Long Post

So, my primary purpose in coming here was to find out more about the LDS church. I have recently moved from the South (Georgia) into the West into an area which is predominantly Mormon. Nothing really prepared me for this as I did not expect quite such a drastic culture change.

The problem with the church (my church, the Baptist...not yours) here, at least in the areas close to me, is that it is composed of old people, and older people. In regards to church community, nice as they are, I am incredibly lonely.

In come the Mormons and their missionaries. I KNOW I am getting a one sided, biased, point of view from them. I'm not totally ignorant, and since we have the internet, I looked up things and was led here.

I've been reading these forums and what they have for a little bit now. I know about the CES letter, I know about the finances and other things. I understand that they may push me to go to the temple, but overall, after baptism, tithing is optional, and if you don't pay the tithing, you don't even get the chance to go anyways. I've actually read what you guys have posted, and investigated the various things that people are holding against the church.

There seems to be a BIG support group from the Mormons here. They also seem to have this big push to get non-members baptized...and believe it or not, in some ways it is tempting.

So, looking at the people here, as some of you may have the best reasons against (or for, someone already tried to equate me with being a Mormon in another thread...which got me thinking maybe there is more similarities than I thought originally) joining the Mormons for people in my position which are from another culture, and are feeling a little lost in the new one.

Pros -

1. The Mormons seem to have a good community. They aren't as conservative as the one I came from, but they seem to have good morals overall. I want my kids to be in a community where good morals are practiced, and want the influence of a good morality in their friends.

2. The missionaries asked me to read some parts of the Book of Mormon. I do admit, I actually DID feel something when reading the book. In fact, if I had to compare, the closest I felt to that same feeling was when I read the New Testament.

IS this actually the spirit, and if it is, how can we know or not know.

(and no, before someone says it, I know the difference between indigestion and what I felt).

3. There seems to be a stonger community than with the other churches. The closest I've found with other people my age have been with a Pentecostal church down the street. However, they have some ideas that are a little farther out there than anything I've heard the Mormons tell me here thus far (and more scary than anything people have related about the Mormons here...at least on my part). The Pentecostals are good people as well, just like the Mormons, but they don't seem to have as extensive a support group or community as the Mormons.

4. We've gotten weekly visits from various members of their leadership. It seems like they are trying to make us feel welcome. On the otherhand, I've gotten NO visits from the pastor of our church (which is something I actually WOULD expect from him).

5. Despite what I've read on these boards, none of them seem to believe in polygamy currently, and they don't seem to indicate anything crazy like that. It seems they have different groups that I could get involved with (actually have invited me to some of them already to tell the truth).

6. The biggest objections I might have are doctrinal. I am already saved, so in that light, if I just go to their church for community and friendship, it doesn't really do anything to actually hurt me. On the otherhand, I get involved more with the actual people here, and maybe get out of this loneliness shroud that seems to hovor over me since I got here.

7. From what I gather on these boards, there are others who may not agree with everything in the LDS church, but apparently go to the LDS church. It seems that as long as you don't make a big fuss or try to contradict them on doctrinal issues, they don't do anything to ostracize you either.

8. I don't drink alcohol, I definitely don't smoke, and normally am not a breakfast eater so coffee isn't actually that big of a deal. This shouldn't be that much of a problem for me. I do LOVE the smell of coffee though, and love ice coffee, but if it means having more friends that's probably something I can live without (though they don't have a problem if you just make coffee do they, or is that a problem also)?

9. Overall, the biggest issue I have right now is I don't really have a sense of community or anyone to really do anything with. I think getting involved with the Mormons (as that's basically almost everyone around me) may be the best solution to solving this. I think that's the BIG crux of everything.

10. In addition to that, my kids also need friends. Most of the good kids that I've seen around here are Mormon. Unfortunately, many of the not so good kids are actually the non-Mormons...which has me worried. I REALLY want my kids to have good influences and friends are a major part of that.

Neutral observations on doctrine.

There are some similarities between our beliefs that I've noted. They do NOT believe in the trinity (which is sort of like imagine if you had two bodies, but you controlled both of them, and you also had a spirit which also was you...in a sort of way). They are more Unitarian in that they believe that Jehovah and Jesus are the same individual, indivisible, and connected without being separate. They also believe that he had an origin in that he had a Father.

However, they still believe in Jehovah being God the Father in how we believe it in that he created the heavens and the earth, created man (aka, we are not literally his children, we are his creation), and then came down and took upon him our sins. They believe in the resurrection.

They also believe in the Bible, but not as literally as I do. They also have other books. It's debatable whether it goes against the instruction in Revelation...as some would say that the book of Mormon is adding to, while others would say it is simply another book like a supplemental (it does say another testament rather than another bible).

I don't know anything about their Doctrine and covenants.

They don't believe as fully in salvation by grace. They do believe that they are only saved by the Grace of Christ, but they add the little bit of after everything they can do. Of course, we can do nothing of ourselves...which in that light, one would say they still hold grace as the saving principle.

They are the church of Jesus Christ, and with the differences noted above, they DO believe in Christ. They don't believe in the local congregation of Christ as the Baptist do. Instead they have a singular central authority.

They believe in baptism by immersion (important) and that the symbolism is the same as I believe, that it is representative of the Saviors crucifixion and death, his burial, and then the resurrection. They believe that it is important for membership into the church (though they speak collectively rather than individually) and to take the Lords supper, one needs to have been baptized. Downside, they use bread, but they don't use the fruit of the vine, using water instead.

Many of them feel Keeping the Sabbath day is important (in some parts of the south, we still close stores down, and we restrict alcohol sales on the Sabbath).

They seek to make the Will of Christ supreme in their lives, or at least that's what I gather. This is the same thing that Baptist strive to do.

On the otherhand, they don't believe in the Rapture.

Finally, they strongly believe in family. In some ways, they feel it stronger than Baptists in that they feel the family is an eternal unit that exists even beyond this life. Baptists also hold the family as the cornerstone of human society. All the Mormons I've met in person believe the same as I do in that a marriage is a Man and a Woman. They tell me polygamy is a thing of the past, and not the present.

Cons.

Most of my problems seem to be with some of their doctrine, but as I've seen here, others on these boards seem to have problems and still attend LDS services...interestingly enough so I gather that's actually not as much of a problem as I would have thought?

1 - As seen above, the similarities have some problems as well. They don't believe in the Trinity (some would consider that unchristian). They don't believe in the Rapture. They feel works are far more important than what Baptists feel. They don't just use the Bible as the ONLY and True word of God.

1. Biggest problem is that they don't believe in the trinity. I would actually still consider them Christian (as opposed to MANY I know from my old home, and even some here) in their actual beliefs. However, it is still problematic in that they don't understand the nature of deity the same as the Baptist.

2. They do not accept the Bible as the sole Revelation and word of the Lord. Some would even argue that add too it when they include the Book of Mormon or their other scriptures.

3. I want my kids around moral children, but do I really want to have my kids exposed this much to something that could be considered heretical belief. I know of myself that I am saved, but am I risking their salvation if I join or go to an LDS church? I think I can educate them on this rather strongly at home, but I'm not sure if that's going ensure they know what is good for salvation or not.

4. On that note, am I going to have to tell my kids to be quiet in LDS services. When we went twice before, I told them to keep their mouths shut because some of the things they would say differ from what the people there might say. It made me a little nervous.

5. In that same light, even though I want my kids to have friends and good influences, I am nervous about what else they might learn or gain from the Mormon kids. I currently have them enrolled in public school, but I know from some of the Pentecostal families I've talked to, that they prefer homeschooling.

6. I don't like to cook and I don't like to sew.

7. Some of the music they listen to is a little to raucous and loud for me and my family. They tend to be a LOT more liberal in the music they listen to and the movies they watch than the Southern Baptist background I come from.

8. I've heard horror stories on these boards about Men being super overwhelming in trying to utilize some absurd authority because they hold the priesthood (which is a little odd in an of itself from the descriptions of how the Priesthood works in the LDS vs. that of other religions). I haven't seen it, but nevertheless, that sort of scares me.

