Do you think the mormon church is a cult? Why or why not?

It is a cult. just Google cult.

I used to strongly defend the church against the claim of it being a cult. Even after I left.

I've been out long enough now that I can see it clearly for what it is - a cult!

Cult because of the mind manipulation and the mind games that goes on to keep people in check. Above and beyond something like Catholic guilt.

Although would we call an Islamic religion a cult, and some of those are pretty hardcore when it comes to controlling hearts and minds.

Most members of cults don't have the perspective to see their own organization that way.

Control issues are many and varied with Mormons and in other cults. They want to control eating, drinking, clothing and underwear choices, sex, marriage, time management, money, reading material, and recreation.

Many Mormons assume all churches have strict rules about these issues. No, that's only the case with those which are highly cultish like the Mormon church.

Any cult attribute which doesn't apply to general membership is evident in the missionary program which is a cult within a cult.

More like destructive cult.

The LDS church manages to hide its cultiness in plain sight primarily because many many members are very nice people and hold responsible positions in the workplace and community.

Don't be fooled by appearances; it meets every definition of a cult when you strip back the veneer. Every definition.

Keeping people emotionally stunted by design is the main giveaway IMO.

Yes, beyond question. It has all the recognized signs of a CULT. The fact that it is larger than most doesn't matter in the least. It's still a CULT and has been from the start.

It's a 'daft' cult and is very expensive financially and potentially psychologically damaging.

It's the only place I have ever been where Adults seem to behave like infants. lol

Let me put it to you this way: I found RfM through an investigation of cults. No kidding.

So, yes. Cult. Textbook destructive organization. An example for wannabe cult leaders everywhere.

Igor: "Hump? What hump?!"

Yes, it's a classic thought control cult.

Mormonism retains members by discouraging the development of critical thinking skills and by having members separate themselves from outsiders philosophically into their own Mormon world. They give up their moral identity to the church so they never develop one of their own. Tell me that's not a cult.

The implications of this are quite enormous but too involved to get into in this post. It takes a long time to get your head around it. Suffice it to say that the other posters aren't exaggerating when they say that the cult is very psychologically damaging.

Have you been through the temple? Go through a session and there will be no doubt that you are in a cult. Even as a believing member I felt that the temple made the church a cult.

A kooky cult with cultural roots in the occult which now specializes in occultation of of said cultural roots.

By definition, all religions are cults.
In the modern, anecdotal, negative sense of the word, TSCC also is a cult.
So any way you cut it -- it's a cult.

Some versions of religion do have respect for the autonomy of the individual.

When my parent's liberal X'tian Church declares to members that their finances will now be secret, that some of their services will now be secret and restricted to only tithe payers, the institution of an aggressive recruiting program, what beverages they are allowed to consume, what kind of underwear they must wear, where to send their kids to college, that other religions do not have the "truth", that they in their religion are better than others, that only their group will get into heaven....etc etc.....then I will begin to worry that they may be in a cult tactic group.

2+2=4 Wrote:
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> Some versions of religion do have respect for the
> autonomy of the individual.


The longstanding use of the word carries no negative connotation:

Cult
noun
1.a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers:
the physical fitness cult.
3.the object of such devotion.
4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6.a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

Notice the negative, modern, anecdotal usage doesn't come in until #6...by the first five, all religions are cults.

Sad to hear about what's going on in that other church, though :(

I do understand the distinction but I think it doesn't answer the OP's question. It's just some semantic point about oh wow, what does the word cult really mean. It's just a distraction, just muddies the water.


You have misunderstood, my parent's church does not do any of those things. Nor do they caution members not to use the Internet or read "anti-material".


Not all religions are exactly the same. Radical Islamists are not Episcopalians.

2+2=4 Wrote:
> You have misunderstood, my parent's church does
> not do any of those things. Nor do they caution
> members not to use the Internet or read
> "anti-material".

Yes, I did -- I thought you were sarcastically saying they WERE doing those things. My bad.

> Not all religions are exactly the same. Radical
> Islamists are not Episcopalians.

