There's a lot more ecuminicalism going on. Recall who teamed up to pass prop 8- The Catholics and TSCC. They sense they are losing, so are teaming up a lot lately.
...a very liberal wing of the Lutheran church. "Evangelical" here is quite the misnomer, as Evangelicals hold to Biblical inerrency, the divinity of Christ, and traditional salvation-by-Grace-alone theology. The "Evangelical Lutheran Church" is rather slippery on these matters, and is religiously more liberal like United Methodists, the United Church in Christ, and most of the Episcopal Church.
So the ELCA would be very comfortable with ecumenism with pseudp-Christian groups like LDS and Christian Science. Since they don't believe in a final judgement or the need to repent of sin or anythig, "hey, what's the problem here?"
You are correct. Those of us in the ELCA are live and let live kind of folks. However, we do think you should do community service (and not wearing yellow shirts). As long as the Moron's are not trying to convert us, we are civil.
As part of my confirmation we attended a synagoge, Catholic Mass (so we could see why Luther was right) and a couple other local churches. It was all in the name of learning. This could just be the Synod offering that kind of information to their members. Who knows WHAT was said in the closed meetings.
Yes we ELCA Lutherans are an ecumenical group and what some see as slippery I see as progressive. I'm sure the Morg only used Bishop Elizabeth's presence to show how wonderfully kind the TSCC is and will get a good photo op for the Church News.
For the record, "evangelicals" is the name given to Lutherans in Germany. Evangelicals spread the Word of God, it has nothing to do with views on Biblical inference, ordination of women, GLBT rights, etc. I don't beat up on Evangelical Christians for their views, so please don't beat up on my church for being more inclusive.
As to the Last Judgement, ELCA Lutherans believe in it, but we leave that to God, not to humankind.
The Boner.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2015 02:16PM by byuboner.
ecumenical. Those of us who hold to orthodoxy have a stake in pointing out the differences between our views and those of the Mormon gospel because we believe that the differences matter. And while I always am one to agree to disagree this is a place where I have a bone to pick with those who like to think of themselves as "liberal Christians". Note here that Mormons are able to use those who fit in this category of belief (I would call it "nonbelief" for their own PR benefit. Here we have a piece showing how "ecumenical" Mormons are...aren't they so nice??? I suspect that the members of the focus group in a BYU alumni magazine piece—recently the subject of a thread here on this board—are from the same group of "liberal Christians". The author of the article stated that the members of the focus group were put off by poor behaviour and that said bad behaviour didn't exist these people would possibly be Mormons themselves. Of course it's possible that the opinions of the focus group were purposely being misinterpreted (or misrepresented entirely—in fact perhaps there was no such group at all)however I don't think any self-respecting orthodox Christian would allow themselves to be part of a group that was quite obviously fishing for information to help the Mormons at all and/or would not make sure to voice other more valid reasons for their objections to Mormonism other than poor behaviour on the part of Mormons. But instead a "liberal Christian"—those who hold no real "belief" in the doctrines of Christianity would have no substantial objections to the faith other than those based on the poor actions of its members.
Yes, the ELCA does take a live-and-let-live stance. When my children were attending confirmation classes with an ELCA congregation, we occasionally took the the group to attend the services of other denominations. We attended Greek Orthodox, Pentecostal, and Baptist, among others. It was interesting and informative. The agenda was not to prove other groups wrong, just to inform our students that others had different ways of worship.
I guess I've been away from Mormonism for too long but when did they add the "fourth mission" to care for the poor and the needy to the three-fold mission of the church? Probably around the time they cut the City Creek ribbon I'd wager...
Another thing that stood out. The 70 addressed "some 300 voting members of the Lutheran church's assembly Saturday,". Voting members?!? Maybe not so much common ground after all..
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2015 02:55PM by greensmythe.
But it is ironic that LDS chose a liberal Protestant group to get cozy with for an ecumenical group hug--not Fundamentalist or (American-style) Evangelical, who regard them as a heretical cult. They want to pass as "Christian," so they pose as as "Evangelistic" (to coin a term), especially on social issues, salvation-by-grace, women's ordination, and displaying the once-abhorred Cross.
Then they affiliate with liberal Lutherans. A bonus: because of the word "Evangelical," most people think this is a conservative denomination. What a mess.
...or even better yet, Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS), whose website states that the Pope is the Anti-Christ (shades of Bruce R McConkie). Michelle Bachman was a member of a WELS congregation, but tried to hide it by claiming in her public info press package that she was "Evangelical Lutheran". Most persons, myself included, would assume that Evangelical Lutheran is short for ELCA--Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. During the tv debate for her first campaign for Congress, a reporter called her out on it and made her admit she is WELS, not ELCA, and asked her point blank if she believed the Pope is an Anti-Christ.
I'm not sure Catholic-bashing is a part of WELS credo, but organizing pro-life (anti-abortion) groups in its high schools is certainly the norm with them.
What's happening here is typical cultic public relations.
On the one hand, a cult likes to appear "normal" and "orthodox" -- "Hey, we're just a regular church like the rest of you folks!"
On the other hand, cults have distinctive, often weird doctrines, practices, and history, which they cannot easily disavow. (1) They would have to admit they were wrong on things (imagine denying the First Vision!), and (2) These distinctive beliefs are important to oldsters, who would be seriously disaffected for them to be repudiated outrght.
So the cult goes along awkwardly, quietly upholding such doctrines while de-emphasizing them until the oldsters have passed on. Then (like the Adam-God doctrine) they are quietly abandoned. As that process continues, the cult is less heterodox and appears more orthodox--especially as other churches' orthodoxy is similarly eroded.
And what do you get? Everybody in a big group hug, affirming everybody else. Orthodox believers become increasingly diminished in numbers and marginalized in influence--and vulnerable to persecution.