9. They have Sunday School and a Woman's church organization, but they don't seem to have a dedicated Bible Study (what others might call Sunday School) on Sunday, or during the week. They seem more secular than Biblical and religious in some ways, even if they seem very moral as well.

So, I don't need another rehash of LDS history (I've read what you folks have posted over the past few weeks). I don't need a rehash of many of the other topics.

As I said, the strangest thing is when I've been asked about reading their Book of Mormon, I really did feel something when reading. It confuses me. I don't know if it's because a lot of what I read was simply a rehash of what's in the New Testament, or what is going on there. It may be that something really is there, I'm still trying to figure that out.

What I'm wondering, seeing the things I'm thinking about, my difficulties in the new area, and what I've listed as pros and cons...what are the reasons I shouldn't join the LDS church or get involved with it deeply? If you want to, you can also say WHY I should get involved, but I'm already getting that side of the coin from people where I live.

I'm trying to debate whether I should or shouldn't. This seems as best a place as any to note my circumstances and see what reasons there may be that I might decide not to get more involved with the LDS church.

Here is my advice after over a half century of dealings with the LDS church.

You state you have children. My advice. Get your children, especially your daughters as far away from the church as you possibly can.

The church has a plan for all females. It is simple. Women are to be at home. No need for advanced education, no need for a career, and the man (priesthood holder) is in charge.

For your sons...they will want them to leave you for two years with little or no contact with you. And...you will pay hundreds of dollars a month for the two years.

I have seen brothers that were within two years of each other serve missions and not see each other for four years.

Once the girls reach 19 and the boys come home pressure will be applied for them to marry and have kids.

If you are single you will be pressured into marriage. Women cannot head a household after all. They do not have the priesthood.

If you are looking for good friends and a social structure please by all that is holy look elsewhere.

Try the Lions or Eagles or some other group first. Maybe a VFW if you are a veteran.

Your family is too precious. Your kids have too bright a future. Don't shackle them.

Good luck to you.

I haven't had time to completely read through your post, but was able to take away you're feeling divided about the church where you now live and are considering its pros and cons.

On a downside, note that RfM is more atheists and agnostics as ex-Mormons (and some never Mos,) with a smaller sprinkling of believers - whether Mormonism or other religious belief.

Keep that in mind as you get feedback, to compare with what you already believe regardless of whether you jump into to the pseudo religious cult that is Mormonism.

You will find some good people there, and morals like family values are high. They will also seek to love bomb you in. Many converts have shared how much they were "love bombed" into the church only to be ignored and felt like they were shunned after joining. It was a big letdown for many converts.

As for your coffee habit, consider it gone if you join. You can still drink it, but it violates LDS word of wisdom, which would prevail.

Tithing is not voluntary in the Mormon church. It is expected.

My late maternal grandmother was a never Mormon who lived her adult life in Utah. She managed to live a good life without church interference. Her children she raised Protestant, and later in life she went to Science of the Mind for church (she was born and raised Jewish until orphaned at an early age.)

Your children may get sucked into Mormonism with or without your influence. You play a bigger role in their religious training and indoctrination thus far. I'd recommend your not letting the church get its grip on them, because it will be harder to get them out than yourself if you have a change of heart after you join. They can be relentless, and sever ties between you and your children. I know from my own experience that church leaders came between me and my daughter years after we left the cult.

They think they own you after you join. They don't.

Women are treated as second class citizens. It's a patriarchal church where the men rule. You are subject to their whims.

As a Baptist, probably not your cup o' tea.

Don't give up on finding a faith fellowship that more closely matches your convictions. You'll be glad you did in the long run.

AmyJo said: "On a downside, note that RfM is more atheists and agnostics as ex-Mormons (and some never Mos,) with a smaller sprinkling of believers - whether Mormonism or other religious belief."

I don't consider this a "downside" but rather an advantage. It never hurts to consider another side, in my experience, and amazingly (!) A/A's know a thing or two, from their own experience and education, that can be instructive and enlightening.

Whatever else, it often assists someone making a big decision to hear about the experiences and views of others, however much their views may differ.

Yeah, but what if you know 'your way' is the Right Way?

I give old fart tennis players quite a wide berth! What could I possibly learn from such cretins?

"There seems to be a BIG support group from the Mormons here."

That's just it--there SEEMS to be a big support group from the Mormons. If you were to join, you would find how quickly that "support" dwindles to nothing. After the initial excitement of a person joining the LDS church, all that follows and remains is harsh judgement and apathy.


"...they don't seem to have a dedicated Bible Study..."

Bible study groups are forbidden in the Mormon church, and members are highly discouraged from attending even non-denominational Bible studies. Mormons are both fearful and disdainful of the Bible, since most of the New Testament teachings contradict Mormon teachings.


...a lot of what I read was simply a rehash of what's in the New Testament,..."

Fully 25% of the Book of Mormon is copied and pasted from the 1769 edition of the King James Bible, mistakes and all. All the rest is lifted from a few other books that other people wrote. The Book of Mormon is entirely plagiarized, and rather poorly, at that. Does the character Teancum seem familiar? That's because Teancum is Tecumseh, and if you loved your American history, you have probably already read the stories in the original context. Don't waste your time with the Book of Mormon. You'll never get that time back.

Joining the church will, given enough time, suck the life out of you. It is not the place to be of a Sunday morning. Being outdoors in the Southwest is where you need to be of a Sunday morning.

The mormon church prohibits study groups outside of their designated meetings. The reason being is they don't want anyone thinking or figuring out anything outside of what THEY tell you to think.

If you start a study group on your own, you'll be slapped down by the bishop so fast it will make your head spin.

I can see where you are coming from. It sounds easy to say that you will just go for the community, won't pay tithing and won't have to go to the temple, wear the undies, etc.

You seem to understand that the LDS church is not "true" in the sense that they mean it. I.e., Joseph Smith was a con artist, the Book of Mormon is man-made fiction, and none of the leaders today have any greater connection to God than anyone else in any other church does.

But what you are missing is that it's not that easy to be in community with them if you are not at least claiming to be a true believer and working toward going to the temple. There will be a lot of pressure. If you tell them you don't believe it all, wave bye bye to the community part of it. Most churches have many people who are social members and it is pretty much not questioned. Not the case with the LDS. And the whole point of the church is to earn a lot of money for a very few people at the top. Always remember that to understand anything they do, you just have to follow the money.

However, all that said, it sounds like you have done your research and are considering trying it, going in with the blinders off. You will have to start by lying. In order to be baptized, you and all your children older than 8 will have to have an interview with the bishop. You will have to profess your belief in answer to his questions. You will have to profess your allegiance to the prophet. If you don't, no baptism, no membership, no community. If you are willing to lie in order to try it, more power to you. And really I mean that. I understand how important community is. I traded places with you and moved from Utah to the Southeast. I don't know where I would be without my church community.

"However, they still believe in Jehovah being God the Father in how we believe it in that he created the heavens and the earth, created man (aka, we are not literally his children, we are his creation), and then came down and took upon him our sins. They believe in the resurrection."

Well, no. In Mormonville, Jehovah is Jesus. Jesus and GTF (aka Elohim) are separate individuals, with anthropomorphic, anatomically-correct bodies. And humans *are* considered to be GTF's children. Further, Jesus and Lucifer/Satan are spirit brothers; that doctrine, as I understand, is anathema to evangelical Xtians.

If you bring up personal doctrinal differences in meetings or classes, you'll find that the church members won't be nearly so welcoming or friendly.

Your kids will be expected to have private interviews about their sexual purity with the ward bishop. Some bishops take this part of their job way too seriously and ask very detailed, age-inappropriate questions. It can get creepy and perverted.

The Mormon church is one large Potemkin village. You'll see it eventually; just hope it isn't too late by then.

Think of a North Korean propaganda poster and erase "North Korea" and substitute "Mormon."

You are a node waiting to be inserted into the Matrix. Instead of body heat they want ten per cent of your income and your future children's income.

It's totally fake. Walk away. Walk away now.