I've never thought they were.
My point, though, in pointing out that all religions are cults wasn't just semantic; it was that all religions use at least some of the "negative" cult tactics. And that "cultism" is fundamentally a giving up (voluntarily or otherwise) individuality and thought to be part of the group. There is as much variation in religions as there are frequencies in the visual spectrum of light -- but the analogy makes a point: all visible light is electromagnetic radiation of varying wavelengths, all religions are cults of varying "cultiness."

That #6 definition should be read again -- it gets applied to whatever religion is a minority and "odd," oftentimes, by whatever religion is a majority and "typical." The point is that "odd" doesn't mean "wrong," and "typical" doesn't mean "right." A more objective point of view is far more useful :)

I learned in a BYU freshman Sociology classes that it was a cult. It was a class with about 300 students. We discussed the reason why it is a cult by definition by the young Mormon professor for 2 class periods. Cult. I was even a believing TBM at the time and was able to accept that it was a cult. Mormons are kidding themselves if they don't think they are just an American cult.

ThatLittleBriggyWentWeeWeeWee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I learned in a BYU freshman Sociology classes that
> it was a cult. It was a class with about 300
> students. We discussed the reason why it is a cult
> by definition by the young Mormon professor for 2
> class periods. Cult. I was even a believing TBM at
> the time and was able to accept that it was a
> cult. Mormons are kidding themselves if they don't
> think they are just an American cult.
_____________________________________

I'm surprised the professor wasn't summonsed into church kangaroo court for teaching that!

That could be grounds for excommunication for calling a spade a spade.

The social coercion of a cult is even built into the doctrine.

The mormon doctrine of "Celestial Marriage" says that a Mormon is not truly worthy and will not reap all the joys of the hereafter unless they are temple-married to another TBM.

So if one spouse wakes up and decides that it's all a bunch of malarkey, the other spouse is incentivized by their belief system to pressure the non-believing spouse into staying in the organization. Based on stories I've read here, it gets really ugly at times.

Closely related to the "Families are Forever" belief, which causes various members of TBM family units to pressure other wavering family members to remain mormon.

Mormon temple marriage is also a nifty way to extort tithing.

Nothing like the level of coercion in Mormonism in the liberal religion I was brought up in.

"Celestial Marriage" is polygamous "sealings" and not temple marriage as you have implied. Most mormons today make the same mistake. Section 132 was given well before the completion of the Nauvoo temple and JSs sealings were being regularly performed at secret (non-holy) locations.

Temple mormonism was instituted to protect these secret polygamous sealings. After JS learned the masonic oaths, he saw that they would be very useful in protecting his secret relationships with teens and married women and, as a result, created the so-called temple endowment which swore his chosen followers to absolute secrecy under penalty of death.

Thanks. Yes, I understand that the Eternal and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is Polygamy as defined in D&C 132. But functionally, the way it works in modern day mormonism is the way I have described, is it not? Since the Feds pretty much shut down the polygamist part of the operation?

The term Celestial Marriage is described at LDS.org in this way, last time I looked.

I've been out of the church for some time (over 35 years), but I always heard marriages in the temple called "temple marriages" back then. I don't recall anyone calling the ceremony that was done in the sixties "celestial marriage".

If the church today is calling temple marriage "celestial marriage" it's just another attempt to erase polygamy from their past and is a damn lie like so many others. The early members clearly meant polygamy when they spoke of "celestial marriage".

A multi-billion dollar corporation masquerading as a church with vast real estate holdings run by a very secretive bureaucracy who coerces it's membership to contribute money to support it under threat of loss of "blessings" and benefits should they fall short of their financial obligations. They also discourage their members to do any research which could lead to questions about the church's history and ultimately, apostasy, which would lead to a member being excommunicated. What about that doesn't scream "CULT"?

Ron Burr



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2015 02:31PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

Yes. Just look at the response to those who voted no on sustaining the general authorities at the latest GC. The only places that have unanimous votes are the old USSR, North Korea, and Cults.

