cheezus’s post: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1854172
got me thinking about this again.

I’ve said this before but I think it needs to be broadcast to the masses.

I wish, wish, wish someone who can do simple but nifty charts that can show the future value of money for different level of LDS tithe payers would put something on the web to make this absolutely clear.

My thoughts are not necessarily perfect but I’ll try to covey them best I can. Please elaborate better than I if you can.

Paying 10% tithing for the average Joe LDS family is slow financial death. The family gets locked into a kind of financial limbo. Also that death comes with a double whammy. The added factor is the negative effect. Pay $500 this month and you are in the negative five hundred dollars. Getting back to zero means gaining that money back without the benefit of interest on that money. It can’t appear out of nowhere so must be replaced by extra hours worked, a part time job or some other means. (I think this is why many LDS families get involved with MLM”S. Over time they begin to see no increase in their financial situation so they turn to get rich quick schemes)


It’s the tithe payer that is blessing the upper echelons in the church not god. Tithing funds all the church does out of the purview of the members. Look at the apartment complex the church just bought in Texas. Will that ever get reported in General Conference, in the Ensign? Certainly not.
I will make an assumption here but there must be several thousand people in the upper management level of the LDS Corporation that benefit directly from tithing income including their spouses and children. The members see their brothers and sisters who benefit from corporation investments that require managers and upper level officers to operate and who get compensated mightily and members think it’s because these folks living in opulence on the tithe payer’s dime are blessed by doing the “lords” work. Let’s not even get started on the back room deals that are never discussed or made known to the peasants.

Back to the tithe paying Joe.

Let’s take a $60k a year guy. He pays his loyal 10% at $6K per year. Let’s assume his salary never goes up.

At $500 a month for 20 years that is $120,000. At 30 years that is $180,000. No interest.
Now invest that same $500 at 3% for 20 years and it becomes $602,426. 30 years at 3% is well, you don’t want to know.

3% is basically the average level of inflation so you really only kept an even keel, if that is, the money was invested.

So for the average Joe LDS he did not give the church $120K over 20 years. He gave the church $602K and likely far more because Joes tithing also pays for professional investment advice that Joe will never afford.

So Joe lost the ability to keep up with inflation, the ability to earn money on investing that same money, the ability to pay for decent cars, education, vacations, to retire without worry or badly needed medical help. Joe gets stifled in continuous financial limbo with no way to ever, ever, ever get back to zero.

So how wrong am I? And can one of you financial wizards please make this a CES letter sort of thing for the money side of the church NOT telling the truth and how it affects a family financially?

I would use it as a point of factual information to help my kids see the light on the financial impacts aspect of being an LDS member.

Thanks.

AmIDarkNow?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2016 11:44AM by AmIDarkNow?.

AmiDarkNow,

Everyone paying tithing pays with different parts of their family income. Our family had less because of tithing: but we had less "toys" (material possessions), less luxury, less entertainment, less vacations, less "house" (smaller home in a less prestigious neighbourhood) and I took the bus to work.

I structured our finances as follows: picture a chart with 3 boxes. Box 1: has home, food, transportation, insurance, education, investments and other essentials; Box 2: is tithing; Box 3: has recreation, entertainment, vacations, fast offerings and all discretionary spending.

We always paid Box 1 first; then Box 2 (if funds available); and then we would have a family meeting to decide how to allocate Box 3. Therefore, tithing was either the lowest priority essential or highest priority discretionary expense (depending on how you looked at it).

Notice that investments went into Box 1 (high priority). I told my wife that I wasn't working for nothing (in other words without savings).

I know someone will exclaim, "This is not what they were taught at Church about budgeting and financial management. Always pay tithing FIRST." I was never swayed: I would always listen to teaching at Church and then adapt to my own circumstances.

I also learned the reason why so many LDS leaders are businessmen. A business is an excellent method to hide income from both the Bishop and the Taxman. My home (expenses not normally deductible in Canada) and our auto became business expenses - not income. Suddenly, that tithing cheque was much smaller because it was legitimately on my "increase" - not just the gross.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2016 08:56AM by idleswell.

just think of all the blessings !

Funny, in the "Old Days" members were told not to pay tithing if it was going to be a burden.