Welcome to the board!

The easiest way for an outsider to understand the LDS church is to equate it with another high-control denomination, the Jehovah's Witnesses. If the JWs are your type of group, then so are the Mormons. If the JWs leave you with an icky feeling, then so would the Mormon church. They are very, very similar in terms of the level of time, indoctrination, and control that they want of their members.

There is more than adequate evidence that the Book of Mormon is an invented text from the 1800s. The archaeology doesn't add up. For instance there were no steel weapons, horses, certain grains, etc. The DNA evidence contradicts the story of the BoM. Even the Mormon church realized this. The forward to the BoM used to state that the text is about the *principal* ancestors of the native Americans. Now it just says that the characters in the BoM are "among" the ancestors of the native Americans. There would have been no need to make this change other than overwhelming scientific evidence against the BoM. The Smithsonian Institution has also made a definitive statement that there is no scientific basis to support the BoM.

In addition, the Mormons market themselves as a "family friendly" denomination. In reality, they are anything but. Church and financial demands will take up a lot of your family's time and resources.

Consider the issue of baptism. Do you think there was anything wrong with the baptism that you got from the Southern Baptists? The Mormons would have you believe that it was invalid because your church minister did not have adequate "priesthood authority." They would want to baptize you again. Do you feel that you need to be baptized again? Or is the whole notion insulting?

I would strongly recommend seeking out your own denomination or that of another mainstream Christian church. One of the more conservative Presbyterian or Lutheran groups might be a good fit for you. The traditional Anglican church is another possibility.

Keep reading and learning. We are here for you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2016 12:33PM by summer.

What summer said about comparing JWs and Mormons. I should know. I was a seeker as a young teen and met a lovely JW family, the only people to take me seriously in my search and "teach" me about the Bible and God. Naturally, I ended up getting baptized and was a JW for 7 years - until I started questioning and then they went from friends to not-so-friendly in a NY minute. They had tried to separate me from my family which was the last straw for me in my already doubting mind (their reality didn't match up to the "paradise" they preached. I tend to be very literal, a trait that has never entirely settled down. I accept, obviously, that life is no paradise for most of us, but when they preach that it is, as long as you stick with them, and then it isn't, I have a hard time with that; if you preach it, make it so).

However, due to my literal mind that paired with a strong belief in the overriding need to know and understand - and accept - doctrine, and due to an EV friend who heavily emphasized doctrine (to persuade me out of the JWs and into his fundamentalist Brethren church, which worked), I have always focused on doctrine rather than any other feature of a church. I have to believe in it to preach it, iow. I don't go just for the good coffee after the service on a Sunday or for the study groups or classes I enjoy.

As summer says, there is a close fit between being JW and Mormon (although many exmos opine that the WatchTower (JW) is way worse; imho, not).

I have learned, from reading people here for years, that looking at other faiths and groups and beliefs, and seeing their shortcomings more easily than those of your own, can be wildly and usefully informative.

Check out the origins of the WatchTower Society, Betty. A man named Russell (like a man named Joseph Smith). Russell was had up in court on charges of cheating or fraud (I forget the details now). The Society eventually favoured (and wrote) their own "translation" of the Bible (very subtlely altering a few key verses to change the interpretation of doctrine; meanwhile JWs think they are using the KJV). They are run by a central committee, like the LDS. Authoritarian. Restrictive. Men only in leadership roles (for instance, when holding a Bible study with a man who was not yet a JW, I still had to cover my head, in acknowledgement that I was adopting a teaching role that would ordinarily be taken by a male and worse, that the man I was teaching would be "above" me when he was baptized. Also, when women take part in the weekly JW "school" meeting - learning how to preach - the women are not allowed to stand at the pulpit - they don't call it that, too churchy - but must be speaking to each other on stage, not directly to the audience, etc).

I once saw the leaders strong arm a man and a woman of mature age at the beginning of a meeting because they had been seen at a movie together. Gasp. His wife had died and he was painfully lonely. Her husband had left her and moved to a different Canadian province, living with another woman, because he couldn't stand that she had become a JW. He was never coming back. But to the leaders, she was still married and hence it was a massive sin for this couple to "date", although they were certainly old enough and mature enough to make their own choices. No choices with the JWs, the leaders make your decisions for you.

No advanced education for JWs. Armageddon is coming, your career choices will be passe then (for instance, I wanted to be a nurse - nope - "we won't need nurses after Armageddon"). Many JW men are real estate agents - good money; make your own schedule.

Push to marry young (as someone mentioned above re LDS).

Etc.

The details aren't even essential, unless you're seriously studying every last one to come up with a decision, if that's your style. It's just enough to check out a different but similar group, where it's often easier to be objective and see the flaws. If you are feeling warm towards Mormonism it is easy to overlook things you don't like (or won't when you come to face them) and emphasize more the things you do. As others have said, things change once you are baptized. The friendship part is not deep and lasting. The expectation factor rises sharply. No love. No fun. Ask not what the church can do for you (and your kids), ask what YOU can do (and do and do and do and do) for the church. They seek to control your every movement, from how to practice their beliefs to what you do at home and how you spend your weekend.

The worst aspect for me as an EV-leaning Christian (even though I chose to get baptized LDS) was NO EASTER. You can say that was just the ward I attended. I don't think so. On my third Easter in the church, STILL no mention of Jesus, it was three short, uninspiring talks by 18-19 yr olds waiting to go on their mission. I was obviously upset, feeling that I had "missed Easter" (again, and compared to how mainstream Christian churches observe the entire time period of Good Friday to Easter Monday). An LDS sister missionary found me in the hallway, not happy, and asked me "Why does Easter mean so much to you?" {{choke}} If you have to ask, you don't get it! (as a Christian)

Reading your other post, Betty, I am so surprised to read this one. More later, if you want, and I can get back to it (should be working!) I would say, bottom line, if you want to try it for yourself, OK, but maybe don't get baptized (although they will continue to exert unholy pressure on you to get dunked - ask yourself why - they want you before you change your mind). However, seriously consider that you will be exposing your kids to their doctrines and practices and although you may think you can control that, you cannot. In future, you may decide to leave but by then your kids may be hopelessly trapped.

Oh, another bottom line: I also felt "something" that they kept telling me was "the Spirit". I can't explain what it actually was. It misdirected me in any case. And if you have questions and the missionaries do nothing but plug in a video - run! I didn't realize it at the time but this is the response they are taught to give - no talk, no teaching, just church-produced feel-good videos to "help you feel the Spirit" and they believe/teach that once you feel that feeling your questions/doubts will dissipate and you will go along like a little lamb to the font, the endless meetings, the exhausting expectations, the tithing, the temple, the supposed do-good stuff, the visit-teaching, the toilet cleaning (like you don't get enough of that at home), the gardening (when you don't have time to do your own), etc etc etc in an endless loop. Mormon Paradise - no thanks!

There's more. But that's two bottom lines so far so I'll stop now. Please keep reading. Don't just look at the opinions here and make a choice. Be on guard that when you feel warm towards something you are more inclined to choose with your heart instead of your mind.

As a mainstream Christian (OK, third bottom line) and having the beliefs about "salvation" that you do, you will surely miss these two core Christian doctrines in the Mormon Church. They are not there. You may not realize how much they form part of your Christian identity until they are completely absent from studies, meetings, books, talks that you and your children will be attending/reading.

Don't base a decision this important on feelings!

I don't mean to say that Mormons aren't Christians - I knew at least that some that are, at least in how they explain Jesus and salvation and their understanding of it and how it affects their beliefs and lives. This decision of yours is not based on that. It's about the corporation of the Mormon Church itself, not its mass of people, and about the top leaders and how they conduct themselves and how that affects the LDS members.

I have often read here the negative opinion of JWs and how much worse the WatchTower Society is than the Mormon Church. Not true, in my experience. The main reason why, for me, is that the JWs want you to know what they believe and what they expect of a member before you join. They don't even want you if you don't know all the doctrine and live every principle, before baptism. In my experience, and looking back over my time in the Mormon Church, and reading all the stories here of born-in-church exmos, it's THE LIES that kill. Missionaries are actually taught to LIE to investigators, and that's just the start. We know JS and BY lied as did, and do, many other Mormon leaders. They will say anything to get you into the font and to keep you in the fold.

