Posted by:
Nightingale
(
)
Date: August 26, 2016 02:13PM
What summer said about comparing JWs and Mormons. I should know. I was a seeker as a young teen and met a lovely JW family, the only people to take me seriously in my search and "teach" me about the Bible and God. Naturally, I ended up getting baptized and was a JW for 7 years - until I started questioning and then they went from friends to not-so-friendly in a NY minute. They had tried to separate me from my family which was the last straw for me in my already doubting mind (their reality didn't match up to the "paradise" they preached. I tend to be very literal, a trait that has never entirely settled down. I accept, obviously, that life is no paradise for most of us, but when they preach that it is, as long as you stick with them, and then it isn't, I have a hard time with that; if you preach it, make it so).
However, due to my literal mind that paired with a strong belief in the overriding need to know and understand - and accept - doctrine, and due to an EV friend who heavily emphasized doctrine (to persuade me out of the JWs and into his fundamentalist Brethren church, which worked), I have always focused on doctrine rather than any other feature of a church. I have to believe in it to preach it, iow. I don't go just for the good coffee after the service on a Sunday or for the study groups or classes I enjoy.
As summer says, there is a close fit between being JW and Mormon (although many exmos opine that the WatchTower (JW) is way worse; imho, not).
I have learned, from reading people here for years, that looking at other faiths and groups and beliefs, and seeing their shortcomings more easily than those of your own, can be wildly and usefully informative.
Check out the origins of the WatchTower Society, Betty. A man named Russell (like a man named Joseph Smith). Russell was had up in court on charges of cheating or fraud (I forget the details now). The Society eventually favoured (and wrote) their own "translation" of the Bible (very subtlely altering a few key verses to change the interpretation of doctrine; meanwhile JWs think they are using the KJV). They are run by a central committee, like the LDS. Authoritarian. Restrictive. Men only in leadership roles (for instance, when holding a Bible study with a man who was not yet a JW, I still had to cover my head, in acknowledgement that I was adopting a teaching role that would ordinarily be taken by a male and worse, that the man I was teaching would be "above" me when he was baptized. Also, when women take part in the weekly JW "school" meeting - learning how to preach - the women are not allowed to stand at the pulpit - they don't call it that, too churchy - but must be speaking to each other on stage, not directly to the audience, etc).
I once saw the leaders strong arm a man and a woman of mature age at the beginning of a meeting because they had been seen at a movie together. Gasp. His wife had died and he was painfully lonely. Her husband had left her and moved to a different Canadian province, living with another woman, because he couldn't stand that she had become a JW. He was never coming back. But to the leaders, she was still married and hence it was a massive sin for this couple to "date", although they were certainly old enough and mature enough to make their own choices. No choices with the JWs, the leaders make your decisions for you.
No advanced education for JWs. Armageddon is coming, your career choices will be passe then (for instance, I wanted to be a nurse - nope - "we won't need nurses after Armageddon"). Many JW men are real estate agents - good money; make your own schedule.
Push to marry young (as someone mentioned above re LDS).
Etc.
The details aren't even essential, unless you're seriously studying every last one to come up with a decision, if that's your style. It's just enough to check out a different but similar group, where it's often easier to be objective and see the flaws. If you are feeling warm towards Mormonism it is easy to overlook things you don't like (or won't when you come to face them) and emphasize more the things you do. As others have said, things change once you are baptized. The friendship part is not deep and lasting. The expectation factor rises sharply. No love. No fun. Ask not what the church can do for you (and your kids), ask what YOU can do (and do and do and do and do) for the church. They seek to control your every movement, from how to practice their beliefs to what you do at home and how you spend your weekend.