Now, in these latter latter-days members are told "It's God's money. Pay tithing before anything else."

When I got married and my wife told me that we were going to be full tithe payers, I simply accepted that as fact. Then I started thinking along the lines of this thread. I tried to reason with her about what exactly to pay. It took gas for the car to drive to church, fast offerings, scouting drive, etc. We should deduct those expenses off of our income and then pay tithing on what was left.

Nope, that wouldn't work according to her. Tithing wasn't like a tax return. It didn't have deductions. It was 10%, end of discussion.

I did little side jobs for extra income, built dog houses to sell, tilled gardens, home repairs, etc. The money I earned wasn't all profit, some went for materials and supplies. Could I at least subtract off those expenses and then pay tithing?

Nope, we were going to pay 10% on the amount of the checks I received. I put my foot down and stood my ground with my wife. I wouldn't tell her what I received so she guessed and then doubled it.That was worse.

Then as a topper, if 10% was good, then 20% would be even better. The only word I could think of was "Jesus" but not in a good way.

and I thought "double-tithe paying" was an evangelical concept, found in the Bible belt. Silly me!

It's practically criminal the way some Mormon parents create unnecessary hardships for their families by giving so much money to the church. It's typically an entire car payment each month.

You are correct--that is the way financiers will look at it. It is giving up a lot. No think of another business principle: What is the opportunity cost? What are you giving up by not making that money? By investing all your time? You could have used that money to go to medical school, law school, to invest in a bona fide business. How much better could all Mormon families be if they didn't pay tithing. This cult is responsible for the suppression and pain and suffering of many people.

Then add on, "You need to have as many kids as possible."

William Law Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...
> Then add on, "You need to have as many kids as
> possible."

Also add on: "you need to have a one year supply of food in your garage.

This also brings up the idea of income inequality which is very destructive to individuals and the economy as a whole. If kids of tithers can't go to college because mom and dad pay tithes instead of tuition it becomes harder for them to move up? If they think God will bless them they may be waiting a long time. The upper echelons get richer and richer while average Joe tither get pushed farther down the income inequality ladder.

Tithing in the Mormon sense is self-serving for few that can cash in.

My 2 cents

Your Gifts to LDS, Inc. are VOLUNTARY, from the goodness of the Giver, not to be regretted or understood as to application/uses thereof.

Tithing is a Fine (financial punishment) levied against True Believing Mormons for failure to wake up, open their eyes, and comprehend that they have volunteered to be exploited and abused by clever dudes who wear expensive suits, live in way nicer homes, and invest tithing money to make themselves even richer as time marches on.

The Mormon Church is the ecclesiastical version of Wall Street Bankers and the Federal Reserve. Clever people running an ingenious scam to make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

It's the American Way, here in the Land of the Fee and the Home of the Slave.

Being Mormon AND American is adding insult to injury.

You forgot senior citizens who are paying tithing, fast offerings etc from their retirement money! Then if they are still working for a different employer after retirement, they tithing etc on top of that!

What an extortion racket the morg is! That's why posters here with senior parents see this "double tithing" going on in our families!

The main reason most Mormons pay tithing is to qualify for a temple recommend. And that's a fact. Take away the need to qualify for a temple recommend and the amount the LDS Church brings in for tithing would drop precipitously since LDS are by and large giving for the wrong reason. The tithing recommend is the evil genius of modern Mormonism which allows the LDS Church to control its members and bring in cash for the corporation. People are definitely trying to buy happiness through this scheme.

Mormon's have to live on less than half of their income.

Appx 40% in taxes: federal, state, sales, property

Investing including 401 10% minuminum hopefully. Realistically, I bet it's just enough to get the employer match.

Tithing, another 10%

Emergency/planned large expense cushion 5%

That leaves 35% for actually paying the daily bills.

Notice that that there's no education savings in there for the kids.

Even nonmormons better plan on living on less than half of their income if they want financial stability.

When we moved from Canada to NY some ward members asked, "What are Canadian taxes were really like?" I told them it was like paying double tithing."

A professor visiting from Sweden was in our ward for a year. He said, "Over there only Doctors or CEOs can hope to pay tithing."