And then there's the Big Change. Once you are baptized, no more friendly faces, just demands, in my experience. I did not have a good baptism experience and it didn't really get much better from then on. Every single Mormon I tried to talk to me about it, even including the bishop who was actually quite a nice man, said the same phrase over and over and over: "You got baptized" (equivalent to "you signed the lease, now you've got to stay in this flea-bitten basement suite for the duration"). YOU. You're the responsible party, no matter how much they lie or seek to deceive or whatever they want to call it. They actually think lying is OK. Shocking to me still. Look up The Noble Lie. Look up Pious Fraud. Mormon leaders love it. Teach it. Live it.

Yes, I sound bitter. But it's not just for me. It's for all those who have been hurt by the Big Lie. And all those who have been seduced by it.

By all means, go to meetings if you want. Just don't rush into baptism. But first, think of your children. The most important imprinting time in their lives is when they are young. One sentence, one thought, one principle, one doctrine, one teacher, one friendly kid, can say something to them or have them participate in something (like camp) that will affect their lives forever, for good or ill. You be the imprinter. But please God, you will also allow your kids the space to hear all sides to a question, to discover the world, to learn widely, to seek and to grow.

Good luck!

As far as feeling something when you read the Book of Mormon, it might be helpful to understand that this is a very common and perfectly normal human response to a huge range of different things. Practitioners of Islam feel the same thing when they read the Koran. Hindus fell the same thing when they read their holy scriptures. Millions of people feel the same thing when they read good poetry. Or when they watch a movie --- and it doesn't make a shred of difference what the movie is about.

We are all wired to feel those feelings. The problem is that any two people can feel those same feelings from wildly different experiences. If you let yourself believe that feeling something special when you read one set of scriptures means that these scriptures are true, keep in mind that you're totally normal. People all over the world feel that, but about scriptures that contradict each other in huge ways. Feelings have nothing to do with truth. It's a simple, blunt fact.

Sadly, people tend to believe so strongly in their feelings, that they insist that the object of their feelings, alone, must be correct and every different stimulus must be wrong (evil, inspired by Satan). Mormons are absolute champions in insisting on that latter situation.

Also, on tithing --- people may tell you that it's optional. It is not. Just read what the higher authorities say. Tithing is essential. If you are poor, you are told to pay your tithing instead of buying food or clothing for your children. Pay your tithing instead of paying your bills. And so on and on.

You can exist as a Mormon without doing such things as paying tithing. But you will be looked down on by everyone who knows. And everyone will know, sooner or later. Such things are fodder for gossip among Mormons. Even deeply private things are routinely talked about among the elders in meetings. Then shared with their wives outside of the meetings. And then, spread to the whole congregation.

I know from personal experience (and you can find a huge number of threads here that support this) that Mormons are greatly interested in you, as long as they think they might be able to get you to join. If you don't join, they have no interest in you, until the next missionary push comes along. And if you do join, many will also drop you, and move on to the next possible convert.

Converts are low in the social pecking order. Those born in the church are much higher, and tend to socialize with each other. Those with important relatives and ancestors are even higher, and form the upper crust of Mormon society. They will not bother with you in the long run.

And as a woman, you will be seen as a threat to other Mormon women, even married ones. They will see you as being a temptation for their husbands or competition for a husband, among the not-yet-married. You will also always be a lower class citizen, in every way, due to your gender. And your children will be heavily indoctrinated into that belief. What a horrible way to train children, both male and female!

You don't like to cook or sew? Well that right there disqualifies you! Ok, I am partially kidding about that, but homemaking skills in the mormon religion are highly valued from their women.

Seriously, I get that you want your kids to have good friends. There are lots of good kids out there who are not mormons.

If you join the mormon church, you will soon find out that the so called "community" will use you and abuse your willingness to help. They will expect your free janitorial services to clean their toilets, feeding the missionaries (there is that cooking thing again), teaching classes (with doctrine you may not agree with) volunteering to can beans at the welfare cannery, and on and on. Oh, and the tithing thing? Believe me, the pressure will be put on strong to pay it...on your GROSS earnings, not your net. You will be asked to contribute to the missionary fund, fast offerings, budget, boy scouts, church magazines...gadfry, it never ends!

And polygamy? The doctrine was never rescinded. Men can marry additional women in the temple if the wife dies and he gets ALL of them in the eternities. It has just been discontinued as a practice in THIS life.

Mormons are NOT like any other "faith community" you are thinking of. You are now their golden contact and the love bombing must be intense. Run.NOW.

"Seriously, I get that you want your kids to have good friends. There are lots of good kids out there who are not mormons."

Any of the Mormon kids worth being friends with will befriend your kids whether Mormon or not. Unfortunately, in Mormon communities, many kids don't invest much in non-Mormon friends since they have a built-in circle of friends at church. Still, encourage your kids to develop real friendships based on similar interests, etc..., not based on cult membership.

Mormons are super friendly when they're trying to attract members or when they're trying to deepen a newcomer's commitment. Much of this fellow-shipping is insincere and manipulative. Once they've snagged someone, they tend to back off and cool the relationship.

What they teach children isn't good for them. They tell children that only mormons are worthy of going to heaven. Everyone else is unworthy of God's love.

It doesn't work with mormonism to see it as a cafeteria taking what seems good and rejecting the rest. That's because the religion is cultish which means it's all or nothing, black or white, all in or totally out and converts are not considered as favorably as born and bred mormons. You and your children would be considered rather second class if truth be told.

Find another church. There must be more than one Baptist church within driving distance or one that is similar enough to suit your needs. Get your children involved in non-mormon activities like Girl Scouts, dance lessons, Boys club, sports activities and such.

I can't believe nobody brought up the elephant in the room: Assigned friends and love bombing. Yes, they are very nice to you now. You're not a member and they are conditioned want to convert the lost souls. However, once you are converted they will fade to church acquaintances and stop the love bombing.

Everything in Mormonism is conditional and a highly patriarchal leadership sets the conditions. Even love is conditional. The reasons Mormons are fair weather friends don't need to be understood if you have observed the phenomenon over a period of several decades. But it's rather instructive that they are, because their religion made them that way. Do you want to be the same way? I slowly came to the realization that Mormonism is a big game of Simon Says. Unfortunately, Simon leaves a lot to be desired.

The practice of taking an idea into your body and feeling how your body responds to it may be valid. I think it can be useful. But it has no bearing on the virtues of Mormon doctrine. It doesn't make up for the stunted emotional growth that Mormonism causes. Religion is often a means to manufacture consent. Joseph was able to manufacture quite a bit of consent (especially with women) if you look at church history.

You would be joining a church that is misogynistic to the extreme while pretending that they put their women on pedestals. The women must veil their faces in the temple and swear to obey the men. This is an example of the false morality that you would be teaching your children.

Your children will learn to accept bigotry as God's way. Another set of false morals.

Do not do this to your children. You are fully capable of teaching them good morals all on your own. Do not limit your choices to only two things--Baptists or Mormons. There is a big world out there and a lot more on life's buffet than just those two things to choose from.

Mormon idea of "good morals" is proper placement of bodily fluids and fear of coffee.

Honesty, critical thinking, empathy, fairness, not so much.

They do have Sunday School as part of their 3-hour block of meetings. However, they rotate through the Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine & Covenants every four years. There are weeks when you might not hear God or Jesus mentioned at all. They don't worship Joseph Smith, but they do have hymns praising him and they talk an awful lot about him. They believe he's the most important person in history besides Jesus, and they place far more importance on his "revelations" than any scripture. With your beliefs and background, I have a feeling you would find church attendance unbearable. It is NOT just another Christian church.

Nice to meet you, Betty. I lived in GA for a while. I miss the pines and Spanish Moss.