Most people (even mormons) consider groups like the Hari Krishna or Moonies as Cults. Look at the mormon requirements for a mission. Told when to get up, when to go to bed, how to dress, how to groom, what to do every minute of every day, always with a companion to report violations, and limited contact with the family and outside world (TV, newspapers) other than to recruit members.

If you showed that list to a mormon and said "this is what moonies do, are they a Cult?" they would probably say yes. Then ask them how that is different from a mormon mission.

I prefer to use Steven Hassan's BITE model when evaluating if a group steps over the cult line because it allows for a spectrum of experiences. The evaluation is based on how much control is exerted over the lives of adherents in the areas of:

Behavior

Information

Thought

Emotions

https://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php

"It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mindcontrolled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently."

TSCC still believes wholeheartedly in polygamy. They have just stopped it for now on earth. Heavenly polygamy is still totally doctrine.

Yes it is a cult. You are not allowed to think for yourself (follow the prophet and your leaders), you are flawed (all have sinned and come short of the glory of god), you need fixing (salvation), You must pay money to be saved. (tithing).

It is sad and frustrating to have my past tied to mormonism and live with the things that I did and believed.

Steve Hassan's BITE model and his website are full of excellent information about mind control and how Cults today recruit and retain members and destroy their self-identity.

Steve spoke at a RFM conference about the topic and identified mormonism as a cult. Search youtube for the videos of his talk.

I'll sit on the fence where the modern church is concerned (calling it a corporation is spot-on, of course) in part because the definition I learned in a grad archaeology class was that the difference between a cult and a religion is a religion survives the death of its founder.

I'll fall back on a bit of pragmatism: I don't think calling it a cult is "useful" in terms of leading people away from the indoctrination they've experienced all their lives. I give ex-Mormons the privilege of referring to it as a cult, but I'll refrain from doing so myself.

I'll add that one of the high points of my association with the Exmormon community was attending Stephen Hassan's presentation at an Exmo Conference a few years ago. He certainly deserves his stature as one of the world's leading authorities on toxic cults. And he did point to numerous examples of "church mind control" that are consistent with cult practices. It's certainly legitimate to call attention to those practices and raise the issue of how "Divine Revelation" isn't what it's cracked up to be.

I'll bow to the immortal Edward Abbey's analysis about the modern LDS faith...

"Nothing that ridiculous could be all bad."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2015 08:06PM by SL Cabbie.

It has a memory hole, has someone telling you that up is really down, has excommunication in place to ban you with a scarlet letter, rules and more rules to be obeyed, not that you vote in, but rules handed to you, and dues that must be paid to get you in the holy of holies.

Are these things that make you feel like a person who is forging his own destiny, learning to think, and caring about himself and others?

Not in the least. It is a cult running your life for its own goals of prosperity and power. You are told you are important now and then, but it is only words with no real meaning.

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A multi-billion dollar corporation masquerading as
> a church with vast real estate holdings run by a
> very secretive bureaucracy who coerces it's
> membership to contribute money to support it under
> threat of loss of "blessings" and benefits should
> they fall short of their financial obligations.
> They also discourage their members to do any
> research which could lead to questions about the
> church's history and ultimately, apostasy, which
> would lead to a member being excommunicated. What
> about that doesn't scream "CULT"?
>
>________________________________

In that sense it seems more like a massive MLM scheme. The tithe offerings flow upward, and maintains the status quo of the top echelon, while the plebs slave away below to support the pyramid.

The GA are mostly business men masquerading as church leaders.

A cult only in the sense that they seem as sincere in their erroneous beliefs as the laypeople do. Which also makes no sense to me, that they can be so deceived at the same time they're fleecing members of precious time and resources.

I wonder what the GA does with their doubts, in their private moments when not addressing the laypeople or other GA members? Why aren't there more defecting from the top echelon, and owning up to the masquerade? Are they more afraid to leave? Or more deceived than we were? Are they more fools to stay or go?

The church is run like a very large Ponzi scheme.

Hell, they are fixed up for life. Why would they want to leave a very good thing (for them)?

That's the greater deception, isn't it?

Not owning up to their own doubts and fears for fear of the glass floor collapsing.