misdeeds, thinking for oneself, recycling, expectations for occupational success, and actual quality of performance on the job. Belief in free will has been shown to have only modest or negligible correlations with other variables, indicating that it is a distinct trait. Belief in free will has correlated positively with life satisfaction and finding life meaningful, with self-efficacy and self-control, with low levels of stress, and (though not entirely consistently) with internal locus of control. High belief in free will has been linked to a punitive attitude toward wrongdoers and lower forgiveness toward them. The belief seems to involve a sense of agency and expecting others to behave in morally responsible fashion."
Our old friend robertb turned me onto Baumeister's "Willpower":
http://www.amazon.com/Willpower-Rediscovering-Greatest-Human-Strength-ebook/dp/B0052REQCYIn the book, Baumeister clearly shows that willpower can be trained, increased and strengthened. If it isn't an actual free-will that is being strengthened, PhELPS, what is it?
And the opposite is apparently true, too, one's free-will can be weakened and manipulated and perhaps removed. If it isn't an actual free-will that is being manipulated, what is?
Obviously either way, the old quote mis-attributed to Mr. Henry Ford holds:
"Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right."
Here's an old groaner:
Thinking
If you think you are beaten, you are
If you think you dare not, you don't,
If you like to win, but you think you can't
It is almost certain you won't.
If you think you'll lose, you're lost
For out of the world we find,
Success begins with a fellow's will
It's all in the state of mind.
If you think you are outclassed, you are
You've got to think high to rise,
You've got to be sure of yourself before
You can ever win a prize.
Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man,
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the man WHO THINKS HE CAN!
--Walter D. Wintle--
For my part, the world of athletics is enough to demonstrate every-day free-will. I agree with PhELPS that when thought about deeply the idea can become muddled, but that's the *idea* not the thing itself.
Lastly, here's Robert Wright and John Horgan going at it a few years ago:
http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/3053?in=16:41&out=32:38I sympathize with Horgan's exasperation with Wright just as I agree with Wright's utter dismissal of Dennett's "Freedom Evolves", a book that has fooled a lot of very smart people, including a very smart past RfMer.
Anyway, cheers
Human