It seems your question was answered in many good ways. If I might hazard to guess what would help you, my general philosophy is that love is the answer to every problem because with love there is no problem. You have to love yourself first and foremost. People have told you that heaven is some place else, but what if heaven is where you make it? What if Earth is heaven? It should be, shouldn't it? You here now, and you are you.

A religion with a lighter touch might be more your thing, if you want that sense of community. But the notion of being saved is a man-made construction. If you need to be saved, it is only from yourself. Will religion save you from yourself? In my experience it does the opposite. Your love will save you from yourself. That's why Jesus said "The kingdom of heaven is within you". That's a very important concept. You enter the kingdom of heaven through the doorway of your heart. It's all inside you.

Notice that the world hasn't managed to destroy itself. That's because it can't. It's protected, it doesn't need to be "saved". The "saving" comes from the inside out. Heaven on Earth will come from the inside out, but it starts with you. It's a beautiful way.

You don't have to come here just for doctrinal questions. There are lots of caring people in RfM. Whatever life concerns you have get lots of support here.

Have you taken this quiz? http://www.beliefnet.com/entertainment/quizzes/beliefomatic.aspx

You can find out how much your beliefs line up with other religions. It might shed some light on how much (or how little) your beliefs line up with the Mormon church.

You won't be unable to do the mental damage the church will do to your children. It isn't worth it. They may be accepted in Utah if you join but they will be social outcasts everywhere else.

If I might add my 2 cents here it would be:

The morg congregation will be your best friend until they dunk you. Then you will simply become another one of them. Yes, they have a lot of social contact, but it is all powered by a goal of going to the temple in some way, which means you will be laying out a lot of cash.

Your children will be interviewed by a man who will ask them very personal questions that strange men should never be asking strange children. If you do decide to join, accompany your children on every interview that they have with their ward leaders. EVERY ONE!

It might seem nice to get a visit every month from someone in the ward who has an assignment to visit you. Be prepared to also be assigned to visit someone else every month and become their assigned friend. And, if you don't visit them, you will be asked why you didn't go.

As for coffee, this is one sin that you can easily hide if you want to. But be prepared for the bishop to ask you if you keep the word of wisdom. Again, this question is geared towards the temple, and the outlay of cash.

At the end of every year the bishop will want to have a personal interview with you and ask about the money you have given to the mighty morg during the year. You will be labeled a non-payer, partial-payer, or full-payer. Anything other than full will bring pressure to be a FULL payer, again, the money!

You will be asked to teach a class, give prayers, speak in sacrament meeting, clean toilets, cook meals, etc. And, be happy about it.

Being a professional investigator might bring you what you are seeking; lots of social contact and fake friends. Once you have crossed over, this will all change and I predict that before long you will be posting here in an entirely different tone.

You are the only one who can decide what to do. Follow your heart, but learn from others who have been there. Is the grass really greener on the other side of that fence?

I enjoyed your post, Betty. It seems like you're really thinking through this whole thing very carefully.

The Mormon church is not a church that exists to meet the needs of its members. The members exist to meet the needs of the church.

My biggest problem with the Mormon church besides its history and much of its doctrine, is that the Mormon church NEVER meets its members where they are. By that I mean that you are always expected to be more, do more and give more than you probably have in mind. You can't just take a small bite of Mormonism. You're expected to eat the whole sandwich.

For example, tithing may seem optional in the LDS church. But if you don't pay it, you will most likely be called repeatedly every December to visit the bishop for tithing settlement. The pressure in the LDS church to conform to its ideals can be intense.

If a bishop notices that you're a half hearted member, you will be discussed in ward council meetings and a plan will be formulated to "encourage" you to be more dedicated to Mormonism. Once you're baptized, there's an expectation that you'll go to the temple and there will be a goal to get you there. Going to the temple requires ten percent of your income.

Keep in mind that you may not necessarily be able to limit the extent to which your children are indoctrinated in the church either. You might join thinking you just want the social aspects, but your children might be influenced heavily by the church. One day you could find yourself excluded from your child's temple marriage if you don't decide to accept the church in its entirety.

It's very difficult in Mormonism to choose what you like and leave the rest. Because my entire family is LDS, I honestly think I may have stayed in the church if I had been allowed to practice Mormonism on my own terms. But that really isn't possible. In the LDS church, you're either in or out. There's not much in between.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2016 02:46PM by want2bx.

If your children decide to go full all out Mormonism and you don't, keep in mind you won't be able to attend their weddings in the Mormon temple, because you won't be considered "good enough," say if you continue drinking coffee, don't pay a full tithe, etc in order to have your own endowments issued so you can attend your child's wedding. Future grandchildren the same.

It really divides and destroys families rather than bringing them together for the joyous events and milestones like marriages.

But that's a defining hallmark of a cult, that would separate families and make non-temple recommend holding parents, or siblings etc not worthy of participating in familial milestone events.

Your kids may sever ties with you over that, if you aren't "perfect" enough to be in the 'inner circle' of temple recommend holding parents.

Welcome to the board. I am an exmormon I have resigned over 2 years ago. My advice to you is many if not most lds friendships are fake and do not fall for their pretend kindness. We were very big into the ward activities "active mormons" but as soon as we resigned people pretended not to know us anymore. Today I was grocery shopping and I said hi to a lady from the ward I knew for at least 6 years and she just turned her head away. Keep reading this board. Most of my family is lds and they are wonderful people too but that does not make the cult true. Joseph Smith was a con man and I do not want my kids to ever believe that he was a prophet of god. Google temple ceremonies. "To give everything to the building up of the kingdom even your own life!!!" I used to wear garments and they were so hot during the summer months!!!

I can't think of any pros in joining a convicted cons fraud.

The biggest "no!!" screaming out to me was "I have to tell my kids to keep their mouths shut."

Really!!!!?????

Trying to belong to a group where you have to watch what you say from the get-go and tell your children to hush about what they really think?

Go ask your baptist pastor what he thinks about the mormons. He'll tell you.

There has to be a non-denominational group around that isn't gathering mothballs.

Keep in mind that if you consider some parts of the doctrine optional (tithing, temple, coffee), you will be ostracized by the very mormons you hoping will be a strong community for you and your family. The way to get full community is to toe the line at all times, even if it means lying about your beliefs.

Before agreeing to join this church, spend a year getting to know it. Experience Advent and Christmas, Lent and Easter. See if those live up to your expectations as a Baptist.

Do you find it odd that there are no crosses, candles, alter, or other'Christian' items in the chapel? They aren't in the temple either.

Do you know that a LDS bishop has no training? It's not a vocation, it's a 'calling', and only temporary, usually 5 years I believe. They are not licensed or registered, they haven't taken any theology classes or courses. He is given a handbook. And he is definitely not trained in psychology or similar field to help people with problems. If he attended college, it was job related only.

Think long and hard about this, because it is not a religion you can just walk away from if you decide you don't like it. It should take more than just 'a good feeling' to make you want to join this church.

Good luck.

...untrained bishops...

don't forget about the untrained bishops asking your kids -boys and girls - in a closed-door session to which you will be denied entry, if they masturbate. If you don't want your kids exposed to sex talk by strangers, too bad. And you should also teach them to lie to the bishops, as well as the "lying" lessons you already planned, because if they don't lie? The bishop is not bound by any "privacy" concerns.

If you later decide to leave the cult, but your kids don't, don't expect to attend their temple weddings - you will be barred. You're not going to tithe, so no weddings for you, anyway.

You have no idea about how many lies of omission you've already been fed.

Some of these are repeats from above, but here are some of the things I think you won't like:

Joseph Smith is nearly as important as Jesus, and IMHO, he is worshipped in the LDS church. You will be shocked by how may Sundays go by that you barely hear Jesus mentioned, but you'll hear all about Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and the present-day authorities.

Mormons believe they are the ONLY true church on the face of the earth and that non-Mormons may be good people, but they don't have the "fullness of the gospel" and won't be with their families in eternity as will temple-married Mormons. If you're attending while not believing, they'll notice, believe me. You may find yourself as an outcast once they realize you're not actually converted.