The worst aspect for me as an EV-leaning Christian (even though I chose to get baptized LDS) was NO EASTER. You can say that was just the ward I attended. I don't think so. On my third Easter in the church, STILL no mention of Jesus, it was three short, uninspiring talks by 18-19 yr olds waiting to go on their mission. I was obviously upset, feeling that I had "missed Easter" (again, and compared to how mainstream Christian churches observe the entire time period of Good Friday to Easter Monday). An LDS sister missionary found me in the hallway, not happy, and asked me "Why does Easter mean so much to you?" {{choke}} If you have to ask, you don't get it! (as a Christian)
Reading your other post, Betty, I am so surprised to read this one. More later, if you want, and I can get back to it (should be working!) I would say, bottom line, if you want to try it for yourself, OK, but maybe don't get baptized (although they will continue to exert unholy pressure on you to get dunked - ask yourself why - they want you before you change your mind). However, seriously consider that you will be exposing your kids to their doctrines and practices and although you may think you can control that, you cannot. In future, you may decide to leave but by then your kids may be hopelessly trapped.
Oh, another bottom line: I also felt "something" that they kept telling me was "the Spirit". I can't explain what it actually was. It misdirected me in any case. And if you have questions and the missionaries do nothing but plug in a video - run! I didn't realize it at the time but this is the response they are taught to give - no talk, no teaching, just church-produced feel-good videos to "help you feel the Spirit" and they believe/teach that once you feel that feeling your questions/doubts will dissipate and you will go along like a little lamb to the font, the endless meetings, the exhausting expectations, the tithing, the temple, the supposed do-good stuff, the visit-teaching, the toilet cleaning (like you don't get enough of that at home), the gardening (when you don't have time to do your own), etc etc etc in an endless loop. Mormon Paradise - no thanks!
There's more. But that's two bottom lines so far so I'll stop now. Please keep reading. Don't just look at the opinions here and make a choice. Be on guard that when you feel warm towards something you are more inclined to choose with your heart instead of your mind.
As a mainstream Christian (OK, third bottom line) and having the beliefs about "salvation" that you do, you will surely miss these two core Christian doctrines in the Mormon Church. They are not there. You may not realize how much they form part of your Christian identity until they are completely absent from studies, meetings, books, talks that you and your children will be attending/reading.
Don't base a decision this important on feelings!
I don't mean to say that Mormons aren't Christians - I knew at least that some that are, at least in how they explain Jesus and salvation and their understanding of it and how it affects their beliefs and lives. This decision of yours is not based on that. It's about the corporation of the Mormon Church itself, not its mass of people, and about the top leaders and how they conduct themselves and how that affects the LDS members.
I have often read here the negative opinion of JWs and how much worse the WatchTower Society is than the Mormon Church. Not true, in my experience. The main reason why, for me, is that the JWs want you to know what they believe and what they expect of a member before you join. They don't even want you if you don't know all the doctrine and live every principle, before baptism. In my experience, and looking back over my time in the Mormon Church, and reading all the stories here of born-in-church exmos, it's THE LIES that kill. Missionaries are actually taught to LIE to investigators, and that's just the start. We know JS and BY lied as did, and do, many other Mormon leaders. They will say anything to get you into the font and to keep you in the fold.
And then there's the Big Change. Once you are baptized, no more friendly faces, just demands, in my experience. I did not have a good baptism experience and it didn't really get much better from then on. Every single Mormon I tried to talk to me about it, even including the bishop who was actually quite a nice man, said the same phrase over and over and over: "You got baptized" (equivalent to "you signed the lease, now you've got to stay in this flea-bitten basement suite for the duration"). YOU. You're the responsible party, no matter how much they lie or seek to deceive or whatever they want to call it. They actually think lying is OK. Shocking to me still. Look up The Noble Lie. Look up Pious Fraud. Mormon leaders love it. Teach it. Live it.
Yes, I sound bitter. But it's not just for me. It's for all those who have been hurt by the Big Lie. And all those who have been seduced by it.
By all means, go to meetings if you want. Just don't rush into baptism. But first, think of your children. The most important imprinting time in their lives is when they are young. One sentence, one thought, one principle, one doctrine, one teacher, one friendly kid, can say something to them or have them participate in something (like camp) that will affect their lives forever, for good or ill. You be the imprinter. But please God, you will also allow your kids the space to hear all sides to a question, to discover the world, to learn widely, to seek and to grow.
Good luck!