The Bible is considered flawed, and not as correct as the Book of Mormon, even though a lot of the BoM has been copied verbatim out of the Bible. As others have mentioned, there is no Bible study beyond what the LDS church dictates and has handbooks for. As far as having feeling when you read the BoM, don't you think that could be the power of suggestion from the missionaries? I guess what I'm saying is, if you just happened upon this book, and picked it up to read it, would you still have felt something, or do you felt something because the missionaries told you to look for a feeling or that you're supposed to have a feeling?

You may want friendship and fellowship for your kids, but if you let them join, chances are they will eventually date, fall in love with, and marry Mormons. They will want to get married in the temple and you won't be able to see them get married unless you are willing to take the lessons and go yourself. The temple ceremony can be found online. I suggest you watch it.

Sons will want to go on missions, which not only will take them away from you for two years, but could possibly send them to a country that has dangerous situations for them to deal with like poor medical care, parasites, bad food, etc. There are stories like that on this board all the time. Some of our regulars have been through it and still suffer ill-effects decades later.

You do need a social life and hopefully you can find one outside of the LDS church. Can you hold a backyard barbecue to get to know your neighbors? What about things like PTA or a book club? Volunteer work will put you in contact with others who are generous and interested in helping others.

I can tell your faith is important to you, so would you consider another Protestant church like Methodist or non-denominational Christian? I'm afraid after a while you will feel a great longing for what you have left behind. Please shop around some more before you make your final decision.

Nice post and you hit on some of the important features not yet commented on.

It's not that we're trying to talk someone out of joining if that's what they want so much as it is to present the other side, that most converts do not have Clue One about until way after they get dunked (like me). For instance, I was devastated to learn, not even until after I had left, about all the racist attitudes and even doctrines that permeate Mormonism. I couldn't believe I had joined such an organization but was also floored that I hadn't known.

Even if some or most or all of some of these doctrines or teachings are no longer emphasized I believe a founder and his beliefs as well as founding principles and ongoing practices and ideas are important.

Does it matter what a long-ago leader said about the nature of God? To a Christian, yes it does. Does it matter that the main body of Mormons were enthusiastic polygamists into the 20th Century? To any fair-minded, regular folks, especially mainstream Christians who are staunch monogamists, yes,it does.

Does it matter that Mormons devalue the Bible? To most Christians, yes, it does, even if they can somehow get past the "no added books" as stated in Revelation. To Mormons, their "added books" are considered scripture. Can a Christian come to accept and share that view?

It's not just that there are so many, and such significant, differences between Mormonism and mainstream Christianity, it's that these are all main features of Mormonism and define who they are and how they practice their faith. These differences are so extreme as to render the two faiths diametrically different. At least, if you are considering joining, find out all the facts first, especially in order to protect children you will or may bring into the Mormon fold with you.

It's not like wandering into the church down the road that offers friendship and coffee after a Sunday service, that you can take or leave or share intermittently. It's a choice that will drastically alter your life, and that of your children, whether you go for a while and ultimately leave or even if you just look in and then scuttle away before making any drastic life-changing decisions.

It's hard to explain how it is, especially for committed Christians who may join out of an abundance of not-enough-info, but many respondents here have mentioned some of the very foremost main factors about Mormonism that should give Christians, and others, pause when it comes to a choice of whether to get in deeper or not.

My advice: why go from the frying pan to the fire?

All religion is nuts when you sit back and think about it. Do your kids a favor and raise them to be good people without the baggage of believing in fairy-tales such as child-bearing virgins or golden-plate-reading, child-marrying polygamists.

You have people to help you move.
You have to help someone move.

This.

But for eternity!

I enjoyed reading your post, BettyG. I am a nevermo and moved to Utah in 1993. I decided at that time to learn as much as I could about Mormonism, if I was going to be living here among them. I have a daughter who was just starting the 2nd grade when we moved here(for my then-husband's job).

What I learned about the LDS church at that time was mind-blowing to me! I wondered how anyone could believe such ridiculousness and very quickly came to the conclusion that it is nothing more than a huge, multi-billion dollar corporation masquerading as a church. You have received some excellent advice here from many ex-Mormons(they are ex for many of the reasons they warned you against joining the Mormon church). Certainly, my daughter made many friends in school, some Mormon kids but some not. She learned morals from me(and her dad). The age-appropriate things I shared with her about the LDS church as I was learning, convinced her that she would not be pressured by any of her Mormon friends to join their church, but she did maintain good friendships with many of them.

You have conveyed that your faith and a 'church family' are important to you and I sincerely hope you will look into other(Protestant) churches in your area and steer clear of the LDS Church for your own sake, as well as that of your childrens'.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2016 06:32PM by cinda.

if you have not previously done so, please read "Thinking of Joining Mormonism?", an excellent article by RPackham, accessible from the main page of this site.

Such great advise from all the posters and probably quite a bit to think about. It was mentioned before, but time will be your best route. There is no rush to meet demands of a mormon community. They aren't going anywhere and taking your time will give you a chance to evaluate the best situation for yourself and children.
Get involved with the community and keep mormonism on the back burner for a bit. Atleast until the shock of this new environment wears off. Best of luck. Hold strong to your own identity no matter what you decide.

"They don't believe in the Trinity (some would consider that unchristian). They don't believe in the Rapture."

Actually they do believe in the rapture, they just don't call it that (neither does the Bible).
They do believe in a trinity of sorts but not in the way others do. They call it the "Godhead" which is composed of the three separate individual gods.

What do they call the Rapture? From what I can tell and everything I've read, they don't believe in it.

In Pre-Millennial Rapture, people are taken up before the Lord comes and do not experience the great destruction and devastation.

In a Millennial Rapture they are taken up and don't have to worry about a lot of the destruction or worries as well.

In a Post-Millennial, which normally isn't as popular, they are taken up after the Millennium.

From what I have seen, Mormons believe they will be here during the Millennium without being taken up prior or during. Instead, during the Millennium they will be "changed in a blink of an eye" to go from living, to dead, to resurrected again and be in the same spot and same place.

After the Millennium they will be here but people will continue to get worse and worse.

For me, the Rapture is a period where the Righteous will be taken up prior to the second coming and thus will be spared the calamities and terrible events that occur. The Bible talks about two in the field and suddenly there will only be one. Just like that, the righteous will be taken up while the wicked remain.

I could be mistaken, but I haven't had anyone say that Mormons believe that way. If you could inform me on how they believe in the Rapture that would be informational.

In addition, my understanding is that Mormons do not believe in the trinity as other Christians (Trinitarians) do. They believe in three separate beings of different substance, while we believe in three beings that are individual but of the same substance.

In otherwords, the three members of the Godhead, while separate, are also the same being. It's not exactly understandable to us, but I can try to explain it. You see The Father and the Son as two individuals, but imagine as if the Father was also the Son. They have two bodies, but they are also the same person controlling them...not an exact description, but something similar to that idea. Extend that same idea to the Holy Spirit. It literally is the spirit of our Lord, but also separate in entity.

Whereas, in Mormonism, I get the distinct idea that that Son and his father as well as the Holy spirit re completely separate in all ways. They are not the same personage, being, or substance. They may share a similar thought process like a husband and wife do at times if they are close, but just like that husband and wife, they are not the same being/substance.

However, for Christians, the Lord of the Old Testamant that Mormons refer to is Jehovah. We both believe that he created the world and all there is. He created man and Adam and Eve. They are not the literal children of Jehovah, but his creations.

Jehovah came down and took on flesh and was Jesus Christ. We believe that Jehovah and Jesus are two separate individuals but also the same being, in that they are separate, but the same substance. Mormons believe in a more Unitarian idea similar to Jehovah's Witnesses that Jehovah is the same in spirit and body as Jesus Christ.

We differ as well in that, while we refer to Jehovah as the Father and Jesus Christ as the son, that Mormons feel that Jehovah and Jesus are ONE entity in the Godhead, not two. They extend it further in the belief that Jesus also has a literal Father, and that the Holy Ghost is also an entirely different individual and being.

Mormons instead believe that these are three completely separate beings of separate substance that get together much like a Mormon Presidency or Bishopric that come to decisions.

This differs from where a Christian Trinitarian would view it more like the Lord being the Lord. He is of like mind because it is all HIS mind, rather than separate minds. There are three individuals, but they are all of the same being as well.

So, from what I understand, the differences between what a Christian believes in the trinity, and what a Mormon believes is quite different in regards to the aspects of deity.

Am I wrong on this? If so, what do the Mormons actually believe and where is it presented as such?

On another note, we had some members and missionaries over. They seemed overly eager to get me baptized and tried to challenge me to be baptized in two weeks.

I told them that was FAR too soon (that's awfully quick to be baptized) and couldn't possibly make a decision that hefty in such a short time.

Talk of the Holy Ghost came up. They asked me about when I had been saved and asked how I knew it. I told them I felt it in my heart. You can literally know you are saved.

They explained that I knew it because I felt it. There was not physical evidence or scientific proof of it, but I knew it because of how I felt at the time.

I could see their point of view, and so I agreed on that.

They then asked what I felt when I read the Book of Mormon, and I told them I was feeling something. I even admitted it could be the Holy Spirit as it's basically the same feeling I feel when I read the New Testament.

They then said, that this was the Holy Ghost telling me that the Book of Mormon was true.

If I knew from how I felt about being saved before, then why would I not let how I felt now also guide me?

They then asked to baptize me, and I told them, I couldn't possibly be baptized at this time yet. I have too many questions.

But, it bothers me to a degree. They are right, this feeling I get when I read the Book of Mormon is there.

But that said, as I explained above, and with the things stated in my other post on this thread, there are differences in what I believe and what they are teaching. No matter what I feel, I also think with my head, and cannot wrap around the differences in doctrine between what I believe, and what the Mormons believe.

I wasn't saved because I believed in the Mormon ideas, I was saved in knowledge of what I believe, and that I gave my sins over to the Lord and accepted his grace. It's the trinity vs. the extended Unitarian idea that the Mormons present...

Which has me thinking about this again this evening after they left, sort of a conundrum I suppose. I can answer everything about their doctrine (or so I think, from this board and other places I've done my research, I think I have a pretty good grasp on Mormonism at this point), but I'm having difficulties with the entire "how do I feel" type questions in regards to the Book of Mormon and other questions of that type.

I'm wondering if I'm just so lonely in this new area that my feelings will try to tell me anything in the hopes of friends, or what I'm feeling in actuality.

Do you think that kind of manipulative behavior is acceptable? If so, you will enjoy being a member of that church. Manipulation is the name of the game. As a member you will live and breathe it. Sounds like a healthy way to live, huh? And what you described here is only a taste. They will only lay it on thicker and thicker once you join. It's hard to believe anyone would want that for herself and her loved ones.

Well, as long as you're entertaining the metaphysical you could consider the theory of morphic resonance (you can look that up). You could be feeling a resonance with millions of devout Mormons that lived in the last 180 years. The atheists would disagree, but for the sake of exploring that dimension of consciousness, let's look at it.

Basically what it comes down to is that you have a dimension of consciousness that connects to other beings in a like-attracts-like manner. The stories you grew up are loved by many millions of people, so you feel a resonance with those people. It doesn't mean the story is true, it means it is a beautiful story. And that's fine. Maybe better than fine. The stories that bind us help give life meaning. If you are expecting them to more than stories, you may be setting yourself up for later disappointment depending on how much facts and logic matter to you.

Life is too short to not follow your heart, so if you ignore all of the advice here then good for you for independent thinking. Mormonism is a heart-based religion. Don't try to reason with the doctrine because it's not that kind of thing. The brethren speak and it's decided. Until they speak differently and then it's decided again.

So look, if it feels right to you, get baptized. Just don't let them suck you in and trap you with guilt and manipulation. When your heart says it's time to leave, you can leave.

>>They then asked what I felt when I read the Book of Mormon, and I told them I was feeling something. I even admitted it could be the Holy Spirit as it's basically the same feeling I feel when I read the New Testament.

Betty, if you read my post above then you would (hopefully) see that the Book of Mormon is demonstrably false. There are too many really glaring archeological errors in it. In addition, it has the same turns of phrase and translation errors as the King James version of the Bible. Why? -- because the author used the KJV as his source material. The Book of Mormon is not a text from ancient times.

http://packham.n4m.org/historicity.htm

Richard Packham's home page has lots of good articles about Mormonism. Scroll down for the Mormon articles:

http://packham.n4m.org/index.htm

So having a good feeling about reading the BoM is equivalent to having a good feeling about reading the Lord of the Rings or a Nicholas Sparks novel (which is possible, but is not indicative of the truth.)

Short synopsis on the Mormon version of the rapture.

The Mormon rapture essentially corresponds to an evangelical post-Tribulation, pre-Millennial rapture, but without a 7-year Great Trib. At the 2nd coming, the Mormons float up to meet Jesus and then promptly descend with him. In other words, they go up and come right back down again.

Oh, and when Jesus finally shows up, he brings the City of Enoch with him from wherever it's been for the past 5,000 years. The city will plunk back to displace the Gulf of Mexico where it was originally located. No more Gulf.

End of primer.

I'm a 5th generation mormon who left the church in my 50's.

IMO, if you have young kids, protect them from mormonism like a mama pit bull. Don't ever sign up, or sign on. Don't ever let your kids get involved. If they want to as adults, that's on them.

Mormonism not only ruined my life, but there are generations of my family that emotional train wrecks because of being mormon.

Mormonism, It's NOT about family. Don't fall for that. It's anti family and pro getting YOUR money and YOUR time, and ENERGY. The next thing you know, you're old and have nothing because the mormon church has it all, including your kids and grandkids.

Also, the mormon church has NO PROBLEM turning your kids away from you if you aren't mormon. This is why they want entire families to sign up. Your daughters will have tremendous pressure to get married asap out of HS. Your sons will have tremendous pressure to go on a mission, return home and get married in the temple right away. If you aren't a tithe paying mormon, you won't be going to any of your kids weddings. You'll either have to wait outside, or not go anywhere near it. Is that what you want?

If your kids go the mormon route, they'll also raise the grandkids to be TBM. This causes a whole new set of hurt. Little kids who are being indoctrinated to think that you're not good enough to be in heaven with them. They'll look down on you for anything you may say, do, or speak about that doesn't follow the mormon line.

My husband is currently dealing with the grandkid situation. It's beyond heart breaking. He adores those kids and their parents are slowly turning those tiny kids against him. It's just flat out evil what i've been witnessing. Please don't introduce this into your family.

I know it's difficult to be lonely, and you worry about your kids. Do your best to search out other situations that are better. I think a great option may be to get involved in some exemormon groups in your area. The exmos are some of the best of the best that have left mormonism. They will know of other outlets to help you and your kids to build friendships and a social life without being sucked into a cult for what could be generations. At the very least, think of your grandkids.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2016 01:08AM by madalice.

Uh, yeah this too. The free lunch being offered most likely isn't worth the hurling you'll be doing later.

Hi Betty.....
Let me explain: Doctrinally, the LDS faith embraces a completely different God. It's NOT just a difference in the Trinity, as you seem to think. Rather, their God is an exalted MAN, who has wives, grandparents, a body of flesh, and who progressed to BECOME a God! So please....do NOT accept LDS theology as Christian...it is not so!

I hope you join! It'll be fun!

What could possibly go wrong??

The feelings thing seems to be an issue for you, but feelings don't equal facts. You may have read something that touched you on a spiritual level, but had nothing to do with modern Mormon beliefs (I was going to say theology, but I'm not sure there is such a thing...the LDS church is nothing if not fluid in what it teaches).

For example, here's a BoM verse:

Moroni 10:20 - Wherefore, there must be faith; and if there must be faith there must also be hope; and if there must be hope there must also be charity.

Clearly a rip-off from the Bible, but as you can see, this is something that ANY Christian church could embrace. It might make you feel good, you might even say it makes you feel the spirit, but just because it's found in the Book of Mormon, does that mean the Mormon church is true and you should join?

Here are a couple more:

Mosiah 8:18 Thus God has provided a means that man, through faith, might work mighty miracles; therefore he becometh a great benefit to his fellow beings.
(Inspiring words for any Christian)

Alma 34:27 Yea, and when you do not cry unto the Lord, let your hearts be full, drawn out in prayer unto him continually for your welfare, and also for the welfare of those who are around you.
(Definitely good words for those of any faith)

See what I mean? Good feelings about the Book of Mormon may just be good feelings about writings that could mean something to any Christian.

I suggest you read the Doctrine and Covenants, especially Section 132 and then see how warm and fuzzy you're feeling.

At least you're wise enough to take things slow due to your loneliness clouding your judgement. But let me ask you this. If you believe in God, why do you feel alone? It can only be that you have an incorrect concept of God because with God, you can never be alone. I am alone too, but I don't feel alone. I feel a oneness with all existence. If I feel lonely, that is my ego forgetting the divinity of being. When I was a Mormon, I had my Mormon family and did the Mormon things, feeling like a stranger in a strange land. Mormons manage to create a feeling of being home, but at a very high cost. It's like buying plastic flowers.

Pros?
Cons?

I know there will be wildly different opinions on this. IMO, if there is a need. Some benefit with being part of the church. Then I say go for it.

IMO, it's not real. There is ample reason NOT to participate because when you have fake junk shoveled your direction. Is it worth being a part of?


For example.

Look up Paul H. Dunn. Very inspiration talks. And I felt the spirit. I REALLY did. It was incredible. There was only one small problem.

It wasn't real either. You can google it. Seems he was 'punished' by the church for it according to the newspapers. For making it ALL up! And yet, I still 'felt the spirit'. Interesting how you can feel the spirit and it's all awesome when someone is lying through his teeth.

The point is. How can you feel a burning in your bosom when it's all B.S.? This is only one small example of why I say it's not real. People can believe anything and have a spiritual experience. I'm not trashing on it. We all need those experiences. It can help us grow.

Personally I enjoyed studying the Bible and Book of Mormon. It's helped give me what I needed. The only problem will be when my kids start doing the Temple Weddings thing. After that? There is nothing else that can be done for punishing me for talking like this. Except maybe getting excommunicated. And that will just be another blessing :-)

After all. Even that Temple junk isn't real.

I personally am an Atheist (Atheist means open minded not devil worshiper or heathen) I have no issues with people believing in a god or gods. I respect everyone’s beliefs. However with all that I have seen, heard and been exposed to in regards to Mormon "religion" I would honestly tell you to go with another option. Mormonism carries all the earmarks of a cult and loves to control its members in every aspect of their lives. You will spend a HUGE amount of time doing "deeds" for the church in your spare time in addition to the 10% of the income that is mandatory. Moreover you miss a day of church get sick, break a leg, need to take care of a loved one, etc there will be no understanding from them. That’s just to scratch the surface. I urge you to look into the history of the church and its past. You will have second thoughts when the name Joseph smith, Kinderhook plates, and the churches sudden change of heart about allowing blacks in their churches circa 1978 are mentioned.

The LDS church works extremely hard to LOOK good. That's why it seems so attractive. And it works, for awhile. But year by year, like insidious vines working their way around an oak tree, their manipulations get into your head and mindfuck you and your family. Those of us who have lived through decades of this know that ripping away those layers of manipulation was very painful, but very important to our healing process. Some wounds will never heal, like broken family relationships with Mormons who now shun us because we aren't Mormon anymore. Is a bit of loneliness not worth avoiding our decades and lifetimes of pain? I would advise moving any day before joining the LDS church.

It's like you're asking a bunch of recovered former heroin addicts why you and your children shouldn't get addicted to heroin, since it seems so good at the start. You can't know the magnitude of what you're asking us. There's no way we can even explain it to you with words alone. All you can do is imagine the pain we've been through, and how much we would prefer no one had to go through it again.

One thing I can say, is that in my opinion, breaking both your arms and legs is probably less painful than a lifetime of dealing with the LDS church. That's a comparison. That's because spiritual and emotional pain, where your soul is stolen by a deceptively unethical religion and your heart ripped in two by your family, is far less painful than extreme physical pain.

Let a fellow Georgian warn you- you will regret joining, casually attending or even discussing the theology of the LDS. There are non-LDS families with thinking,caring adults with kids. Seek one out, then another then another.

Your kids need your support and dogged protection. Even with this, the influence on a teen in that environment can be tenacious. You may be able to remain neutral yourself perhaps not your children.

Best Wishes from North Georgia

Gatorman
8-4
10-3

I have never been a Mormon, but I did move from the Western United States to the Eastern United States, and I was extremely lonely. It really takes several years to establish yourself and feel truly at home in a new community. True friendships develop over time, rarely overnight. You did not say how long you have lived in this new area, but perhaps you need to be more patient with yourself. Take time to develop real friendships rather than quickly jumping into a community that will not support your deeply held religious beliefs.

You want to walk into a perfect community. It won't happen.

You have to work at finding and building community. No one will do it for you although mormons will try to convince you they have what you need. They don't. They only treat newcomers well until they are immersed in the church culture, then they back off and expect that person to give tithing dollars and free labor.

The moral atmosphere is a sham. Don't count on it.

The Doctrine and C. is the book that requires polygamy and negates much of the Bible. You need to do a thorough study of it before you consider joining.

Once you join, you'll feel increased pressure to conform and if you try to walk away, you'll be hounded. You say other churches don't visit and you are right. But this can be a problem if you want to leave. Even now, if you tell them you want to wait or check out other churches, mormons are likely to start calling and showing up to try to force you to blindly stick with them.

Joining a church because of vague feelings over reading a bit of their material is not a good idea. Face the facts. You don't believe much of their doctrine and they are hiding the most alarming parts from you.

It's up to you if you want to join based on superficial criteria like age and temporary friendliness.

But here's what might work better for you and your children. Find other churches to check out. I'm sure there must be a couple within driving range that would suit your needs better. It will take work and time to find it however.

Also, try harder to find other non-religious groups which would interest you and your children. Church is not the only way to make friends. There are sports clubs, music lessons, scouting, neighborhood watch groups and school volunteer programs which might offer opportunities for socialization.

Children should not be asked to pretend to falsely believe in a church. No church should require dishonesty. No one should join a church promising to pay tithing if they don't mean it or pretending to believe the doctrine if it doesn't ring true. Dishonesty is not part of a good moral environment.

There are lots of things in life that have pros and cons, only the Mormon church is not one of them. It's only cons, which is also a play on words because it's a scam, a giant con-job, made to drain you of time and wit, but especially of money. It benefits only a couple hundred people at the top. Wait. That sounds like it's a pyramid scheme, or something. Because it IS a pyramid scheme.

It's not just a con-job, but a con-job following a known and convicted conman.

The Book of Mormon--if you squint real hard from about 10 feet away--can possibly make you feel good. But again, it is a fraud. It is made up, and was originally intended to make a couple of people a few bucks (about $600, in fact) back after publication. No one expected it to be the cornerstone of a fraudulent religion. NO one--NO one--actually believes in the BoM anymore, even among the most active members, except for those few who are just a tad nutty. Even your missionaries don't really believe, and I'd bet you your paycheck that they have yet to read it themselves.

Having not had the time (yet) to read all the comments - and I know there are some great ones - I offer one solution, if all else fails and you feel you must convert: attend!

Again, and again... and again...

Decide for yourself. Take as long as you wish. MOST wish they had not bowed to the pressure - and rather listened their soul (or never been born into it or pressured by their family to be forced to decide at 8, without really wanting to, but to please those around them) - but rather attended, listening or not, and waited to make a decision.

It it is "true", it can wait. Why the pressure? Consciousness may get the best of you. That's what you want. WAIT. What's the hurry? Look at it from 360°. Not one sided.

Henry David Thoreau said, "Man cannot look at nature directly. He must look at it with the corner, and side of his eye."

Be prepared. Be informed. "Make happiness, don't look for it" (me).